Damage Count

[Jrstevenson07]

They should work out in one of the next few updates a damage count that goes along with kill count. I think it would make it easier to tell exactly who is slacking off in a party, maybe even enable a player to see if they need to make some character adjustments.

Dont know if it would be idfficult, but i wouldnt mind a healing damage count either.

[DragonMageT]

/not signed

Just another meaningless number.

Kill count is not reliable and you somehow think a damage count # will be.
It would just tell you that player A hit x number of monsters....means nothing.

Doesn't give you any real information about how much damage player A is actually doing.

If you really want to look at how to adjust your character concerning damage, just look in the
combat log or look at the screen for the damage numbers flying by, then adjust accordingly.

[Vellrad]

/not signed

Just another meaningless number.

Kill count is not reliable and you somehow think a damage count # will be.
It would just tell you that player A hit x number of monsters....means nothing.

Doesn't give you any real information about how much damage player A is actually doing.

If you really want to look at how to adjust your character concerning damage, just look in the
combat log or look at the screen for the damage numbers flying by, then adjust accordingly.

I think damage counter he says about should be telling how many damage player A dealt to mobs in quest.

[dunklezhan]

They should work out in one of the next few updates a damage count that goes along with kill count. I think it would make it easier to tell exactly who is slacking off in a party, maybe even enable a player to see if they need to make some character adjustments.

Dont know if it would be idfficult, but i wouldnt mind a healing damage count either.

See, the wording of your post demonstrates exactly why this is a bad idea. If you'd said "I think it would make it easier to enable a player to see if they need to make some character adjustments, or even to tell exactly who is slacking off in a party" then I might have more sympathy for this request (which has been made before).

Trouble is, the focus on this sort of suggestion is always on seeing who is 'slacking off' first, before all other considerations.

Not only is the phrase itself a very negative way of putting it which prejudices all further comment as a result but it also completely ignores those who don't do damage or healing as a primary focus (CCers is mostly what I'm thinking about but a full on intimitank might well expect to see themselves not far from the bottom of the damage & kill chart despite being melee). Nothing is ever going to be a fully comprehensive report that covers all valid playstyles and approaches, and so the devs shouldn't put time into it.

Far better though, would be the ability to parse the combat log so the community could develop its own tools, which people could choose to use or not depending on their role. That way the focus really could be for self improvement purposes, not unrealistically and in blanket-fashion criticising others.

[Ciaran]

Far better though, would be the ability to parse the combat log so the community could develop its own tools, which people could choose to use or not depending on their role. That way the focus really could be for self improvement purposes, not unrealistically and in blanket-fashion criticising others.

Agreed. This was a great tool for adjusting builds and testing feats in AoC. Also, used correctly in the right group of people, it can help other players improve if they so desire.

For example, in AoC I spent a lot of time and effort tweaking my Barb's build and testing the different feats. Some had misleading descriptions or wound up being more lackluster than they sounded. I found the ability to record and parse the combat log to be crucial in improving my Barb's performance in quests and raids.

Here's an example of what the tool looked like:


You could post the results in chat and people could pull up a window that showed damage done, healing done, damage taken, deaths, etc, etc. I personally helped a lot of other Barbarians in the guild I was in improve their build by using combat log parsers and similarly saw our main tanks help the off tanks improve. They would look at the parsers and ask how they could be in the top 3-5 DPS or, for the tanks, top damage taken.

The way the tool is used is up to the person. Yes, it can be abused by elitist jerks (or more precisely, noobs as Quikster pointed out in the other thread similar to this) but it can be just for fun and for self-improvement. In the guilds I was in, at least, if you were at raid and followed directions and didn't do anything dumb, you were contributing. The tool was never used to discriminate against who could come and who couldn't or who was entitled to roll on loot and who wasn't. Did it get used like that by others? Certainly, but it was less prevalent than you'd think; doing stuff like that tends to give you a bad name quickly.

Of course, it was also used for bragging rights and friendly competition. Some of the best times I had in AoC were close races in DPS with other DPS classes where we were laughing, cutting up but trying really hard to best each other. That kind of thing really improves your play as well.

[Thrudh]

Here's an example of what the tool looked like:

Okay, the math-nerd in me makes me think that looks pretty darn cool...

[Thrudh]

Trouble is, the focus on this sort of suggestion is always on seeing who is 'slacking off' first, before all other considerations.

Exactly... For instance, any melee or ranged attacker who uses paralyzing weapons in Gianthold is immensely helping the party... yet their 'damage count' numbers will be way low...

Or an intimitank who is using S&B (low damage output) but who is getting all the aggro, but with his AC almost no damage...

[TitoJ]

Actually, a total damage count would be the ONLY thing that matters.

Who snuck in a last hit means nothing.

Not to say if the numbers are lopsided well to one person, you know whose doing all the damage.

[sweez]

My suggestion: just remove the kill-count-per-toon altogether. We should be able to see how many monsters were killed total for the purposes of knowing how close we are to conquest etc., but other than that it serves no purpose whatsoever, other than epeen measuring, which is no purpose whatsoever.

Knowing how much damage you do isn't all that hard if you know your build and which gear you'll use, knowing how much damage someone else does is the last thing this game needs.

[Nite_Prowler]

My suggestion: just remove the kill-count-per-toon altogether. We should be able to see how many monsters were killed total for the purposes of knowing how close we are to conquest etc., but other than that it serves no purpose whatsoever, other than epeen measuring, which is no purpose whatsoever.

Knowing how much damage you do isn't all that hard if you know your build and which gear you'll use, knowing how much damage someone else does is the last thing this game needs.

+1

Well said

DPS in game is easy enough to figure out without adding anything to the game.

I'm seeing way too many people whinning about DPS
Go back to WOW if your worried about DPS

[DragonMageT]

I think damage counter he says about should be telling how many damage player A dealt to mobs in quest.

then that would be like a DPS meter, there is a current thread about such a thing. Comparing it to WOW's DPS meter system.

If that is what the OP was actually taking about, either way, it's bad.

[TitoJ]

then that would be like a DPS meter, there is a current thread about such a thing. Comparing it to WOW's DPS meter system.

If that is what the OP was actually taking about, either way, it's bad.

Total damage count is nothing like DPS meter.

It's actually the only number that would matter...it should replace kill count.

If you play WoW, you would know there's a dps meter, AND a total damage meter. Separate things there.

[Vellrad]

And if we're alking about CC I think that damage done to held mobs should go into caster's account. If not them, there would be 10 times less critics

[DragonMageT]

Total damage count is nothing like DPS meter.

It's actually the only number that would matter...it should replace kill count.

If you play WoW, you would know there's a dps meter, AND a total damage meter. Separate things there.

Really ? any number that would give total damage would be used as a meter to gauge others DPS.
Thus becoming a "DPS Meter".

Let me give you an example...Shroud Part 5, beat down on Harry. People could click on the XP page and then see somewhat real time damage updates. It then would become a DPS meter. I know what they started with, I see the numbers updating....sounds like a DPS Meter to me. I may have to close the window and then re-click it again to see updates but either way...it becomes a DPS Meter.

And kill count should stay and not be replaced, it's used to determine XP bonuses.
It could be replaced with just total kills for the party and not list individual results.

[Seihan]

then that would be like a DPS meter, there is a current thread about such a thing. Comparing it to WOW's DPS meter system.

If that is what the OP was actually taking about, either way, it's bad.

I played WoW before and after dps meters came on the scene and imo it hurt the game. So many players now make scoring big numbers on such meter the primary focus to their play and use it as a tool for singling out 'bads'.

Nevermind that these so called 'bads' lose some of their dps numbers because they spent time casting cc, moving out of fire, removing debuffs etc. Dps meters just encourage tunnel-vision style dps over versitile or strategic gameplay from what I've seen. I'd be sad to see DDO go that way.

[Shuleagh]

I played WoW before and after dps meters came on the scene and imo it hurt the game. So many players now make scoring big numbers on such meter the primary focus to their play and use it as a tool for singling out 'bads'.

Nevermind that these so called 'bads' lose some of their dps numbers because they spent time casting cc, moving out of fire, removing debuffs etc. Dps meters just encourage tunnel-vision style dps over versitile or strategic gameplay from what I've seen. I'd be sad to see DDO go that way.

Damage meters helped the game tremendously. You can't have challenging content without damage meters. It just doesn't work. The difference in the complexity of encounters before and after damage meters came to play was huge. Content before Damage meters was a joke.

You already have people being excluded in DDO even without Damage meters. No Damage meters means if you ask to join a group for anything difficult and you aren't well known you don't get invited. I've already seen it happen multiple times in DDO. With a Damage meter all it takes is one run to find out if a dps is contributing. Without one its a crapshoot. Run Shroud, VoD, ToD, HoX and epics dozens of times and eventually your name gets out.

[Taimasan]

/signed

I would like to use it as a tool to measure different builds weapons feats and allocations to optimize my character. not saying its impossible to do now, but a meter of some sort would help.

[donfilibuster]

A metric to spot who needs a better build may worsen the elitism out there.

It might be better to just show the max and avg numbers as well as your own so you can compare your own toon only.
On damage and kills, but also on healing and sp spent, like in buffs, not sure how that'd work for bards.

As of now a better way to find the good players is to run with them several times.

[TitoJ]

The same people that put "link DR beaters" in their LFMs, the same people that put using MyDDO or
the same people that use MyDDO.

And you want to focused on the literal meaning of DPS. If a total damage # is given,
players can arbitrarily extract numbers out to be a DPS Meter, like in the example I gave.

It will happen.

And if you can't do simple math in your head (subtraction), use a calculator

You cannot get all this information just from a simple, total damage out put number. You don't know how many times someone had to swing to get those numbers...

What exactly would be the other meaning of dps? lol I think that you are confusing two very different things.

Have you ever played WoW? is what my question is. Have you ever actually used the damage meters? or are you saying things like...

then that would be like a DPS meter, there is a current thread about such a thing. Comparing it to WOW's DPS meter system.

If that is what the OP was actually taking about, either way, it's bad.

Because you're regurgitating things other people are saying in other posts that actually have to do with dps? It seems you haven't really played WoW to me...yet are commenting on it...could be wrong.

[DragonMageT]

You cannot get all this information just from a simple, total damage out put number. You don't know how many times someone had to swing to get those numbers...

What exactly would be the other meaning of dps? lol I think that you are confusing two very different things.

Have you ever played WoW? is what my question is. Have you ever actually used the damage meters? or are you saying things like...



Because you're regurgitating things other people are saying in other posts that actually have to do with dps? It seems you haven't really played WoW to me...yet are commenting on it...could be wrong.

Reading comprehension FTW! go back and re-read the posts.
The OP never mentioned WOW, I was and it was only in referencing to another thread comparing the WOW DPS meter.

To answer you question, tried it very briefly, not long enough to say I really played WOW, didn't' care for it.
But that's really irrelevant to this topic since since no one is talking about a WOW DPS METER, except you.

Do you even have a grasp of the English language, I guess not. I used wording like "arbitrarily extract numbers".
Doesn't me they are 100% accurate or even valid but people will do it and they will be used to judge others.

Man, you are clueless. What the hell does # of swings have to do with DPS ? nothing.
The S stands for Seconds not swings. It's talking about time which doesn't really apply but you want to go down that path. LOL now who is confused...looks like you confused yourself... # of swings, LMAO.

Give me a total damage # and you bet I can give you a true DPS # or Meter.

Let me explain it to you in simple terms because apparently you need it explained that way.

1 take the total damage of Player A before Harry boss fight.
2 start timer once boss fight starts.
3 stop timer once boss fight ends.
4 take (total damage after boss fight - total damage before boss fight) / (stop time - start time in seconds)

There you have it.....TRUE DPS #


Again..../not signed for any type of total damage #