And unemotional look at the new cosmetic system.

[IronClan]

Are you saying poeple should be able to make their own armor looks... say like in Second life? Get a grip man. This would be a huge development effort

The player base wants the ability to dye our armor from a color pallet and scroll through the random over mesh, and under skins, to allow actual customization.
Adding/removing the existing dagger belts, or the existing bandoliers, or the existing spell books, or backpacks, spikes etc. to wearable's. Remember the "goals" are all pulled from that thread. I"m not saying it, the player base is, repeatedly, over and over.

Hueing or "dying" is not some wild cutting edge technology. Most MMO's including Turbines have this as a standard feature at GAME LAUNCH... So lets not side track please.

Clearly the random armor/robes creation code in the game can mix and match under skins with over mesh (aka Gear. breastplates, shoulder pads, daggers, thigh pads etc.)... so set up a "shop" where we can go, and modify our random stuff, scroll through the massive amounts of random bits and pieces and let us "mix and match"... This alone would be 10x better than the current thing they're working on. At least in terms of actually addressing what the community wants.

As far as i recall the devs stated there would be a great number of kits when U8 comes around. Now if they actually deliver on this your argument will be void.

It's not an argument, even if they have 30 new types of skins to choose from everyone will still recognize the store bought "canned" skins... They will be popuar because ANY control over your characters appearence is better than none, even if it's half...um... half way control. If they put 60 or 160 skins in the store, SOME of them will be "crowd pleasers" and thus you'll see lots of people running around in the most popular skins...

Er go, the conclusion that this will lead to less individuality is perfectly reasonable... Even if they add a huge assortment you'll still see player gravitate towards the best looking ones. That again is not REALLY customizing... These skins don't functionally address most of the player bases desires...

You cant have everything... either you can have your char look like somebody thinks he should look or like you want him to look. My pallies never had shining armors as i hated the concept of them been lawfull stupid.

Give them time to actually finish this update before judging it.

This is a feedback forum created expressly to gather player feedback about these changes... I'm pretty sure they actually want our feedback

Them hearing RIGHT NOW what the players think of the new "customization" might actually help Turbine understand that the community seems to want something that this new system doesn't effectively provide. Or only very marginally provides.

[Alabore]

Are you saying people should be able to make their own armor looks... say like in Second life? Get a grip man. This would be a huge development effort
...
Give them time to actually finish this update before judging it.

If I may gently chime in, what we are saying is: please allow players to freely pick textures and meshes from existing models.
The development effort would be smaller than creating individual kits with different gear, skins and hues.

These kits show much promise - and I praise devs for providing a solution to an existing issue.
Problem is, they work better for higher level chars, with more or less static end-game level gear.
Lower level chars will still have to make do, and wear good-looking city armour and pack practical gear for actual questing.

I feel the underlying issue here is, they are letting the micro-transaction system get in the way of doing something simpler.
Also, I am never sure whether Lamannia is just a preview server - so we're basically getting over Live servers what we see here - or if player feedback does have a meaningful effect to development choices.
As a long-time single-player gamer the notion of being unable to customise my own games is a bit shocking.

[Thelmallen]

I am baffled (well not really) as to why they're trying to re-invent the wheel. For over four years there have been many many many posts and threads asking for the system that was implemented in LOTRO after we initially asked for it in DDO--allow us to use one set of armor for the magical abilities and one for the physical appearance. Simple, easily implemented and oes not require one to spend Turbine points (oooh, perhaps I shouldn't be baffled after all)....

[Ainimache]

I am baffled (well not really) as to why they're trying to re-invent the wheel. For over four years there have been many many many posts and threads asking for the system that was implemented in LOTRO after we initially asked for it in DDO--allow us to use one set of armor for the magical abilities and one for the physical appearance. Simple, easily implemented and oes not require one to spend Turbine points (oooh, perhaps I shouldn't be baffled after all)....

So, they could let us BUY, per character, the ability to have a cosmetic option for our character. They could even make it pricey, and people would pay.

LotRo gives you two wardrobe tabs, plus the ability to show or not the cloak/shoes/hat/shoulderpads/(can't remember if there's anything else). Once you "equip" something to your wardrobe tab you don't have to even keep it anymore. You can store it in the bank (in case you ever decide to wear something else for a while and might want to go back to it), or sell it, or *gasp* even store it in a wardrobe vault in the bank. Then the appearance is saved for you, but you can sell the actual item.

All we want is a wardrobe tab. I imagine most people who want this would even PAY each time they wanted to change what was in their wardrobe tab. Of course, that would only work if there was a preview button (a changing room, as it were, to see what the new armor/hat looked like when worn).

[Sydril]

Ultima Online had a great 256 color clothing dye system

Any dev with a modicum of experience would be familiar with successful strategies used in other games.

There must be an existing skin layer and color layer to armors in game because I see that reflected in the current live version of ddo.

It's just a matter of getting that system into the hands of players to manipulate items to the appearance they desire.

[Zippo]

If I may politely chime in on this matter, devs don't really have to create frame adjustments.
It would be more time/cost-effective if they allowed us to freely pick existing meshes, textures and hues, and maybe charge us once for the resulting appearance kit.
Or the service, account-wide.

As they are, appearance kits swap a fixed appearance with another fixed appearance.
The whole point of appearance customisation is removing the fixed part, not switching a fixed quantity with another fixed quantity.

They might work for veteran chars with fixed appearance gear - they are wearing end-game gear they'll be keeping anyway, so applying a one-shot kit isn't a big issue.
For lower level characters they are pointless: you are still stuck with city-gear and quest-gear, just with a store-bought kit instead of randomly generated bits.

You don't have to even go into this grand selection system either, if they went into a system like the one they use in LOTRO once you find an armor you like you can then set it into a separate cosmetic slot and switch between the look or looks that you want. It alleviates the need for new skins (although there is nothing wrong with the devs adding new skins) or architectures with the paste on skin they are doing with this. Your new gear grows with you and if you are happy with you look you can keep it at no further cost, the one major exception they had with that cosmetic system was you had to be eligible to wear it. You had to meet the level requirement or the proficiency requirement. It's a move in the right direction but the aim was still a bit off I think.

[Alabore]

You don't have to even go into this grand selection system either, if they went into a system like the one they use in LOTRO.

Well, yes, because armour appearance works differently in DDO.
In LoTRO you can pick the individual bits - gloves, boots, cloaks, and so on.
In DDO armours are composed of over-meshes and under-meshes, each with its own hues and textures.
If you truly wanted customised appearance you should be able to pick meshes, textures and hues.

Just to be clear: under-meshes are the basic model for a given armour type: robe, tabard, outfit and clean body - which provides the basic mesh/body for several armour suits from leather to plate.
Over-meshes are the bits you put over basic model for definition: pouches, shrouds, chain shirts, pauldrons and so on.
Meshes are textured and hued: the same texture can come in different colours.
These three compose an armour skin.
Several are re-used across armour types; a few are tied to a specific type, usually outfits and plate over-meshes.

This is why we'd like to be able to pick individual bits - mesh, texture and hue - to customise armour.
The new kits look promising, but as long as the three parts above are tied together, we're not really free to customise armour - just to pick a combination devs put together for us to buy.

It's a move in the right direction but the aim was still a bit off I think.

It shows promise, but I hope they won't let the "hair tonic" mechanism get in their way.

[Diib]

My guess is the problem with providing a LOTRO type armor customization is that not that many variables are passed.

When you enter a zone with other players data is passed to tell you what they look like. This is often part of the fundamental structure of how your overall engine works. My guess, is as this is an action game, they try to keep the amount of data passed very small. The way gear is displayed now, the "look" of any character could be reduced to one variable if that variable sits on a lookup table.

The problem with letting players mix and match is how do you pass that data around? Do you make a lookup table with billions of entries? That is very cumbersome and time consuming on the development side.

Look at what they have done. The way the new armors look, they can still just be passing around ONE value per character for the look. If you even "simply" introduced dyes you would probably have to pass two variables, and its entirely likely they are not set up to pass around that much data.

The way a client knows what other players look like is a basic decision that is typically made during development (before a beta) and is incredibly cumbersome to change after the fact. To me, it looks like these new armor "sets" represent the best they can do with (what I assume) is the underlying code of the whole game.

[TyDarius]

The worst part of all this,not being able to be diverse in our looks,is if the developers took a page from EQ a game that started all this mass online fantasy games.
Was EQ let you color each armor slot that in DDO would be in your inventory slots from a basic color pallet,plus each slot would adjust your look according to each pieace's look.
I mean are the developers so stumped on how to write a basic color pallet into the game....
Just my 2 cents...

[Alabore]

The problem with letting players mix and match is how do you pass that data around? Do you make a lookup table with billions of entries? That is very cumbersome and time consuming on the development side.

Not necessarily.

Armour in DDO is much simpler and it is defined by six different values: body type, body texture, body hue, worn gear type, worn gear texture and worn gear hue.

The underlying misconception here is: we're not asking for worn gear meshes to be broken into individual bits.
They are fixed - and they come in two configurations within a given type, lighter, usually one pauldron and no greaves, and heavier, both pauldrons and full body plating.
Let me emphasise the point: we are NOT asking devs to let us pick the individual bits.

We're just asking devs to let us pick any value from the existing entries for armour freely.

The game is already broadcasting those six variables for randomly generated gear.
No added lag.
What we're asking devs is, please let us change those six values freely.

The textures in new appearance kits look nice, the mechanism as a proof of concept looks promising.
But this is not true free appearance customisation.

[Diib]

Not necessarily.

Armour in DDO is much simpler and it is defined by six different values: body type, body texture, body hue, worn gear type, worn gear texture and worn gear hue.

The underlying misconception here is: we're not asking for worn gear meshes to be broken into individual bits.
They are fixed - and they come in two configurations within a given type, lighter, usually one pauldron and no greaves, and heavier, both pauldrons and full body plating.
Let me emphasise the point: we are NOT asking devs to let us pick the individual bits.

We're just asking devs to let us pick any value from the existing entries for armour freely.

The game is already broadcasting those six variables for randomly generated gear.
No added lag.
What we're asking devs is, please let us change those six values freely.

The textures in new appearance kits look nice, the mechanism as a proof of concept looks promising.
But this is not true free appearance customisation.

Ah, I see. I didn't know what variables they were already passing... I was trying to speak very roughly more generally. Well, that makes your petition much more reasonable, as it should fit in the existing framework just fine. All you really need to do is design an interface that lets the end user manipulate those variables and test the results. But that data shouldn't need to be too protected, as it has no actual game impact.

Indeed, you could even keep special armor sets unique by not allowing their values into the sets freely chosen by the end user. So some in game gear could have a unique look, or a be able to be pieced together using the "crafted" look where the user sets the existing six variables.

Carry on then...

[Kirlian]

... but do you know if and where can I get free TP on Lamania?

[fuzzy1guy]

I have 2 armours. One that is a good armour, the other is a good looking armour. Why cannot I put the good armour in the armour slot, and the cool looking armour in the cosmetic slot?

I am 100% certain this is what 100% of the playerbase wants, not this DDO shop piece of **** we are about to get offered.

Quoted for truth. Brutal as it may be.


I've been hanging onto an armor that looks awesome.. yet is completely useless. In the hope that ddo would get with the times and do what so many other games have done for years now. And have a 'cosmetic' slot.

The solution is simple. The graphics are already done. Yet they seem unable or unwilling to do such a simple thing that would make SO many people happy...

Why? Stupid? Malice? idk.

[AZgreentea]

The positive thing I see coming out of this is that it appears to allow for future additions.

When you look at the Leaf 1 and Royal 1, these are the bases for what gets added on top: Leaf 2 and Royal 2. The base remains the same, and the top gets changed. The bright side of all of this is that they can add Leaf 3-X and Royal 3-X with little additional work. Also, they'll be able to add additional bases with the new tops.

Keep in mind that every armor has to be stretched over a frame. Both male and female, for all races.

That's 14 frame adjustments for any single new armor style that they add. This will allow them to add a LOT more, a LOT faster, with little development time.

I'm not a fan of only having 4 options at the moment, and I agree that they fail in many ways, but this is a Large step forward. Changing the color of the styles will be a lot easier than changing the color options for all existent armor styles.

I agree. I see this as simply a start. In much the same way that Guilds evolved, so will the types of armor customizations. We even have hints at shield customization with now three (six if you count the shapes) different types of ways to change the appearance of your shield.

Hopefully this will lead to capes and boots and gloves, but that will take more work than the skins for armors, shields, and helmets that already exist.

[Pwesiela]

I agree. I see this as simply a start. In much the same way that Guilds evolved, so will the types of armor customizations. We even have hints at shield customization with now three (six if you count the shapes) different types of ways to change the appearance of your shield.

Hopefully this will lead to capes and boots and gloves, but that will take more work than the skins for armors, shields, and helmets that already exist.

Add to that the updated Lamania release notes say that color schemes are now available, as well as different add-ons with the different colors...

[Kriogen]

... There will literally be MORE players running around looking the same as random armor gets replaced by everyones favorite from the store.
...

As someone else said not so long ago: "Aha, this makes cents".

[IronClan]

Add to that the updated Lamania release notes say that color schemes are now available, as well as different add-ons with the different colors...

Those are just the samethings we've already seen, the only "new" in the notes is:

• NEW (Lammania Only): Tool tips on temporary Armor Appearance Kits will now direct players to the appropriate places to try the armor on.
• NEW (Lammania Only): A number of updates have been made to remove visible seams.

Adding some color variations of pre-canned skins is still not customization...

[Kominalito]

massive confusion in this thread.

the idea that one armor might LOOK like it protects more or less isnt the problem. you are actually wearing plate mail. the player should LOOK LIKE they are wearing plate mail and not princess leia's prisoner outfit. the AC has nothing to do with it. i realize this is a game about magic, but is it really that bad to try to keep an ounce of reality in the game?

this is one gigantic leap away from what d&d is about. this to me is as trivial as the PVP argument. make the armor dyable. why is that so hard? this new system is making what should be a relatively simple process (they have hair dye dont they?) and turning it into a gigantic mess. maybe the goal is to mess it up, get a horrible response from the playerbase, then remove it, and it never gets spoken of again*.

*...kidding

[AZgreentea]

i realize this is a game about magic, but is it really that bad to try to keep an ounce of reality in the game?

this is one gigantic leap away from what ddo is about. this to me is as trivial as the PVP argument. make the armor dyable. why is that so hard? this new system is making what should be a relatively simple process (they have hair dye dont they?) and turning it into a gigantic mess. maybe the goal is to mess it up, get a horrible response from the playerbase, then remove it, and it never gets spoken of again*.

*...kidding

There is a substance that Thorn used in The Thorn of Breland Trilogy that completely altered the appearance of her leather armor. She could make it look like a black suit for stealth, or a fancy evening dress. Being able to altar our Armor in this way is Lore appropriate. I believe it was called Shiftweave (not to be confused with shimmerweave).

[MrkGrismer]

... but do you know if and where can I get free TP on Lamania?

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275618