Fools Plat

[Doganpc]

or The Fallacy of a New Standard.

Anyone remember why we switched over to platinum instead of gold? I'm pretty sure it was an economic decision based on the going prices for items in the game. Since everyone was listing items at 150,000gp for that +3 Metalline Longsword of Pure Good and people were trading items in terms of Platinum instead of Gold. So turbine switched from Gold to Plat as the standard denomination and now...

Everyone is listing +3 Metalline Longsword of Pure Good's for 150,000pp.

Dogan
Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot?

[Jakarr]

Umm a +3 Met longsword of Pg is worth 150k Plat not 150k gold....

[Sirea]

Umm a +3 Met longsword of Pg is worth 150k Plat not 150k gold....

Eh, not really.

[HeavenlyCloud]

Eh, not really.

Maybe not a longsword but +3 metalline of pure good is good enough for 150k plat.

[Jakarr]

Eh, not really.

Since it is a longsword its not worth a full 150k(if I needed it for some reason I would pay that price) but its **** worth more then 150k gold

[Diyon]

The change makes sense. Just like I say "That costs 10 dollars" rather than "That costs 1000 cents."

However since we were indeed saying "That costs 1000 cents" before the change (at least in AH), this has had the unintended consequence of gp values being used as pp values instead.

[Frodo_Lives]

Without getting into the relative worth of a +3 MoPG I do agree with the OP. Prices have gone through the roof with the gold - plat conversion.

I especially notice it with farmable items such as dragon scales from Tor, Taps, Vale crafting mats, and the like.

I have also noticed a huge increase in the junk being posted for insane prices. Vendor trash weapons, clothing and jewelry are at an all time high, and even those items that are considered junk are being posted at a value that is way higher than they ever used to sell for.

Part of the problem is that there are a lot of new players who don't know what is valuable and what is garbage and an even bigger part of the problem is that there are no real plat sinks and money is so easy to get at high levels that dropping 30 or 40k plat on a twink moderately useful item isn't completely out of reason for some.

The DDO economy is completely pooched, plat is not worth a whole lot and is way to hard to get at the beggining of the game and way too easy to get at the later stages.

[TitoJ]

I like it when people use real world economics, as if they actually pertain to a video game.

The problem? No matter what your currency standard is...the actual value of every item, and every piece of currency in the game is always 0, and will always be 0.

If I give 0 for 0, I will always come out with nothing. Therefore, it doesn't matter to me how much 0 I give, or receive, because my end result will always be 0.

Lets say, I'm willing to sell said item for 135,000pp, with an actual worth of 0.

It's nothing for the another guy to say, hey, that just went for 135,000pp, I'm going to try to sell it for 150,000pp. What people do not understand, is he is actually selling the same item, for the exact same worth of 0.

Because our gains and losses will always equal the same amount, it will seem prices are actually inflated. But no matter what stage a game is in, everything is always being sold for the same basic value of 0.

What's not understood is that no matter what digit you see on your screen, every item in the game is actually sold for the same actual worth, and has the same actual worth. Nobody is actually out, anything.

Why people fail to understand this? Because they forget that you cannot escape the fact that we're in the real world, even while playing a game, and we view things the exact same as we would in the real world.

[Falith12]

I like it when people use real world economics, as if they actually pertain to a video game.

The problem? No matter what your currency standard is...the actual value of every item, and every piece of currency in the game is always 0, and will always be 0.

If I give 0 for 0, I will always come out with nothing. Therefore, it doesn't matter to me how much 0 I give, or receive, because my end result will always be 0.

Lets say, I'm willing to sell said item for 135,000kpp, with an actual worth of 0.

It's nothing for the another guy to say, hey, that just went for 135kpp, I'm going to try to sell it for 150kpp. What people do not understand, is he is actually selling the same item, for the exact same worth of 0.

Because our gains and losses will always equal the same amount, it will seem prices are actually inflated. But no matter what stage a game is in, everything is always being sold for the same basic value of 0.

What's not understood is that no matter what digit you see on your screen, every item in the game is actually sold for the same actual worth, and has the same actual worth. Nobody is actually out, anything.

Why people fail to understand this? Because they forget that you cannot escape the fact that we're in the real world, even while playing a game, and we view things the exact same as we would in the real world.

+1 thats awesome

[Doganpc]

I like it when people use real world economics, as if they actually pertain to a video game.

The problem? No matter what your currency standard is...the actual value of every item, and every piece of currency in the game is always 0, and will always be 0.

If I give 0 for 0, I will always come out with nothing. Therefore, it doesn't matter to me how much 0 I give, or receive, because my end result will always be 0.

Lets say, I'm willing to sell said item for 135,000kpp, with an actual worth of 0.

It's nothing for the another guy to say, hey, that just went for 135kpp, I'm going to try to sell it for 150kpp. What people do not understand, is he is actually selling the same item, for the exact same worth of 0.

Because our gains and losses will always equal the same amount, it will seem prices are actually inflated. But no matter what stage a game is in, everything is always being sold for the same basic value of 0.

What's not understood is that no matter what digit you see on your screen, every item in the game is actually sold for the same actual worth, and has the same actual worth. Nobody is actually out, anything.

Why people fail to understand this? Because they forget that you cannot escape the fact that we're in the real world, even while playing a game, and we view things the exact same as we would in the real world.

Whoa there sparky... I don't give a hoot about economics, its the prices as they are related to what scale we are using. Back when we were using gold pieces I would see silly metalline of pure good items going for 150,000 gold pieces. What I'm seeing now is they're going for 150,000 platinum pieces. Thats a 10 times increase in value of the the same item and the ONLY thing that changed was our reference point.

It doesn't matter if they sell for 150,000. They're being listed, and thats what other people see when they pull one so they list theirs in approximation of what they've seen. Oh and you obviously havn't read any articles that do give value to electronic items since they take a persons time and effort. The following is a quick google selection of articles that are not wikipedia.

Dutch court imposes real punishment for virtual theft.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...tual-theft.ars

Addictive online games have real world value.
http://www.articlesbase.com/sports-a...ue-495919.html

A patent application for a "system and method for providing real world value in a virtual world environment"
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7824253.html

oh and cause everyone loves their wikipedia... see controversy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy

Dogan
From Gold to Plat.

[Thriand]

Lets say, I'm willing to sell said item for 135,000kpp, with an actual worth of 0.

135,000k pp?
135,000,000 pp is well over the plat cap

[Junts]

Without getting into the relative worth of a +3 MoPG I do agree with the OP. Prices have gone through the roof with the gold - plat conversion.

I especially notice it with farmable items such as dragon scales from Tor, Taps, Vale crafting mats, and the like.

I have also noticed a huge increase in the junk being posted for insane prices. Vendor trash weapons, clothing and jewelry are at an all time high, and even those items that are considered junk are being posted at a value that is way higher than they ever used to sell for.

Part of the problem is that there are a lot of new players who don't know what is valuable and what is garbage and an even bigger part of the problem is that there are no real plat sinks and money is so easy to get at high levels that dropping 30 or 40k plat on a twink moderately useful item isn't completely out of reason for some.

The DDO economy is completely pooched, plat is not worth a whole lot and is way to hard to get at the beggining of the game and way too easy to get at the later stages.

A lot of the stuff you listed has increased in value for other reasons.

A lot more people are getting close to and/or making epic red dragonscale; therefore, they need more gianthold scales. I've made a couple sets since the conversion, and the prices of black/white scales on my server have nearly doubled since august. (which itself was 2 months after the conversion). The reason for this isn't the currency: its that there's way more people competing with me now than there was then to buy them.

The opposite is true with vale farming: only levelers are doing it and there's so much to do in DDO that I no longer have time to go farm funk/twigs with my caster, even at 8m runs of the quests. So the people who do have time or interest to farm can sell for a lot more, because a lot more players have no time or interest in getting them themselves. Greensteel blanks used to cost 100k plat; they now legitimately trade for a red dragonscale (about 7x that). That isn't the plat transition: its demand vs supply.

[TitoJ]

Whoa there sparky... I don't give a hoot about economics, its the prices as they are related to what scale we are using. Back when we were using gold pieces I would see silly metalline of pure good items going for 150,000 gold pieces. What I'm seeing now is they're going for 150,000 platinum pieces. Thats a 10 times increase in value of the the same item and the ONLY thing that changed was our reference point.

It doesn't matter if they sell for 150,000. They're being listed, and thats what other people see when they pull one so they list theirs in approximation of what they've seen. Oh and you obviously havn't read any articles that do give value to electronic items since they take a persons time and effort. The following is a quick google selection of articles that are not wikipedia.

Dutch court imposes real punishment for virtual theft.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...tual-theft.ars

Addictive online games have real world value.
http://www.articlesbase.com/sports-a...ue-495919.html

A patent application for a "system and method for providing real world value in a virtual world environment"
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7824253.html

oh and cause everyone loves their wikipedia... see controversy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy

Dogan
From Gold to Plat.

Unfortunately, you can't get away from economics just by saying, I'm not interested in economics.

If you're bringing up a money standard, you're bringing up economics in some form or another, even if you don't want to use that word.

I also know how difficult the concept is to explain, because you do pay real world money to play the game, and you can buy with real world money, items for the game, now you think all of a sudden pixels have real world value.

I'm just giving you the general layout here, that applies to masses. Not something that's fixed to every situation.

I'm just trying to say, it doesn't matter what you call it, or what standard it goes by...why do you think these conversations happen on absolutely every mmo? Because people don't understand the basic value of everything.

[TitoJ]

135,000k pp?
135,000,000 pp is well over the plat cap

Lol...thanks...terrible habit I have.

[Doganpc]

Unfortunately, you can't get away from economics just by saying, I'm not interested in economics.

If you're bringing up a money standard, you're bringing up economics in some form or another, even if you don't want to use that word.

I also know how difficult the concept is to explain, because you do pay real world money to play the game, and you can buy with real world money, items for the game, now you think all of a sudden pixels have real world value.

I'm just giving you the general layout here, that applies to masses. Not something that's fixed to every situation.

I'm just trying to say, it doesn't matter what you call it, or what standard it goes by...why do you think these conversations happen on absolutely every mmo? Because people don't understand the basic value of everything.

Here I thought I had a healthy disconnect from a game I still enjoy playing on occasion...

Dogan
Topic derailed, please find alternative transportation.

[Teldurn]

or The Fallacy of a New Standard.

Anyone remember why we switched over to platinum instead of gold?

Yes.

I'm pretty sure it was an economic decision based on the going prices for items in the game.

No, it was because the Auction House was using gold as its primary denomination, whilst everywhere else in the game, plat was the standard.

They changed it for consistency, and little else. All the talk about the economics and all that jazz is, frankly, just superfluous to the point at hand.

[Kabaon]

I haven't noticed a difference with the prices, what was 15k gp was actually only 1.5k pp, suddenly it doesn't sound like a lot.

Generally back before the change, a Metalline of Pure Good weapon was priced roughly about 1.5mil (depending on the weapon of course) but that really only came out to be 150k pp. Nothing has changed except your perception of the price differences.

Honestly, platnuim wasn't hard to get even at low levels really, the trick is keeping it as you go up and want to get better equip now rather than later. If you stockpile, make deals, avoid the AH and sell without taking a cut you can make more.

[Chai]

The change makes sense. Just like I say "That costs 10 dollars" rather than "That costs 1000 cents."

Right, you say that costs 10 dollars. When something cost 1000 dollars you dont go to the largest denomination and say that costs 10 one hundred dollars. You say one thousand dollars. So the change does NOT make sense.

GP has been the DnD standard since the 70s.

However since we were indeed saying "That costs 1000 cents" before the change (at least in AH), this has had the unintended consequence of gp values being used as pp values instead.

Naaa it was only subtracting a zero (or was supposed to be) Plat might be the largest single denominator, but its not the denominator that DnD players speak in - just like 100 dollars isnt the denominator we divide by in real life, just because its the largest single unit denominator.

[Kominalito]

people love to use armchair economics like they went to school for it, but they ignore things called factors. like the factor there was a HUGE influx on f2p players that are confused by plat/gold (i have no idea why, they can pay for a can of pop can't they?). when there are people that can't understand these things, and they just want to charge ridiculous amounts i totally realize that things like economics play a part -they just want more. i get that. but the problem is that a lot of people were around for the change and can't wrap their brains around it. thats a fact.

you can't apply real world economics so generally because this is a GAME. motivating factors in life include 1) not getting evicted. 2) feeding yourself. 3) feeding your kids. 4) healthcare, etc, etc, etc you get it.

[TitoJ]

people love to use armchair economics like they went to school for it, but they ignore things called factors. like the factor there was a HUGE influx on f2p players that are confused by plat/gold (i have no idea why, they can pay for a can of pop can't they?). when there are people that can't understand these things, and they just want to charge ridiculous amounts i totally realize that things like economics play a part -they just want more. i get that. but the problem is that a lot of people were around for the change and can't wrap their brains around it. thats a fact.

you can't apply real world economics so generally because this is a GAME. motivating factors in life include 1) not getting evicted. 2) feeding yourself. 3) feeding your kids. 4) healthcare, etc, etc, etc you get it.

I suppose some people also go to the movies and assume that's all applicable to real life also lol...

But you're absolutely right...there's no risk of failure....there's actually no possible way to fail prospering in DDO, because I don't believe there's a possible way to get negative plat lol. Not through game mechanics at least.