something extremely disturbing here

[tlstar]

this post is to help new players who wish to learn and succeed at there roguish endeavors

i was talking to this new player today . helping him with his rogue build .
he told me he had read the forums and got his build from here .
i thought great... a new player who reads the forums and is willing to learn
we proceeded to talk and i asked his starting stats .

and this is where things took a disturbing turn .
he listed his stats as
str :8
dex:18
con :8
int :18
wis:10
cha:12

i flat out said that an 8 base con would not do .

he did vary his stat a bit because the build called for a halfing race and he was drow.

i can understand this as we all tweak stats based on what we want to do .

but an 8 base con will not do ever for any rogue build ever . or any build for that matter

after our conversation was over i asked him for the build link so i could see for myself what he was doing .

he gave me this link :http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Path:...Elf_Profile%29

really ddo is posting a link to a build with an 8 based con .......really omg .

"THIS IS A ROGUE PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE" never ever ever build a rogue with an 8 based con.
14 con minimum......imo

[AyumiAmakusa]

I tried telling the DDO 'whoever writes those paths' that they suck.

Unfortunately, I think the paths suck on purpose so that we'll all eventually buy hearts from the store.

[xberto]

haha... extremely disturbing? I thought you were going to share a story of a terrible car accident or someone letting their kids go hungry while playing DDO.
His con is low but its a far cry from disturbing news? Oh the drama....lol

[Lithic]

Know what's funny? My main character Star had almost those exact starting stats (16 dex since I was a human, 14 cha, 8 wis) for years, and only changed once TRing came about. Once I'm done getting all the past lives I want, I will still be starting with 8 con and 8 wis, though will likely go strength due to the massive inflation of end game mob HP.

[sirdanile]

Know what's funny? My main character Star had almost those exact starting stats (16 dex since I was a human, 14 cha, 8 wis) for years, and only changed once TRing came about. Once I'm done getting all the past lives I want, I will still be starting with 8 con and 8 wis, though will likely go strength due to the massive inflation of end game mob HP.

But... lithic... you're awesome and can handle it!

[Zansobar]

I bet if you never played quests on elite you wouldn't have too much problem with an 8 con, on a strictly range class.

[Tanka]

I bet if you never played quests on elite you wouldn't have too much problem with an 8 con, on a strictly range class.

You'd be wrong. My rogue originally had 8 Con and was ranged. He still died far too often.

[Hokonoso]

well tbh that build is a mechanic build, and a mechanic doesnt need more than 8 con as a mechanic has 0 dps and thus is not getting hit, a mechanic will never solo thus he will always be with others, so his 0 dps plus not soloing = not getting hit = not needing con

oh and 12 wis is great cause by not getting hit you can do stuff to raise your spot!!!!
/endsarcasm

a rogue needs a minimum of 12 str and con (i say minimum for the races with a penalty) that's a minimum of 6 build points in both str and con!!!! for you need power attack and you need some hp period! if your primary focus is to gimp i mean disable traps so be it, just dont gimp the party by not doing dps or staying alive while you are at it! oh and there is no maximum to how high you can get your str and con and be useful, those are not your dump stats! those are your two primary stats!!!!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

he gave me this link :http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Path:...Elf_Profile%29

really ddo is posting a link to a build with an 8 based con .......really omg .

I just reported that article for griefing...I mean seriously, that must have been written by someone who either doesn't play the game or had just quit and was trying to screw new players.

[Jaid314]

meh, i've run a (ranged) rogue with 6 strength before. it kinda sucked at low levels, what with the carrying capacity, but it's doable at higher levels when you have a +6 strength item (and ideally if you have eaten a tome or two). no need for power attack on a ranged rogue either, since it doesn't work (and you're not going to have enough to-hit in melee to want it there either). i do agree about high con though. you might be able to get by with a little less if you have, say, 3 barbarian past lifes, amazing gear, and a ridiculously high AC/saves. but then again, if i had all that stuff, i'd still take a good con score as first priority, and just be happy that i have a little bit of added toughness.

[blametroi]

but an 8 base con will not do ever for any rogue build ever . or any build for that matter

after our conversation was over i asked him for the build link so i could see for myself what he was doing .

he gave me this link :http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Path:...Elf_Profile%29

really ddo is posting a link to a build with an 8 based con .......really omg .

"THIS IS A ROGUE PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE" never ever ever build a rogue with an 8 based con.
14 con minimum......imo

Good source for me when I started build hunting was http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660

Good explanations, imo.

[locus]

I just reported that article for griefing...I mean seriously, that must have been written by someone who either doesn't play the game or had just quit and was trying to screw new players.

Errr.. isn't that not a user written guide but the _official_ path for drow elf mechanic? So that would be Turbine trying to screw new players

[Hokonoso]

Good source for me when I started build hunting was http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660

Good explanations, imo.

sucks that for all the rogue paths they lead new players to believe you dont want a starting str of MAX and that you want to put level ups into dex.... back in the day before rages and madstones a rogue went finesse cause his/her to-hit was so low and dex was easier to raise giving a higher to hit, but now finesse builds hit much less often than str builds since you can raise your str so much higher than your dex now, people need to get with the times, you only need 15 dex (+2 tome) for a rogue, you dont need any skill ups in dex, and you dont need any enhancements towards dex...

verdict: all those builds fail, max str period, 16 if halfling, 18 if others, 20 if half-orc, no exceptions!!!!

[Riorik]

well tbh that build is a mechanic build, and a mechanic doesnt need more than 8 con as a mechanic has 0 dps and thus is not getting hit, a mechanic will never solo thus he will always be with others, so his 0 dps plus not soloing = not getting hit = not needing con

He will, however, need to run into active traps to disable some of them. Not having the hitpoints to take even a single hit is dangerous.

It is, of course, amusing that anybody would assume in a game built around combat that you would not be involved...in combat. Low hitpoints is always bad.

[Templarion]

I just reported that article for griefing...I mean seriously, that must have been written by someone who either doesn't play the game or had just quit and was trying to screw new players.

Excellent idea. I reported it, too.

[Jaid314]

sucks that for all the rogue paths they lead new players to believe you dont want a starting str of MAX and that you want to put level ups into dex.... back in the day before rages and madstones a rogue went finesse cause his/her to-hit was so low and dex was easier to raise giving a higher to hit, but now finesse builds hit much less often than str builds since you can raise your str so much higher than your dex now, people need to get with the times, you only need 15 dex (+2 tome) for a rogue, you dont need any skill ups in dex, and you dont need any enhancements towards dex...

verdict: all those builds fail, max str period, 16 if halfling, 18 if others, 20 if half-orc, no exceptions!!!!

dex is still a worthwhile investment for several builds. i will agree you should focus on strength for a melee rogue, but dex isn't something you should entirely ignore either. on a mechanic repeater build, strength is not nearly as important. on an acrobat QS build, you get to add dexterity to damage as well. on all rogues, you get to add it to your reflex save, which is not a bad thing to invest in. it helps with your balance skill as well, which means you can invest fewer skill points to get the necessary +15 bonus. depending on build, it may even be useful for AC.

also, i'm not a fan of maxing *any* stat on a rogue. you want to have good strength on a melee rogue, you need to have good con, you need to have fairly good dex, and you want reasonable int and cha (and if you didn't want all that other stuff so bad, you'd probably want wis for will saves too). maxing strength is a really big investment, and i disagree that you should focus so much on it unless you've got more than a 32 point build, and even then... well, like i said, there's a lot of stats you want, and those last 2 points are extremely expensive to get.