Sorcerer: Drow versus Half Elf

[soulaeon]

Based on this thread, it seems that a Half Elf sorcerer would be the better choice than Drow, if one has access to 32 points, but Drow on 28 points. The "official" sorcerer thread is outdated, and has not yet taken into consideration Half Elves.
Half Elves have no negative stat modifiers, and further, have access to the Human stat enhancements. According to the Update 8 notes, several Dilettante feat-enhancements can add +1 to Cha. If Dilettante stat bonus stacks with Sorcerer Charisma and Human Adaptability, then that would make a Helf just as good a caster as a Drow. Personally, the Paladin feat seems best because one will get the stat bonus and up to +5 to saves that stack with other saves.

Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Prereqs: Level 5, Half-Elf Paladin Dilettante, 15 AP Spent
Cost: 1 AP
Benefit: Your Lesser Divine Grace has improved, and you are now able to add up to 3 points of your charisma bonus to your saves. Also increases your caster level in your dilettante class by 1, so you are now treated as a second level paladin instead of first level.
Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Prereqs: Level 10, Half-Elf Paladin Dilettante, Improved Paladin Dilettante I, 34 AP Spent
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: Your Lesser Divine Grace has improved, and you are now able to add up to 4 points of your charisma bonus to your saves. Also increases your caster level in your dilettante class by 1, so you are now treated as a third level paladin instead of second level.
Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Prereqs: Level 15, Half-Elf Paladin Dilettante, Improved Paladin Dilettante II, 53 AP Spent
Cost: 3 AP
Benefit: Your Lesser Divine Grace has improved, and you are now able to add up to 5 points of your charisma bonus to your saves. Also increases your caster level in your dilettante class by 1, so you are now treated as a fourth level paladin instead of third level.
Half-Elf Paladin Charisma I
Prereqs: Level 9, Half-Elf Paladin Dilettante, 30 AP Spent
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: Grants a +1 increase to your Charisma score. This counts as a class based ability score enhancement.

[frznvimes]

You can have 1 class enhancement and 1 race enhancement for each and any stat. The dilettante ones count as a class enhancements, and so they don't stack with sorc charisma. Human adaptability counts as a race enhancement, so does stack.

[soulaeon]

You can have 1 class enhancement and 1 race enhancement for each and any stat. The dilettante ones count as a class enhancements, and so they don't stack with sorc charisma. Human adaptability counts as a race enhancement, so does stack.

Does that mean Sorcerer Charisma can not be taken at all?

[frznvimes]

Does that mean Sorcerer Charisma can not be taken at all?

You will have the option to select one or the other, and after you make your selection the one you don't choose will be locked out. You could still take the improved dilettante line and sorc charisma though.

[Jaid314]

half-elf will still be an interesting choice, i think. however, human grants a free feat, and sorcerers shouldn't need all that much help in the long run to get their UMD to no-fail heal scroll zone (which is why half-elf looks so appealing to a lot of other classes). not sure i'd want half-elf for a pure sorcerer build (as compared to a human), though it would make for easier leveling i guess.

[Sibellya]

At level 20 with an exceptional Charisma skills Shroud accessory you can reliably UMD Heal scrolls with a Human or Drow Sorcerer. A Half-Elf with Favored Soul Dilettante can use Heal scrolls with a caster level check with 85% success rate from level 15 onwards.

IMO, on your first life go Half-Elf then go Human on subsequent lives. The only reason to go Drow is if you don't have 32 point build unlocked.

[Jonandu]

You will have the option to select one or the other, and after you make your selection the one you don't choose will be locked out. You could still take the improved dilettante line and sorc charisma though.

have you tested this?

[soulaeon]

At level 20 with an exceptional Charisma skills Shroud accessory you can reliably UMD Heal scrolls with a Human or Drow Sorcerer. A Half-Elf with Favored Soul Dilettante can use Heal scrolls with a caster level check with 85% success rate from level 15 onwards.

This is still minor compared to the +5 resistance one could get with the Paladin Dilettante feat. That's actually better than spell resistance.
I would go for a Helf over the Drow due to having the same stat potential as humans, but with added defenses. This thread is mainly comparing Drow casters to Half Elves.

[frznvimes]

have you tested this?

Not specifically for half elves. I'm going by the mechanics of enhancements (the descriptions specifically states "This counts as a class based ability score enhancement"), which I have tested. The enhancements will appear on your list if you qualify for them, but selecting one will make the other unavailable until you reset (the same way you can't have 2 PrEs for one class).

[Sibellya]

This is still minor compared to the +5 resistance one could get with the Paladin Dilettante feat. That's actually better than spell resistance.
I would go for a Helf over the Drow due to having the same stat potential as humans, but with added defenses. This thread is mainly comparing Drow casters to Half Elves.

Saves are like AC... you either get them high enough to really matter or you don't bother (albeit saves are easier to get into the 'useful' range than AC). A level 20 Sorcerer has base saves of 6/6/12. With a +5 Resistance item and +4 from Greater Heroism your saves will be 15/15/21 plus ability modifiers. Fortitude protects you against instant death but so does Deathward and Deathblock. Will protects you against command, hold and enchantments but so does Freedom of Movement. Spell Resistance protects you against all these effects (to an extent...). Reflex is the only save that really matters for damage reduction and about +30 is really needed to be useful at high levels. Even with the extra +5 from Paladin Dilettante I very much doubt you can get your Reflex save to a useful level.

[soulaeon]

I'd say saves are more important than AC. Mine are all almost 30, and probably will be over 30 if I reincarnated as a Helf. It's actually easier for me to accumulate good savings throws than AC.
I avoid being hit as much as possible, so I dont notice the Reflex and Fortitude saves as much, but I do agree that one needs a lot. But, I had no trouble getting where they are now, and I could probably get away with not having a +5 resistance-item in the next life if I used Night Shield instead.