tactic's advice please

[Havok.cry]

My main is an elf kensai arcane archer. I solo alot. because of soloing my natual inclanation is to kite ALOT (as in everything) so first i would like to apologize to everyone who i have annoyed while doing this in a party.

With all my feats geared toward ranged combat, what can i do instead of kiteing?
Standing still doesn't seem to work too well because (it seems) healers decide i'm not a main tank and will not heal me until battle is over. I unfortunately do not have UMD so i can't cast heal scrolls, but i do always carry pots.

What can i do without lowering my dps to draw less aggro? It seems only intimidate can hold aggro against me while i have multishot active. Also i tend to shoot things before melee gets to them... not sure this is bad tho cause it gets parties to move on rather than stand around waiting for someone else to do something.

When i join a party more often than not it is a pug so i want to be the best i can with out being a detriment to the group, please offer any advice

[dogonovo]

The thing is that nobody likes chasing monsters around a kiting archer, its the same with Fearsome armor. Those are much more effective when you are solo. What I can suggest is to try to wait a little bit before starting shooting things. I really dont mind running with archers at all, but when said archer is always the first to hit anything in a dungeon, and they dont have the firepower to bring it down before all the party needs to start chasing it, then it gets really annoying, really fast. Another tip is that as an archer you probably have Point Blank Shot, that increases damage and to-hit when you are within 30ft from the enemy. Stick closer to the melees, when the monster sees them and comes for them, stop moving, after the first melee swing, shoot away. You contributed to damage just like everyone else, and no one had to chase a darned Troll running AND throwing triple swings in the air.

My 2 copper pieces for what they are worth.

[Calebro]

Standing still doesn't seem to work too well because (it seems) healers decide i'm not a main tank and will not heal me until battle is over.

That's probably not why they don't heal you.

Also i tend to shoot things before melee gets to them...

It's probably because of that.

When things run past me to get the archer, I let them go. He's on his own. I move on ahead. If he can't handle the aggro he draws, he'll be releasing and I'll be dropping him when it happens.

[Havok.cry]

first off calebro i make sure i am not pulling things past the party... i am normally at the front. second, i can handle thing alone... as i said i solo almost all the time. third... if i am at front and draw aggro off the meleeists (happens all the time unless they intimidate), then stay still so melee's don't have to chase, and you pull that ****... then your an *** **** ****, cause i was doing what i was supposed to.

i specifically said when i do not kite.. as in trying to work with the party... healers tend to still just let me die... what can i do to stop that from happening?

to dogonovo thanks for the input it was appriciated.. if thats what i have to do i will, but it seems to defeat the point of ranged combat (historically anyway, i know that games aren't the same thing)

[dogonovo]

You are welcome Havok =)

Sincerely, I gotta tell you... I play a rogue, and many many people have a very wrong idea of what a rogue is supposed to be and do. And they react accordingly (tell me to stay by the door and come when there is a trap or lock, dont engage in battles, etc). This was caused by poorly played rogues AND people's refuse to have a broader opinion even if it is spelled in 200ft tall flaming letters. To make matters worse I am not only a rogue but a Mechanic, and use a repeater x-bow (not main weapon, but I do use it quite a bit).

Archers in general suffer the same issue. After a pug-denial phase, I pug a lot now, and have to tell you that the vast majority of archers add to the bad stereotype the ranged style has. There are so many archers that shoot everything they can set their focus orb on immediately, just to bring it towards the party and kite them in LONG circles it surely looks like intentional griefing. There are times when doing this helps the party, dayum, if you are now kiting the monster that was beating your caster badly and would probably kill them if you didnt, I will wand heal you, and use a rez scroll if you die without a problem. If you are kiting the boss for a bit while the party deals with adds it is the same.

That being said I am with Calebro in a way. The second time I see an archer trying to give me a running competition, I ask them to stop, and if ignored, whatever agro they pull is theirs to handle. No you cannot have a Stoneskin from my scrolls, nor a wand wip to top up, much less a rez scroll or my own sneak attacks to bring down the monster.

What most archers also dont realise is that once you shoot a monster, he will call on his buddies nearby to come chase you. And now the archer is kiting one monster, while the party (who was typing, healing, setting spells, etc) suddenly has 5 surprise monsters at them.

Last but not least, kiting makes it that much harder for the person in charge of healing (who is primarily your job, but I digress) to be able to cast spells on you.

I am not saying you play like that, not at all. But that is the stereotype that I have to say your playing style suffers.

Ultimate suggestion, play your class well, whatever your style is, be ready to face the consequences of your fighting/play style by being over prepared, and in no time you will get invites because people will go "Ya know, lets invite that awesome dude from last party" "Wasnt he an archer?" "LIke I care, you remember how much fun it was and how efficiently we did the quest?"

Now, that is definetly more than 2 copper piece worth! ;-)

[fuzzy1guy]

As a ranger you have access to some of the best two weapon skills. For FREE!

Use them!

For a minimal investment you CAN have near max melee dps. And you CAN reach a reasonable useful AC far easier than many other characters. You CAN melee. I don't care if your icon looks like a bow.

Ranged is for a first strike / secondary / backup weapon. Or bosses only. Anywhere the rest of the team will not have to chase down the thing before it kills you.

Fine, whip out the bow when manyshot is active. But when it's not and you'll be going back to kiting. Click one button, switch to swords and join the melee mob. Things not running all over hell are way easier to kill.

Know when to turn off improved precise shot and focus on casters and other targets who won't run all over.

Consider giving up some straight damage to help out in other ways. Cursespewing(-4 to all), wounding, puncturing, slowburst, roaring(-2 to all), destruction(-4to8ac) bows. And
Paralyzer bow is awesome once you reach high enough level to use it. You can shoot all you want and not tick people off if your targets all stand still.

If you shoot at something before it has a lock on a stationary target. You had better be able to deal with it alone. Because chasing stuff around is boring, slow, and stupid. And most people won't do it. And you'd best accept that real quick or people will hate you, will drop you, and generally will let you die if it won't hurt their xp.

Play smart and people won't hate you. Kite everything and you'll be alone or dead often.

[negativeprogression]

Since a kensai aa doesnt really have much in the way of healing options you should be trying to avoid agro.

Running ahead to keep the party moving is ok, but you really dont need to pull everything aswell.

Situational awareness is key

Once the melees get agro it will take a while for the mobs to switch; wait till the fight is in progress, position yourself in the right place to hit as many as possible and then use manyshot. If you get agro run to the melee's so they can hit them, and block their path to you at the same time. Being near the melee's also means any mass heals cast on them will hit you aswell

Your solo skills are mostly non-transferrable to party play. Keep them for when everyone else dies and you need to save the day. You may still get the blame for a near wipe, but at least you cleaned up the mess aswell.

[MrLarone]

two tips if you must kite.

1) tight circles! just cos you're kiting doesn't mean you need to traverse half the known world, get this right and the melee shouldn't have to move (ok, maybe turn on the spot but that doesn't affect they're to-hit*)

2) the palm off! you may have noticed that though toons can run through other toons we can't run through mobs... and they can't run through us. kite towards and between melees so as to get the mob physically stuck on them. that might just give them enough time to claw agro off of you.

*and this is why people hate (bad) kiters, you suffer a to-hit penalty if you're moving.*

[Claransa]

Here are some tactics I've used successfully.

Invest in jump, remember you get the jump spell and use your melée as a sort of fire wall. Rather than kite them in circles jump over them dragging them through melée.

You may not have a shield but you can still block, default is the shift key. It's sometimes best to stand your ground and let the party finish them off.

Communicate. Do I range them? It don't take much typing in party chat to ask that.

Try a paralyzing bow work very nicely with imp precise shot if you target a faraway mob

[Mercureal]

Without being in your parties, it's hard to know why healers aren't healing you and hard to give advice to fix that. When you notice this happening, you should probabaly ask them openly. They may give you useful feedback, or maybe they're new and still learning the healer role.

I note one possible red flag statement in your post: "Also i tend to shoot things before melee gets to them... not sure this is bad tho cause it gets parties to move on rather than stand around waiting for someone else to do something."

This suggests that you sometimes take actions to force the party to do what you want. I may have misinterpreted the statement - but if that *is* what you do it could lead to tension in the party and annoyance from other players. Open communication before acting is always the best choice.

Secondly, speaking as someone who wanted to play all-ranged all the time when I started, you should be prepared to go into melee combat when necessary. It may take you some time to get used to that, but it will make you much more effective overall. You say that you're a kensai archer, so you may not have ranger levels. But with a high Dex and fighter bonus feats you could still likely take some of the two-weapon fighting feats. If you don't want to do that, get a few nice two-handed weapons, or even one-handed weapons and a shield. Just be prepared to put the bow away, stand with your party and go toe-toe with the monsters when needed.

[PNellesen]

@OP - Curious as to why the Clerics/FvS won't heal you - do they simply say "I don't heal Rangers", or is it something else? I'll ask the stupid question: Are you wearing Heavy Fortification? And do you take alot of damage quickly, to the point where you're at maybe 1/3 HP while everyone else is full? I play both Cleric and Ranger, and sometimes if one particular character seems to be taking way more damage than everyone else, I tend to hold off healing them until a few others have damage as well - I'll usually hit my RSII aura in a battle, and then hit melees with Mass Cures. If someone needs a quick heal they usually come bask in the glow until they top off, then they run back into the fight. As long as the person isn't doing anything really stupid (like running ahead of the rogue on Elite to find the traps for them), they will get healed.

On the flip side, when I'm playing my Ranger in a party, the ONLY time I kite things is when the arcane has a nice bonfire going, or the Cleric has BBs up. Otherwise, it's either use my paralyzer on enemy archers/casters, or else whip out my dual scimis and dance around the monster the Barb or Fighter has aggroed already. If I do start to take heavy damage, I'll pull away from the fight until I can whip a wand, drink a pot, or the healer hits me. I personally have never had any problems getting healed in a party, though - not sure what you might be doing that would be different.

[Nuralanya]

The thing is that nobody likes chasing monsters around a kiting archer

I have recently discovered the same problem with casters, while playing my Tempest ranger with a mage who insists on getting aggro and then running around because they're squishy. I get tired of swinging at thin air and pull out the bow so I can at least hit the things and try to save a life...

So the kiting issue is not just a ranger/archer thing, everyone should be aware of it. If you're a low-level caster without the firepower to finish off what you just aggroed, wait for a melee to hit it first.

To address the OPs issue as best I can - when I play my AA I either wait for the melees to start beating on something first before I open fire, or I'll stand back and pick off the casters/enemy archers in the distance while the melees deal with the closer mobs. (Having your object draw distance turned way up helps with this, especially in outdoor areas!) If something I aggro runs up to me and a melee can't intercept it, I stand still, pull out dual blades and hold it at bay until I either kill it or someone else gets there to help. (I run with guildies, so they don't often leave me to fend for myself. Although I don't always need the help, I appreciate it. PuGs will more likely take the view that 'you aggroed it, you kill it'.)

Paralyzing weapons help in both cases, both for bows and melee. And with precise shot, what melee wouldn't love a line of paralyzed mobs just waiting to be beat on? Just make sure that if you're using it, you're prepared for that whole line to come charging at you if they make their saves...

If you must kite, always kite towards the melee, blade barrier, firewall or whatever. The only exception is if you're keeping something away from the party while they heal up or deal with something else - in that case, make sure you bring it back when they're ready. In Mired in Kobolds, I kite the dragon around through blade barriers while the rest deal with the kobolds. (With a dragon bane bow and slayer arrows it's easy to keep the aggro.) Once everything else is dead, we can all beat on the dragon.

If you want to bring things over to the party by shooting before the melee gets to it, ask the party if this is acceptable. Sometimes a party will like to group at a strategic point like a doorway and have a ranger or caster bring things to that spot, but in general they won't like it if they get jumped by a bunch of things you just dragged over when they weren't prepared! That one guy you can see probably has a few friends just around the corner.

Use stat damaging bows, cursespewers, paralyzers and so on, along with the best DPS bow you can find. Have several sets of the best melee weapons you can get on hand, for when things get too close, and use them. We don't get to hit things over the head with a bow like enemy rangers do to us... (That always makes me laugh.) If you have Manyshot and/or Slaying arrows, you can and will pull aggro off someone else so be prepared for it.

I don't know why casters aren't healing you. I can only assume they think you're being an idiot by pulling aggro, and they probably think you're squishy. They may be wrong on both counts, but if that's the impression they have then that could be a reason for it - if you have pots/wands and can take care of your own healing as much as possible, maybe you can show them otherwise. Like someone else said, try asking them (politely) why they don't heal you. They may just have grouped too many times with bad archers and think they are all the same.


tl,dr:

Don't pull things unless asked. Be prepared to melee whatever you pull. Pick off casters, clerics and archers while the melees are busy elsewhere - the fighters probably don't need your help unless you're going to paralyze something for them. Be self-sufficient (which you should be good at if you solo a lot). Accept that most other people dislike bow-users... it may not be fair or right, but it happens a lot.

[Havok.cry]

Thank You again Dogonovo, and Thanks also to Negativeprogresion, MrLarone, Claransa, Mercureal, and Nuralanya, all your posts had useful tips/advice. It looks like i will look for a paralizer bow... i have been underestemating how good they could be on my toon. I will also look for a tower sheild/somethingmainhanded for when i have to stand and take it.
BTW my toons favorite things in whole game from others are firewall, blade barrier and radiant servant aura.. most effieciant party i ever was in was 2AA's, a wiz, a sorc, a radiant servant, and a mechanic rogue using repeaters... it was full of kiting awesomeness and the healer never used any healing beyond the aura it was fun
Thanks again for the advice