DPS pre?

[Irongutz2000]

U guys want palis to have a pre for killin every monster in the game? They have a pre that lets them do great dps vs most of the mobs that matter to dps down quick KOTC. The reason that i think that they should not be onn par, agaist non evil outsiders, with the other dps monkeys is they have so much more.....LOH's, saves, own resists.etc. etc


If palis where given more dps then no one would play the other classes, i know i wouldn't, palis r just fine the way they r imo. I love mine, she pwns devils with np, an is not bad with everything else......Just spam divine sacafice, and smites

just a thought.

[AylinIsAwesome]

U guys want palis to have a pre for killin every monster in the game? They have a pre that lets them do great dps vs most of the mobs that matter to dps down quick KOTC. The reason that i think that they should not be onn par, agaist non evil outsiders, with the other dps monkeys is they have so much more.....LOH's, saves, own resists.etc. etc


If palis where given more dps then no one would play the other classes, i know i wouldn't, palis r just fine the way they r imo. I love mine, she pwns devils with np, an is not bad with everything else......Just spam divine sacafice, and smites

just a thought.

Really high DPS against some mobs, but much lower DPS against other mobs when compared to other classes doesn't make the class balanced, or the PrE good.

The end game is moving away from EOs. The argument that KotC is fine because of the number of devils and demons in the end game gets weaker with every major update.

It's too specialized. It's fine as it is against EOs, but it just needs something to make it nice against other mobs. Not as nice, but it still needs something, like half damage.

[Irongutz2000]

Really high DPS against some mobs, but much lower DPS against other mobs when compared to other classes doesn't make the class balanced, or the PrE good.

The end game is moving away from EOs. The argument that KotC is fine because of the number of devils and demons in the end game gets weaker with every major update.

It's too specialized. It's fine as it is against EOs, but it just needs something to make it nice against other mobs. Not as nice, but it still needs something, like half damage.

I think u ppl should play barbs :P I enjoy my pali, not having to have a baby sitter, lohs an mana/resists etc r a good trade off imo.

[tjaysteno]

Because they are not Fighters, Barbarians, or Rangers?

Paladins as a class and concept are specialized in an area of enemies (like undead, otherworldly, etc), not in 'gokill'. If they were, they would have gone to that other school, the War College, and would have graduated as Kensai.

There should be no one better prepared to fight devils (especially raid bosses) than a knight that devotes his entire life to fighting evil outsiders.

[Irongutz2000]

There should be no one better prepared to fight devils (especially raid bosses) than a knight that devotes his entire life to fighting evil outsiders.

Um...there isn't......palis r king agaist those.

[Dylvish]

I think u ppl should play barbs :P I enjoy my pali, not having to have a baby sitter, lohs an mana/resists etc r a good trade off imo.

The point they are making is, Paladin does not do as well as a Barb. Even against EO's they KEEP UP with Barbs, but do not blow them away in dps. Against everything else they lose the advantages they even have against EO's. And that is burst damage too, not consistant damage over time. The drop off is too much to account for self healing and saves.

As a side note, the way things currently stand, end game in most of the raids its mainly fort and reflex saves that mean anything, and many classes arent hurting too badly there, so pallies save bonus is very nice, but does not make up for that loss in dps.

The half damage bonus vs non EO I agree would be a nice help without blowing anything out of proportion.

[Sirslapemsack]

My lvl20 kotc pally with the ToD set and capstone does an additional 10d6 damage against evil outsiders. Coupled with DF, DM, Zeal, DS and exalted smite, Im able to rock Most mobs and just to beastly damage to my hated enemies. My smites hit for around 650ish with bard songs. (khopesh user)

Devine Might is something that pallys have over rangers imo. Yes its a one minute clicky but easily managable and you get a +8 bonus damage against everything you hit with whatever weapon you use. As opposed rangers bonus damage only to 4 aggro types and fighters only being able to get their big damage bonus with a certain weapon.

How does this add versatility? You wanna run +10 stunning warhammers in epic? well you still get all the damage bonuses as normal. You wanna craft a set of Lit2 heavy picks for stunned mobs in epic as opposed to using your khopeshs? Doesnt matter, you get all the bonuses and you can hit what ever want and get that +8 to damage.

No, pallys arent for min/maxers imo. But they have been set up worse in other games.

On that note, Cavalier is the MAIN reason i loved pallys in pnp. Mounts would be HUGE imo. Wilderness areas would obviously support them, and certain quests could. I cant imagine trying to run a mount through coal chamber or a host of other quests. However, even in pnp if the DM doesnt want your mount to be able to make it to a certain area, it wont. (a massive wall blocks you path with just enough room for you to pass through) . A summoning skill, (climbing up the spirling coal chamber then summoning your steed.) or something of that sort would be nice.

Just saying.

[Asketes]

it's called strength and skill

[Krag]

Just saying.

What is your strength and to-hit?

[Lord_kNiels]

Whats the point in making a paladin if the class you really want to play is a fighter?
The game has diversity in the classes and it should stay that way.

[Alternative]

My smites hit for around 650ish with bard songs. (khopesh user)

A barb with esos hits for 650 a lot more often than you can get a crit smite.

Playing a paladin and arguing against improving them does not make sense.

Just saying.

[LordSemaj]

A barb with esos hits for 650 a lot more often than you can get a crit smite.

Playing a paladin and arguing against improving them does not make sense.

Just saying.

You mean those guys who go "Hulk smash!" and decapitate dragons? Pretty sure they're designed for crazy amounts of dps while paladins have a load of immunities and spells.

[painindaguild]

What is your strength and to-hit?

lol, just lol.

[Krag]

Whats the point in making a paladin if the class you really want to play is a fighter?
The game has diversity in the classes and it should stay that way.

Decent passive and active past life feats. Ok damage vs outsiders. Fairly easy levelling.

Not much reason to stay paladin at cap though.

[AylinIsAwesome]

You mean those guys who go "Hulk smash!" and decapitate dragons? Pretty sure they're designed for crazy amounts of dps while paladins have a load of immunities and spells.

I'm pretty sure Paladins should be able to have similar DPS to other DPS classes. We aren't here just to look pretty you know. Something about game balance...

[Sirslapemsack]

A barb with esos hits for 650 a lot more often than you can get a crit smite.

Playing a paladin and arguing against improving them does not make sense.

Just saying.

So me stating a few facts doesnt make sense? I didnt say there wasnt things that could be done to improvethe class. Im just stating that if you are gonna roll a pally, RESEARCH the class. Know what makes them strong and efficient. Saying a barb with an Esos will crit more often for 650 than my pally is the only statement that made no sense and was completely off topic.

Guess what, a pally with an epic sos will also crit more often and for higher numbers than my pally. and if you put silver aug and are lvl 20, you can bypass DR with the Esos.

Considering ALL information on ALL classes is available before rolling a toon, nobody really has any business complaining about a class for only being good at one thing. www.ddowiki.com learn yourself something new.....

[painindaguild]

RESEARCH the class.

this if u want an answer. otherwise continue the entertainment!

[ThunderTank]

Decent passive and active past life feats. Ok damage vs outsiders. Fairly easy levelling.

Not much reason to stay paladin at cap though.

No reasons to stay paladins at cap ? Like being top notch dps on ToDs, Epic Chronoscope, Devils Assault, Amrath, Shroud, VoD, DQ ...?
My pally runs around with a 44 static str, DM4, dual e-chaosblades, e-marilith chain, e-claw set etc. Cant recall being outdps'd on any of the above content, which consists huge part of the endgame. On non evil outsiders trash, just use a pair of earthgrab heavy picks or vacuum II and enjoy the 840sh crit smites and 300sh divine sacs.

If u havent played the class enough , might be better to remain silent. Fully geared paladins can provide awesome overall dps and simply unparalleled burst damage on evil outsiders, plus versatility, self healing and high saves.

[LordSemaj]

I'm pretty sure Paladins should be able to have similar DPS to other DPS classes. We aren't here just to look pretty you know. Something about game balance...

Game balance being that the crazy dps barbarian doesn't get the ability to self-heal or buff his demon damage. Something about Paladins having peerless DPS vs most outsiders... coincidentally, most of the raids (i.e. places pure dps matters) involve said outsiders.

Such a grievance is akin to rolling up a wizard when you intended to play like a sorcerer... then commenting that the wizard runs out of spell points too fast. Much like how the sorc capstone is a +20% spell damage boost, not all classes are equal in all parts of the game even when they perform similar roles. Paladins clearly benefit in their own segments.

[karnokvolrath]

This one is easy.

If you want a pure overall dps charicter, make a fighter or barb.

If you want a self healing versitle charicter that really shines in most end game content but has situational dps faults make a palidin.

If they made a pally as good dps vrs everything, no one would play a barb or fighter, and well...that would just be stupid now wouldnt it?