I just pugged a Tempest Spine....

[English_Warrior]

I love it....so many noobs...so little clue... its a hilarious clustershag from start to finish.

Im almost disappointed when that particular gem goes smoothly.

[NinjaCereal]

Ah the Tempest Spine, what memories...

I have also found that it's either hit of miss. Though unlike Abbot and other high level quests, the misses can be rather hilarious... You either get a smooth run, or a fail so spectacular all you can do is laugh.
Pug groups for TS just have a higher chance of failing than most quests because it's f2p

And if you EVER see a pug for a 'Naked TS run', drop whatever you're doing and join it.

Seriously.

[Dakotahorn]

player1: 'I'll get the runes!'
*Ding* player1 has died.
player1: OMG, I'm lost! Someone get me out of the lava!
player2: I'm coming! Where'd you die?
player1: By the rez shrine!
player2: I don't see you!
*Ding* player2 has died
player3: I'm coming! Where'd you die?
...
...

That was all I read.... ZOMG holy Jeebus! I laughed so hard My GF who was asleep woke and started yelling at me for being a nerd.

Time to play the forum game and +1 you sir

[Razcar]

As someone else said, Tempest Spine is the shore where all bad builds and ideas of the first ten levels of DDO eventually wash up.

[jillie]

I remember going into a semi-guild run on my wizzie. It was elite, she was lvl 9 in her first life. There was a sorc there bragging about his 43 (!) hitpoints - at level 10, and how his awesome spell points made up for it. He never did use up a full blue bar; the only times he shrined, it was for a res. My wizzie, though, did enough casting that the party completed without too many deaths.

I have to agree, it's one of the most fun raids in the game. I think that's because there's no epicable loot that drops, and AFAIK, there's no 20th completion bonus, so nobody takes it too seriously. Chronoscope, while a very well made raid, just doesn't have the fun factor. I keep my toons on timer for it, more or less, and recently led it on hard. Amazing what getting one-shotted by an Abashai Sky Raider does for the egos of those who want to zerg off away from the party (level for the group was like 7 - 9). But it's taken more seriously, I think largely because of the OP loot (can you say Charged Gauntlets? Sure you can ...), and because it's p2p.

TS remains one of my fave quests.

[asphodeli]

I remember Tempest's Spine as the only quest that kept giving me serious lag back when DDO just got re-launched...Thank goodness after Update 1 the lag went away.

[rodallec]

was just puggin a TS when i alt tabbed to find this gem!
/pikeonwhilereading

[Nich]

Okay, let me point out few things for you:

Oh I did. I seemed to spend a lot of time sitting at locked doors waiting for the rest of the group...

So you rushed and left the newbies behind? Poor form. Were you a good teamplayer, you would have stick with them and point them in the right direction.

player1: 'I'll get the runes!'
*Ding* player1 has died.
player1: OMG, I'm lost! Someone get me out of the lava!
player2: I'm coming! Where'd you die?
player1: By the rez shrine!
player2: I don't see you!
*Ding* player2 has died
player3: I'm coming! Where'd you die?
...
...

So the newbies, despite the fact that they didnt know the quest, acted as a team, letting no one behind, and dying trying to rescue their party members. And you? Ah yes, waiting by the locked doors.

They might be newbies for now, but they have the spirit to become great players, they just lack knowledge and gears. You, however, since you are lacking the teamplay part, will remain a noob, with gear ^^

[AndyD47]

I love Tempest Spine so hard,I was bound and determined to figure it out since my absolute first run through was horrible.
Tried to heal through it on a cleric that was both literally and figuratively broke,got cussed out when I didn't wand whip 11 people,and rage quitted at some point when I got lost.

That first run taught me everything I needed to know about Con/fort/cleric blame,can't buy that kind of knowledge (at) a university.

But,TS became my favorite quest,and I really like giving/hearing the running commentary.

Also really good for collecting coins during a risia event.

Edit:Missed a word.

[k1ngp1n]

Lame attempt at trolling

I wouldn't rush to conclusions if I were you....

[Deathdefy]

My favourite TS run ever completed pretty smoothly after a bumpy start.

As I was running up the final ramp in House J, the party starts getting annihilated -

A few red bars drop violently, then half the part is dead, with the other half waiting outside on full health.

Party Leader: What happened?
Enraged noob 1: Someone aggro'd a fire ele!
Guilty noob 1: I wanted to see if fire elementals took damage from this <+1 Flaming Throwing Axe>

[k1ngp1n]

I love Tempest Spine so hard,I was bound and determined to figure it out since my absolute first run through was horrible.
Tried to heal through it on a cleric that was both literally and figuratively broke,got cussed out when I didn't wand whip 11 people,and rage quitted at some point when I got lost.

That first run taught me everything I needed to know about Con/fort/cleric blame,can't buy that kind of knowledge (at) a university.

But,TS became my favorite quest,and I really like giving/hearing the running commentary.

Also really good for collecting coins during a risia event.

Edit:Missed a word.

The quest is indeed a ton of fun. My question on this thread, really, is where is this lack of knowledge perpetuating, and do we do anything about it? I haven't pugged in months, but for some reason yesterday I wanted to go back to one of my old favorites. I offered repeatedly to assist them when it became apparent they were struggling, but I was definitely not pro enough, after all. No, the level 62 guild guy was obviously better... you're only guild level 46.

Where is the chains of effective dissemination of game play experience and knowledge? Is there no method by which newer players get to even see experienced players?

[mws2970]

Players should be trying to learn from whatever sources they can so they can become better. DDO has a lot of good resources for learning about the game. There are many experienced players in the game who are more than willing to take the time and teach newer players as well. The information is there, if people want to find it.

Even more important, in my opinion, is having fun. It's only a game.

[TasteTester]

I love doing PUG TS since it's like the others say, almost always either fast and smooth as silk, or an absolutely hilarious catastrophe. Either works for me

In my observation you'll know which it will be at Fire and Ice. This is the test. Will this group finish or not? You'll find out right then, yessir!

[Darkrok]

Everyone should PuG TS on a weekly basis...keeps you sharp.

I just did one late last night. Elite run levels 11-14 (so we took a 10% xp hit). I'm almost done with level 14 on my first TR so figured I'd get this one last TS in before I outleveled it.

Things start very smoothly...everyone manages to make the run to the cave. I'm playing on my 9paladin/3monk/2rogue healing amp build...set up my bar for intimidate and run a bit ahead, locking down each group after self-buffing to a meaningful ac and making sure to have death ward up as well as my silver flame necklace. We're easily moving through the quest.

First sign of trouble is the construct before fire & ice. Someone runs on to the platform with only 5 people in the room. No big deal...we win easily. We head down and knowing that I'm the least likely to die I offer to pull ice. Of course, my sense of direction is terrible (I ended up in the wrong state once on the way to my long-time job) and that extends into MMO's apparently...I manage to get a yellow alert while pulling ice. No big deal, don't take any damage, we kill ice, run down and kill fire, no big whoop.

Now this is where it gets interesting. A few people got confused and stayed in Fire & Ice but didn't say they were lost. One guy died in the lava in Fire & Ice (his third death...his first came when zerging through the first trap...his second came by zerging ahead of me and getting his butt kicked by a group of 4 giants) but didn't know where he was other than "I'm in lava" and didn't even say that for a couple minutes after he died (instead he started insulting people). We get spread out a bit and somehow still have a yellow alert when everyone meets up at the door to the room with the shrine, the big fight, and several named that comes after the lava trap.

Now up to this point things were still going decently smoothly. Someone had disarmed the lava trap without warning and there were a few deaths to that but we rez'd those people. We had 11 people (everyone but the guy dead in the lava in fire & ice) at the door. It had been a very smooth run to that point other than the yellow alert that was still persisting and the short period where we were spread out. So I leave the other 10 people behind to go pick up the dead guy, confident in my ability to solo down to there and save him. It didn't occur to me that I wasn't the one that I should be worried about in that situation.

Here's an approximate transcript of what transpired:
Arcane who'd been leading raid for the most part: "Alright everyone...shield-block the door and I'll firewall them."
***someone opens the door***
Mobs: Ouch...ouch...ouch (still standing in the firewall)
Arcane: THEY GOT THROUGH!
Arcane: ***ding***
Other Arcane: ***ding***
Squishy Rogues: ***ding***
Everyone without Heal spell: ***ding***
Everyone with Heal spell: ***ding***
Me: Just hold tight everyone...I'll come back and get you guys back up and then go get [name redacted to protect the obnoxious]
[Name Redacted] (who happens to be dead in the lava in Fire & Ice): You #*@! all suck!

So I begin working on the two named and the mess of other stuff that had been pulled all over the place in the tunnels. My build is good but it's a survivability/tanking build...its dps is ok but certainly not earthshattering. It takes me a good 10 minutes or so to clear out all the trash that has been pulled, during which I'm not reading group chat at all. There were a few points where things got ugly (got danced twice, dispelled countless times, had to time my smites/sac's to take down the casters, bust out the heal scrolls while running away, etc). It wasn't extremely hard but it's probably the hardest thing I'd attempted to solo up to that point on this toon.

So I'm finally wrapping up on the last couple mobs in the big room and start reading group chat again. A couple people (including [Name Redacted]) have already left group. Apparently the group didn't believe that I could clear to them because while I've been clearing the room they've all recalled but haven't zoned back in yet. Someone says in group chat at that point, "Is someone still in?". I answer, "Yes, 2 chests are clear and heading to clear out a third now". One person dropped group at that point because they didn't want the xp hit...I was fine with that and would have been fine if they'd left me in there and reformed as well. Everyone else decided they wanted to go on and zoned back in. By this time I'd cleared to the golem in the water and once everyone was in I popped that chest. Ran back to get the others and allowed everyone to catch up and they actually passed me and cleared most of the beholder room before I got there. Once everyone was back in it was a smooth run.

Honestly though, this was a great learning experience for me. On the snarky side I learned that a smooth run can be because of one person - especially if that person is intimidating the trash with the survivability to do so - and that if you have any inkling that you're that one person then you have to tell the raid to wait if you go back to retrieve someone's stone - even if you think they 'should be able to handle it without you'. On the serious side though it was an opportunity to push my character a bit farther than I probably would have otherwise. I tend to play it safe to a fault simply due to the risk-reward involved and would never have attempted that solo on elite. I'd like to say that I'd learned the right path through Fire & Ice too but that'll never happen.

[mws2970]

Great story, dark! +1

[Paleus]

Pugging Tempest Spine is fun and easy. All it involves is you, the presumably skilled player, actually taking charge and leading. It's one thing to be a good player all self-contained and solo oriented while you watch and mock other players ineptitude. It's another thing to learn how to effectively lead people who are new to a quest. I think you'll enjoy pugging Tempest Spine a lot more if you play it like a training mission for you, teaching you how to lead a raid group rather than just another low level loot run.

Some things you may want to work on

1) Quickly identify who knows what they are doing and who doesn't. Delegate tasks where necessary to these people.

2) Identify who doesn't know what they are doing. Make sure these people know not to touch things they dont understand (a lever of flamey death for instance), grab quest items (the runes) or lag too far behind the group. Be ready to give them a backpack ride when necessary. When they screw up, let them know it, politely, but make sure they understand there are consequences for their uninformed actions.
I place bets on the lever pull in party chat and mention new people shouldn't pull things they don't understand. I make a light-hearted joke when some noob goes ahead and pulls the lever and let them know thats why they don't do things they don't understand. It might not be a best solution, but I think it acts as a learning experience.

3) Reign in lone wolf know-it alls or let them do their own thing to speed up the quest or get themselves killed. Some people will zerg ahead, those that can hack will be able to, those that can will die. Put them in your backpack with the others. Remember, you're the leader, project your authority when necessary, while not being annoying about it.

4) Make sure the party knows what is needed at important points and keep them on the same game plan. If you want to pull the ice and rush fire, make sure everyone does that. This is where lone wolves can screw you up if they decide their game-plan is better and everyone starts operating on different strategies. Everyone following the same mediocre strategy is better than people doing six different strategies, each individually ok but collectively suicidal.

I'm not the best leader, but these are a few of the things I concentrate on and I've had successful and rewarding pug experiences. They aren't flawless victories, but that's ok in my book.

[k1ngp1n]

Story

Good story, and sounds like a fun as hell run.

[Darkrok]

Good story, and sounds like a fun as hell run.

It was though unfortunately there were a few people - [Name Redacted] and a couple others - that got very bent out of shape that there was a wipe. Other than those few moments of some ugly behavior everyone had fun!

[Nich]

I wouldn't rush to conclusions if I were you....

Well, your post made fun of newbies, yet you didn't mention that you tried to help them in any ways. Ah yes, you did, after being called out.