Remove WC bonus to Inspire Courage - Opinions?

[Aashrym]

doesn't need to be 5/-, just needs to be 5 (or more) / something the other guy can't break.

so for example, invulnerability? not all that hard to get, available at level 4, useful until about level 10ish. stoneskin? available in scroll form at level 5, in spell form at level 7 or 8. hammerblock, spearblock, axeblock? not all that hard to find. barbarians will have some simply from class levels, warforged can have 4/adamantine innate from enhancements + armor feat, bloodrage symbiont is available at level 7 (albeit with drawbacks and is somewhat rare)... not that hard to get really. you can just find 5 dr on vendor trash. i suppose if you're deliberately comparing people who have crappy gear, you might have something. or if you're comparing people who normally don't bother with defense. i suppose if i knew i was going to be in a static group with a warchanter, i might not bother developing DR from other sources. but i don't think that applies to most people as a general rule.

It's true that DR5 isn't hard to come by but at that level a song for DR5 everything to the party is useful and cheap. It just doesn't stay that way as everyone out-levels it. That's a reason why I would not take the inspire courage bonus away. It's useful from lvl 6 to lvl 20 and not much else is really significant for war chanters. Yet anyway. I have hopes for tier III.

[Stitch78]

doesn't need to be 5/-, just needs to be 5 (or more) / something the other guy can't break.

so for example, invulnerability? not all that hard to get, available at level 4, useful until about level 10ish. stoneskin? available in scroll form at level 5, in spell form at level 7 or 8. hammerblock, spearblock, axeblock? not all that hard to find. barbarians will have some simply from class levels, warforged can have 4/adamantine innate from enhancements + armor feat, bloodrage symbiont is available at level 7 (albeit with drawbacks and is somewhat rare)... not that hard to get really. you can just find 5 dr on vendor trash. i suppose if you're deliberately comparing people who have crappy gear, you might have something. or if you're comparing people who normally don't bother with defense. i suppose if i knew i was going to be in a static group with a warchanter, i might not bother developing DR from other sources. but i don't think that applies to most people as a general rule.

Don't overreact. I didn't say DR5/- was ubersup3rLeetDOOD.

Barbs get it, sure. And can boost it WAY above 5. "Invulnerability" however stops being invulnerable by lvl 8 or so. Hammer/spear/axe only block 1 type of damage and leave you open to the rest. WF can burn a feat to get DR2/adamantine but I think almost nobody takes it (casters can't because of spell failure/barbs and FVS don't because of other DR). Stoneskin is a different animal - once its burned off its gone. Sorc's will never carry and wizzies rarely carry it either, as there are more temping spells at that level. I think most players get to levl 15 before anyone casts stonekin on them. Bloodrage Sym. Lol. Good catch.

[Jaid314]

Don't overreact. I didn't say DR5/- was ubersup3rLeetDOOD.

Barbs get it, sure. And can boost it WAY above 5. "Invulnerability" however stops being invulnerable by lvl 8 or so. Hammer/spear/axe only block 1 type of damage and leave you open to the rest. WF can burn a feat to get DR2/adamantine but I think almost nobody takes it (casters can't because of spell failure/barbs and FVS don't because of other DR). Stoneskin is a different animal - once its burned off its gone. Sorc's will never carry and wizzies rarely carry it either, as there are more temping spells at that level. I think most players get to levl 15 before anyone casts stonekin on them. Bloodrage Sym. Lol. Good catch.

invulnerability is pretty decent past 8, ime. i've seen it work for most things up until around 10. spear/axe/hammerblock can be combined to effectively get dr vs everything, though it's more likely you'll only have it for maybe 1 or 2 of the 3. stoneskin, shockingly enough, can be cast a second time, and as i said is available in scroll form at level 5. it's one of my first level 4 sorcerer spells typically (after fire wall) unless i am scrolling it, and it stays on almost all the time. will i be putting it on everyone? no, but that's still typically 1-2 people in the average party that won't be needing DR 5. fast forward a few more levels, and as DR becomes more and more common the buff becomes less and less relevant. it just really isn't all that awesome. it's an ok buff, it certainly doesn't make up for the always-relevant abilities of the other PrEs, which at the very least add in stuff that can't be gained other ways (for example, spellsinger 10% discount that stacks with pretty much every other discount i've seen, or virtuoso's extended songs which at least always has a use)

DR 5 is not hard to get early on, it gets even easier as you go up levels, and it's just not that exciting.