Damage Count

[TitoJ]

Nice try to save face. You talk about # of swing in terms of DPS and think I need the sit down.
Someone is delusional.

You talk like timing a boss fight is going to give you true dps...

Did you even sit down and think why I would say whether your swinging or not would be worth noting while determining dps? lol

Your version of dps: You log into the game. You do Kobold Assault and do 1000 total damage. You chat with your friends. You afk for a beer. You take a call from an uncle you haven't heard from in 2 years. You log out 5 hours later. And you did what? .05 dps

Actual dps: you start swinging (fighting) timer starts, you stop swinging (fighting) timer stops.

That's the basics for you...

[DragonMageT]

For a lot of people just seeing their own numbers arent much of an indicator because they dont have much to compare it to (yeah, guilty, i was one of them). Just because a lot of people would probably misuse it (only focus on that number) you'd be an idiot to to not take into account healing, CC'ing, intiming, etc.



DragonmageT:

I respect your opinion, but it seems like you are really hung up on the idea that this creates a DPS meter. I follow your logic that you outlined, but it isnt like that couldnt be applied anyway. Whats to stop a party from doing that already by combing their combat logs and combining numbers?

Because to my knowledge, the logs are not written out to your computer, they become full to quickly which would cause you to miss events FIFO thing going on.

There is no way to do what I have outline, currently and I will add that I know of.
A total damage # would be the fastest and probably the most accurate way to get a true DPS #.

It wouldn't be that hard, hit XP page and screen cap right before fight,
hit XP page again right after fight, screen cap again.
Have a timer program running off to the side.... seems pretty simple to me.

[DragonMageT]

You talk like timing a boss fight is going to give you true dps...

Did you even sit down and think why I would say whether your swinging or not would be worth noting while determining dps? lol

Your version of dps: You log into the game. You do Kobold Assault and do 1000 total damage. You chat with your friends. You afk for a beer. You take a call from an uncle you haven't heard from in 2 years. You log out 5 hours later. And you did what? .05 dps

Actual dps: you start swinging (fighting) timer starts, you stop swinging (fighting) timer stops.

That's the basics for you...

Really, lets be realistic here. Who cares about Kobold Assault.

I am was referencing controlled beat downs and timing (like in my example), I think I was very clear on that fact.
Shroud Part 5, TOD Part 2 or Part 3, EVon 6, dragon, VOD (to some extent).

I am sure there are other examples that could be listed.
Sure, people could be changing weapons, hitting boost of various types, drinking pots, etc. but those all play into a DPS #.

[Jay203]

first of all, have fun trying to get this without b*tching lag that'll most likely come with it
secondly, it's stupid to have this sort of number especially when there are so many luck-based proc effects like lightning strike
and third, there's really no point other than to pat your epeen more. let's avoid that altogether in this game yah?

[Jrstevenson07]

Because to my knowledge, the logs are not written out to your computer, they become full to quickly which would cause you to miss events FIFO thing going on.

There is no way to do what I have outline, currently and I will add that I know of.
A total damage # would be the fastest and probably the most accurate way to get a true DPS #.

It wouldn't be that hard, hit XP page and screen cap right before fight,
hit XP page again right after fight, screen cap again.
Have a timer program running off to the side.... seems pretty simple to me.

Im not sure how full the log can get, but i bet if i took out specific items like damage taken it could get bigger. Im sure that if somone was stubborn enough to do it, they could get a pretty accurate measurement with the current set up (dont look at me). There are even calculators out there that other players use before even making their build to check their DPS. Why is it such a big deal that somone COULD use a damage count this way? They do it with other figures. Dont see how that one specificly hurts the game.


Unless i missed it (could have) no one has provided another reason why it shouldnt be implemented other than 'people will abuse it'. It wouldnt even be hard to implement, its already going directly to your chat log, should be easier to put it in the same area as kill count.

[TitoJ]

Really, lets be realistic here. Who cares about Kobold Assault.

I am was referencing controlled beat downs and timing (like in my example), I think I was very clear on that fact.
Shroud Part 5, TOD Part 2 or Part 3, EVon 6, dragon, VOD (to some extent).

I am sure there are other examples that could be listed.
Sure, people could be changing weapons, hitting boost of various types, drinking pots, etc. but those all play into a DPS #.

You're marginalizing my example because the quest I used was low level? It was an example, I wanted to use low numbers there for you, and it seems to have worked, a little bit.

Chugging pots has nothing to do with dps lol. How much damage did you do while chugging a pot?

[Thrudh]

Trouble is, the focus on this sort of suggestion is always on seeing who is 'slacking off' first, before all other considerations.

Exactly... For instance, any melee or ranged attacker who uses paralyzing weapons in Gianthold is immensely helping the party... yet their 'damage count' numbers will be way low...

Or an intimitank who is using S&B (low damage output) but who is getting all the aggro, but with his AC almost no damage...

[Thrudh]

Here's an example of what the tool looked like:

Okay, the math-nerd in me makes me think that looks pretty darn cool...

[TitoJ]

@ DragonMageT

Your also forgetting casters...If a caster ooms...does his dps go down just because the boss fight is NOT over?

EDIT: word I missed is in caps...it was important to put that one in there lol.

BTW I am absolutely right here, so you should have something nice to say to me after you come to your senses lol.

[Thrudh]

As said what about the Wiz that spams mass hold do they get all the crit damage added to them?

How about the monk like myself that runs in and stuns the first mob for the slow pokes behind him and leave him stunned to get killed by others while you deal non crit damage to the next mob?
should all that auto crit damage get added to the monks total?

should the rogue get all his sneak damage added if he wouldn't be doing half as much if there wasn't a barb or fighter grabbing aggro for him to get sneak damage to start with?

What about bards should they get the + damage from all their songs added to their total? how about the extra damage the melees do because they hit on a 2 with the bard songs? should the damage being added cause they aren't missing on 3-5 be added to the bards total?

These. Good post.

[Spoonwelder]

I can see the self-assessment angle of having some form of total damage meter being attractive.

BUT

1. You have that option already

You can calculate your theoretical top crit damage personally, you can calculate you normal damage - you then apply that to a 20 hit spectrum and get a good idea of your DPS. From self assessment point of view this is all you need - work on this number in theory and you will improve your actual number in practice. Because for you as an individual player - your feat/enhancement/ability profile is set at a point and only the weapon varies OR your weapon is static and you want to apply different feats/enhancements/abilities. Either way you can do some pretty simple math and figure out if it will improve your character.

What is harder to do is applying haste/alacrity figures since the swing per second number is hard to pin down. BUT that number is less important in reality than it is in theory since you are hardly ever constantly attacking unless its beating on a boss.

2. If it is not for self-assessment -

Then it will be a measuring stick used against others for various reasons - given that you need to understand that it will be a non-number since there are too many variables, too many ways to play the game, too many quests with differing styles of objectives, such that any number you get will be fallacious in comparing one character to another.

Heck just a soloer vs. pug vs. guild running in quests will change you total damage or damage per second. Add in Dungeon scaling, hard, elite, epic and you again change the total damage number or even a % damage number.

I will admit I don't know WOW from a hole in the ground, but my understanding is that it is much more definitive in the roles of the players and more constrained in the build paths and mechanics of the game. Thus a DPS meter is a truer measure of a characters impact on the smoothness of a quest. In DDO that isn't the case and a meter isn't needed.

[Qezuzu]

Instead of comparing everyone's damage on the quest sheet, I suggest an in-game app where you can measure your character's DPS while in combat. eg:

Prime calculator
Swing on mob, timer starts
Fight
Mob dies
Timer stops
Damage done on mob/time spent, is given

Sell for 200 TP. $$$

[Boromirs]

I could write up a program that copies the combat log, dumps it onto a spreadsheet and then churns out a DPS number. I don't know how accurately it would reflect the character's skill versus the player's skill or if this is even in-line with Turbine's TOS (since I would need to mess with their client , although nothing server side mind you)....hrmmmmmmmmmmm......

[lazyninja81]

They should work out in one of the next few updates a damage count that goes along with kill count. I think it would make it easier to tell exactly who is slacking off in a party, maybe even enable a player to see if they need to make some character adjustments.

Dont know if it would be idfficult, but i wouldnt mind a healing damage count either.

Right, cause all those healing clerics and favoured souls, CC casters and buffing bards are a total waste of a party slot.

/not signed

[DragonMageT]

You're marginalizing my example because the quest I used was low level? It was an example, I wanted to use low numbers there for you, and it seems to have worked, a little bit.

Chugging pots has nothing to do with dps lol. How much damage did you do while chugging a pot?

Yes I was, don't see the point of your example...so you find out about a piker, not about their DPS.
Like you wouldn't have noticed them piking anyway.

Chugging pots = no damage
But the S in DPS kept going for x amount of seconds which has everything to do with DPS.


Jrstevenson07,
There is too much information flowing into the combat log, watch it next time during a boss fight.
Or better yet, after the boss fight, try to find the beginning entries in the log.

[Jrstevenson07]

Right, cause all those healing clerics and favoured souls, CC casters and buffing bards are a total waste of a party slot.

/not signed

Forgive me for being amazed that so many people have taken this to mean 'if you dont do damage, you are slacking off'. I said it earlier, that is NOT what my suggestion pertained to. It's hard enough to get clerics to put the longsword down as it is (some clerics anyway).

[TitoJ]

Yes I was, don't see the point of your example...so you find out about a piker, not about their DPS.
Like you wouldn't have noticed them piking anyway.

Chugging pots = no damage
But the S in DPS kept going for x amount of seconds which has everything to do with DPS.

So again..., takes 'x' amount of seconds to take a chug from my drink during a boss fight....

Everything with seconds apparently is added to dps lol...

This is why I +1'd you...lol

[flynnjsw]

Forgive me for being amazed that so many people have taken this to mean 'if you dont do damage, you are slacking off'. I said it earlier, that is NOT what my suggestion pertained to. It's hard enough to get clerics to put the longsword down as it is (some clerics anyway).

If a cleric is keeping the party up, then he has just as much right to swing a weapon as anyone else, same as a FvS. This statement as much as anything else is why a lot of clerics don't group outside of friends/guilds.

[Jrstevenson07]

If a cleric is keeping the party up, then he has just as much right to swing a weapon as anyone else, same as a FvS. This statement as much as anything else is why a lot of clerics don't group outside of friends/guilds.

Agreed, if they are keeping the party up. swing away, bake a cake, read a book, create a thread on the forums that creates a misperception of your proposed idea.

[TitoJ]

@ DragonMageT

Your also forgetting casters...If a caster ooms...does his dps go down just because the boss fight is NOT over?

EDIT: word I missed is in caps...it was important to put that one in there lol.

BTW I am absolutely right here, so you should have something nice to say to me after you come to your senses lol.

Funny how know - it - all's skip out on a topic once their theories are blown out of the water.