Fools Plat

[Rumbaar]

I like it when people use real world economics, as if they actually pertain to a video game.

The problem? No matter what your currency standard is...the actual value of every item, and every piece of currency in the game is always 0, and will always be 0.

If I give 0 for 0, I will always come out with nothing. Therefore, it doesn't matter to me how much 0 I give, or receive, because my end result will always be 0.

Lets say, I'm willing to sell said item for 135,000pp, with an actual worth of 0.

It's nothing for the another guy to say, hey, that just went for 135,000pp, I'm going to try to sell it for 150,000pp. What people do not understand, is he is actually selling the same item, for the exact same worth of 0.

Because our gains and losses will always equal the same amount, it will seem prices are actually inflated. But no matter what stage a game is in, everything is always being sold for the same basic value of 0.

What's not understood is that no matter what digit you see on your screen, every item in the game is actually sold for the same actual worth, and has the same actual worth. Nobody is actually out, anything.

Why people fail to understand this? Because they forget that you cannot escape the fact that we're in the real world, even while playing a game, and we view things the exact same as we would in the real world.

Like the paper note or coin in your pocket, it only has the value you or society assign it. To say each value has a worth of 0 is a bit silly.

[lekkus]

Let's face it. Eberron should join the eurozone and accept the € to avoid inflation!

[TitoJ]

Like the paper note or coin in your pocket, it only has the value you or society assign it. To say each value has a worth of 0 is a bit silly.

I didn't ever say you can't put a value on real world items...I said ddo items all have a real world worth of 0. Mainly because they do not exist lol...go figure.

[melkor1702]

I think the biggest thing here is the value of any item in game or not is a compromise between how much someone is prepared to sell it for and how much someone else is prepared to pay for it.

It's why stamps, coins etc that have a nominal value of a few cents or dollars can sell to collectors for hundreds or thousands of dollars.

If you think it's too expensive don't buy it, if no one else buys it either it will likely be reposted eventually at a lower price. Alternatively you will eventually pull it from a chest yourself and wont have to buy it off the auction house.

[TitoJ]

I think the biggest thing here is the value of any item in game or not is a compromise between how much someone is prepared to sell it for and how much someone else is prepared to pay for it.

It's why stamps, coins etc that have a nominal value of a few cents or dollars can sell to collectors for hundreds or thousands of dollars.

If you think it's too expensive don't buy it, if no one else buys it either it will likely be reposted eventually at a lower price. Alternatively you will eventually pull it from a chest yourself and wont have to buy it off the auction house.

What stamp or coin is in current production and worth hundreds or thousands of dollars to a collector? I want to know, because I will buy up them and make a huge killing lol...

[Rumbaar]

I didn't ever say you can't put a value on real world items...I said ddo items all have a real world worth of 0. Mainly because they do not exist lol...go figure.

But they do exist, just like the money in your bank account exists only in digital form.

If it had not real world worth, then Turbine Points would be free

[Adalita]

I didn't ever say you can't put a value on real world items...I said ddo items all have a real world worth of 0. Mainly because they do not exist lol...go figure.

1. Unless you work in a job where you are paid in gold bullion your salary is represented by a bunch of 1s and 0s on a computer at your bank. 1s and 0s that exist because your employer's computer told your bank's computer to credit your account. By your definition this money also does not exist. The same logic would say things like computer programs and music also do not exist. I think you would agree that this is an absurd conclusion, therefore you should examine your assumptions.

2. At a minimum there is a labor value inherit in every item, i.e. how much of my time do I have to invest in order to acquire said item.

[TitoJ]

But they do exist, just like the money in your bank account exists only in digital form.

If it had not real world worth, then Turbine Points would be free

Wowzee...I sure as hell work a lot for that money in my bank account lol, for it being worth no more than a mere ddo item, that isn't even an item, rather a representation of something on your screen.

You're problem here is...my money in my bank account does actually exist outside of digital form.

Purchasing Turbine Points is no different than paying for vip access. You're paying for video game access..not real world items lol...wow.

What do you think they use that money for? To restock all the items everyone bought lmao?

[TitoJ]

1. Unless you work in a job where you are paid in gold bullion your salary is represented by a bunch of 1s and 0s on a computer at your bank. 1s and 0s that exist because your employer's computer told your bank's computer to credit your account. By your definition this money also does not exist. The same logic would say things like computer programs and music also do not exist. I think you would agree that this is an absurd conclusion, therefore you should examine your assumptions.

2. At a minimum there is a labor value inherit in every item, i.e. how much of my time do I have to invest in order to acquire said item.

WOW! lol. So what does that say for people who do not have a bank account? They have no money? lol...

Life is not lived on a computer people...this is silly. Money exists outside a computer too...what the hell do you think they did before c0mputers? They used MONEY! lol. Not a representation of it on a computer. This is too funny.

[Adalita]

Wowzee...I sure as hell work a lot for that money in my bank account lol, for it being worth no more than a mere ddo item, that isn't even an item, rather a representation of something on your screen.

You're problem here is...my money in my bank account does actually exist outside of digital form.

Example: I work. My employer pays my salary directly into my account. I use my attached credit card to pay Turbine for a VIP subscription to DDO

Homework: Please explain either
1. Where in this transaction did my money exist outside of a digital form?
OR
2. Why Turbine Points aren't 'real'?

Note: no one is saying that money can't exist outside of a computer, that would be absurd. You are saying that things which only exist inside a computer CANNOT have value. We are saying you are wrong by showing that things inside a computer (like 'real money) clearly CAN have value.

[TitoJ]

If people actually don't realize that money is an actual item, that is represented by banks on a computer as a digit...

And that ddo items are actually representations of non-existent items....

I think the world is done for lol.

[TitoJ]

Example: I work. My employer pays my salary directly into my account. I use my attached credit card to pay Turbine for a VIP subscription to DDO

Homework: Please explain either
1. Where in this transaction did my money exist outside of a digital form?
OR
2. Why Turbine Points aren't 'real'?

Note: no one is saying that money can't exist outside of a computer, that would be absurd. You are saying that things which only exist inside a computer CANNOT have value. We are saying you are wrong by showing that things inside a computer (like 'real money) clearly CAN have value.

But you're not paying for the items...like I asked...do you think they restock the items after you supposedly buy them? NO! It goes to server upkeep and the such lol...that's what you're paying for.

[TitoJ]

Too silly...good night...I"m done for.

[Adalita]

Too silly...good night...I"m done for.

Thank you for engaging in an ad hominem attack rather than discussing the point at hand.

[dragonmane]

Thank you for engaging in an ad hominem attack rather than discussing the point at hand.

Did you have to bring Latin in on the argument?

[Adalita]

Did you have to bring Latin in on the argument?

Yes, because it makes me feel better about having studied it at school. I suffered then, and now its your turn

[Wrendd]

Ttioj, you are correct in that the gold/silver/copper/plat in DDO has virtually no real world value. You can not purchase plat directly with US dollars (or other currecy), nor can you trade in plat for US dollars (that would be nice, and DDO could be my full time job, lol).

But plat and gold DO have value within the framework of the game. DDO has a virtual economy. A virtual economy must function in order to establish and maintain the value of virtual goods, within the framework of the game that it serves. A virtual economy in a game like DDO is vastly different from a real world economy, but that does not make it "imaginary".

The biggest difference that I can see with an economy like DDOs is that everything is a luxury, there are no true necessities. ie. if your character has no gold/plat then he will not starve to death, he does not need to pay for a roof over his head, does not support loved ones back in the village, etc. With the abscence of things that you MUST buy then everything becomes something you WANT to buy. Couple that with an unlimited income, lots of time, and the fact that we have very few "money sinks" in this game and you get inflated prices.

Remember, "everything is what it's purchaser will pay for it". If someone is asking 150k plat for an item, do not pay it, unless the item is worth 150k plat to YOU. If no one buys it then it is likely that the seller will then drop the price. But, unfortunately, in a virtual economy such as ours, there is no gaurntee that the seller will, in fact, drop his price. If the item does not sell at the price he is asking, the seller does not really have any major drawbacks. He is still (presumably) making plenty of cash by questing and selling other items, he is not going to be evicted from his home if the item does not sell. The only incentive that the seller has is to make more virtual money to fund his next extravagant purchase.

It is reasonable (if annoying) for that seller to place his item at 150k plat for several 3 day auctions in order to expose the most people to his item.

The seller probably thinks something like this:
"Hmm, I have 3 GS weapons, 4 epic items and over 1,000,000 plat. I know that I am not RICH by DDO standards, merely well off. I know many people are TRing and have a large amount of cash to fall back on. This item I have is nice, but hardly the most powerful thing around, but I wonder if I can sell this for 150k plat. If I can't then I can always drop the price later with no repercussions, and if it does sell for 150k plat then I win."

or

"I am poor, I only have 10k plat, but I already have another item that serves the same purpose as the one I want to sell. I want to sell this thing for the absolute most that I possibly can. I will put it up for 150k plat, surely some idiot out there will pay it, most of the people I see running around in this game have soo much cool stuff that they MUST be rich."

When an economy has strong positive incentives to the sale of an item, and no strong negatives to the lack of a sale, then you will get hyper-inflated prices.

As to the change from gold to plat being the base currency of the AH... I am torn. It makes for a slightly easier comparison to your own cash, but it is easy for many people to just keep the same number (ie 150,000) and use that numer in plat as opposed to gold. As pointed out above, that is an actual price increase of 10. But, if they did price it at 15,000 plat..... 15,000 sure looks a lot smaller than 150,000. I think it is just that some people do not think about the switch from gold to plat and fall back on old habits. And others (read: new players, with little experience in selling desired items) might see a comparable item up for a large amount and not realize why the item they saw is worth more than the item they are selling.

I was browsing the AH a few months ago (before coming to Iraq and not having the ability to play DDO), and I looked at the gems section of the AH. I saw 3 "bloodstones" priced for 500k plat. Obviously this person was either clueless as to what a real Bloodstone was, where to get it, or why it was so valuable, OR the person selling them knew perfectly well what a "real" Bloodstone was and was hoping to cash in on the ignorance of others. At least I got a good laugh out of it

[redgod]

Right, you say that costs 10 dollars. When something cost 1000 dollars you dont go to the largest denomination and say that costs 10 one hundred dollars. You say one thousand dollars. So the change does NOT make sense.

GP has been the DnD standard since the 70s.



Naaa it was only subtracting a zero (or was supposed to be) Plat might be the largest single denominator, but its not the denominator that DnD players speak in - just like 100 dollars isnt the denominator we divide by in real life, just because its the largest single unit denominator.

everybody has made a point similar to this or at least the same lines. but the fact is by switching to plat the ah prices changed they went up by a factor of ten. so did the plat removed from game via ah fees.

amounts of coin drops haven't changed, tha base price a vender pays for trash hasent changed but the price we pay has changed and as the ah filters out more and more plat you'll see some ballance brought to the market.

[Cholera]

I like it when people use real world economics, as if they actually pertain to a video game.

The problem with your formula is that you're forgetting one very salient fact - worth is, in itself, a construct. It is never a property inherent in any object. It is a belief, regardless of circumstance. Value, be it projected onto a virtual or a physical item, only comes about as a result of a willingness to apply the belief.

[Towrn]

I like it when people use real world economics, as if they actually pertain to a video game.

The problem? No matter what your currency standard is...the actual value of every item, and every piece of currency in the game is always 0, and will always be 0.

If I give 0 for 0, I will always come out with nothing. Therefore, it doesn't matter to me how much 0 I give, or receive, because my end result will always be 0.

Lets say, I'm willing to sell said item for 135,000pp, with an actual worth of 0.

It's nothing for the another guy to say, hey, that just went for 135,000pp, I'm going to try to sell it for 150,000pp. What people do not understand, is he is actually selling the same item, for the exact same worth of 0.

Because our gains and losses will always equal the same amount, it will seem prices are actually inflated. But no matter what stage a game is in, everything is always being sold for the same basic value of 0.

What's not understood is that no matter what digit you see on your screen, every item in the game is actually sold for the same actual worth, and has the same actual worth. Nobody is actually out, anything.

Why people fail to understand this? Because they forget that you cannot escape the fact that we're in the real world, even while playing a game, and we view things the exact same as we would in the real world.

I'm bored and picked the first thread on the general forums to read.

This post was great......

because it says so much without saying a **** thing.

More posts should read like this....clean, plain and having no point. The forums would be a much more enjoyable place to learn about the number 0.