Ok Bard players need some advice!

[Sethus]

Was wanting to roll up a new character and i was thinking Bard. Any suggestions as to what the most useful builds are? One that can be a trap monkey? One that can fight a bit better? Party buffs or crowd control? Just want to get a feel for all of this. I'm just wanting to make one that is going to be useful to all groups. I don't do much soloing as i enjoy helping others. Fire away!

[Qezuzu]

I'm only the ownder of a lvl9 bard, but I still know some things.

If you want CC then you'll want to go pure bard for the capstone. +3 to DC's is huge. Focusing on CC will still mean you can have great buffs and healing, but your combat abilities will be subpar. If you go this route, I would reccomend Spellsinger for the +1 to DC's -10% to SP costs and the freaking regeneration of everyone's SP. However, Virtuoso has a mass HP regeneration song and the song of Capering, which is like Otto's dances but with a diabolically high DC.

If you want to skimp on CC (a pure bard is the only kind that can get useful DC's for end game) then I would get at least two rogue levels for Evasion (considered one of the best feats in the game) and trap skills.

For better DPS, you'll really have to skimp on your CC and spells. A heavy fighter/rogue/ranger splash will be required or you'll just be far too feat starved to do anything. Like 16brd/2ftr/2rog. Always get 2rog if you go for combat. It helps with DPS, gives trapskills, and evasion.

Basically, for CC/buffs/healing, go pure. For DPS/Traps, get a heavy splash. I haven't done too much research on builds but I'm not seeing anyway to get sizeable DPS and CC, since the cap gives +3 DC's and you won't get any free feats with that.

[Gorbadoc]

Check these:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ighlight=guide

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/gramm...s.htm#vocative

I recommend you stay pure for your first bard.

Casting and meleeing are generally considered an either/or option; you can do one or the other well, but not both (okay, a caster bard CAN hit stuff; just don't think of it as an acceptable fallback plan, because his DPS will be lousy).

Melee warchanter is probably the most idiot-proof option (not to mention a lot of fun if you already enjoy playing fighter types). Focus on your buffs; then focus on hitting stuff; ignore CC spells completely, though Fascinate/Music of the Dead/Music of Makers are still awesome.

Could you give more information on what you're looking for? 28pt or 32pt? Melee or caster?

Also, sorry to play grammar nazi, but if you would spend twenty extra seconds punctuating correctly, then that would save every reader five seconds of trying to figure out your meaning. Multiply that by dozens of readers, and that's a net time savings. It's just like a bard's Inspire Courage-- you spend those six APs on that last rank of Inspired Attack, because that one extra attack point is given to EVERYONE in the party, and this multiplication of effort results in everyone being better off. This is the way of the bard.

In case you're unsure what I'm talking about, I think you meant "Okay, Bard players, I need some advice!". The way you wrote it, it means that bard players who are okay are in need of advice.

[Kawabonga]

Irinis said it all (ok maybe not all but a lot!)...Check out the Diva's post!

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275472

[Sethus]

Check these:

Also, sorry to play grammar nazi, but if you would spend twenty extra seconds punctuating correctly, then that would save every reader five seconds of trying to figure out your meaning. Multiply that by dozens of readers, and that's a net time savings. It's just like a bard's Inspire Courage-- you spend those six APs on that last rank of Inspired Attack, because that one extra attack point is given to EVERYONE in the party, and this multiplication of effort results in everyone being better off. This is the way of the bard.

In case you're unsure what I'm talking about, I think you meant "Okay, Bard players, I need some advice!". The way you wrote it, it means that bard players who are okay are in need of advice.

BLARGH! ****ing grammar nazis.... Kidding man. I get ya. Usually i'm better at that ****. Anyway, on to the important stuff.

As of right now i'm pretty good at the "multi-tasking while fighting ****: thing. I play a pure Cleric right now as my main and i'm proud to say very little bad happens on my watch. I enjoy the "help others do their job better" aspect of the Cleric, so i thought a bard could be a lot of fun in a similar, but different, way.

That being said, i think the wade in and smash **** way could be a lot of fun too. I have a 18th Exploiter build and a 13th Frenzied Berserker as my alts and i enjoy smashing everything around me into submission as well.

From what i understand, though, the CC and buff Bards are in a bit higher demand at higher levels for all the little things they can do for the raid party or regular parties you get into.

So, maybe that's a bit more of the info you need to help. I sincerely appreciate your guys help in this matter. Mucho thanks!

Character would be rolled up as a 32 pt. Unless i went Drow, of course, in which case it would be 28 only.

[Chette]

From what i understand, though, the CC and buff Bards are in a bit higher demand at higher levels for all the little things they can do for the raid party or regular parties you get into.

Not really. All bards can buff equally well. In fact, warchanters (typically battle bards) can give slightly better damage songs. All bards can also CC, in the form of fascinate. Even a fully DPS specced multi-classed bard can get up to a 50 fascinate with items, and that's plenty for epic. Warchanters are the most in-demand, but having back-up healing from spellsingers, and the SP regen song can save a raid if you don't have enough healing power from your clerics and favoured souls. Virtuoso's are sort of a niche, not having one I can't really say much there.

Character would be rolled up as a 32 pt. Unless i went Drow, of course, in which case it would be 28 only.

Don't go Drow, please

In sum, having played a multitude of different bards, they are all fun, and all unique. You need to decide what you want to do with your bard before you can be given much advice. Read the Diva's Bard guide and you'll get a better idea of your options.

[Stitch78]

I'm currently at lvl 12 with a bard/rog/fighter Warchanter. And I am STILL not sure whether it will be 15/3/2 or 16/2/2. It is a beast. If the main melee in the party isn't geared out, doens't play his toon well or doesn't know the quest, I'll probably lead in kills. (Yah, yea, yea, means nothing, I know. It means something to me when the kills leader is a bard or FVS.)

Here's what you need to know:

1) traps:take the first level as rogue, and max the rogue skills, UMD. You will have plenty left over, so dump it into perform. You will still have left over, so go nuts (balance, jump, concentration, sneak). With decent intelligence, you can keep search and disable device maxed and get enough open lock levels that you won't fail often. Take the second rogue level around 7-8, because that's when you will start appreciating evasion. And with only two rogue levels, you can get every trap in the game (maybe 2-3 exceptions) if you just dont vendor the items you loot without checking their stats first.

2) melee: much like a pally, to be effective in melee you must be clicking and pre-clicking things - heroism/greater, focusing chant, songs, action boosts, haste, blur, displacement, rage. But once you're buffed, you'll have the to-hit to leave Power Attack (warchanter feat prerequisite) all the time. The rogue level 1 gets you sneak attack, so avoid getting aggro whenever possible for the DPS boost.

3) casting: buffs only, no real offensive casting (until certain things are fixed at least - AOE spells like shout now need hard targets?!? yuk). But the buffs are amazing. By your 9th bard level, 3 song buffs (plus one for the other rogue in the party) Eagle's Splendor (save a gear slot) haste, blur, displace, GH, rage, inviz PLUS all the things you can easily UMD like fire shield, stoneskin, protection/resist energy, dimension door, etc.

4) emergency: when everything has gone down hill, swap to your best Perform item and hit the Fascinate button. Then use your somewhat meager healing abilities (carry a greater efficacy/devotion item) and UMD scroll/wand abilities to get people up. Or, run away while everything is fascinated. Or charm the fascinated mobs to help you out.

Basically, you can play every role the party needs. You can improve your healing a lot by tweaking your enhancements and carrying wands. So, um, that's my vote.

[Crystalizer]

...Basically, for CC/buffs/healing, go pure. For DPS/Traps, get a heavy splash. I haven't done too much research on builds but I'm not seeing anyway to get sizeable DPS and CC, since the cap gives +3 DC's and you won't get any free feats with that.

technically you can choose the dps & cc road but you wont have an impressive dps. but most melee bards, warchanter based, are not so powerful anyway about dps, they are decent but definitively under melee classes with the same gears. anyway in ddo your gears are more & more important about everything. your +5 str from leveling helps your dps but wont be the magic answer to dps. with the sp song spellsingers are now much more demanded for raids, with the prestige enhancements 2 virtuoso & spellsingers are not anymore "singular" builds but have some solid arguments to offer.

so CC & dps :
drow pure bard
stats : 14/10/12/10/8/20
feats : toughness, power attack, extend, heighten, spell focus enchantement, greater spell focus enchantement, maximize or empower healing
enhancements : full healing line, spell penetration a bit, max songs damage, duration, tohit
items : you must farm item for having max hp boost, minos + min2 item, min2 GA or GS or falchion or maul, get divine power clickies, and madstone boots when you dont need to heal and decide to charge, get torc and concordant opposition item to regen sp & hp while fighting

with the new enhancements spellsingers should be much more asked for pug raids since the warchanter 2 songs are gimps

[Stitch78]

technically you can choose the dps & cc road but you wont have an impressive dps. but most melee bards, warchanter based, are not so powerful anyway about dps, they are decent but definitively under melee classes with the same gears. anyway in ddo your gears are more & more important about everything. your +5 str from leveling helps your dps but wont be the magic answer to dps. with the sp song spellsingers are now much more demanded for raids, with the prestige enhancements 2 virtuoso & spellsingers are not anymore "singular" builds but have some solid arguments to offer.

so CC & dps :
drow pure bard
stats : 14/10/12/10/8/20
feats : toughness, power attack, extend, heighten, spell focus enchantement, greater spell focus enchantement, maximize or empower healing
enhancements : full healing line, spell penetration a bit, max songs damage, duration, tohit
items : you must farm item for having max hp boost, minos + min2 item, min2 GA or GS or falchion or maul, get divine power clickies, and madstone boots when you dont need to heal and decide to charge, get torc and concordant opposition item to regen sp & hp while fighting

with the new enhancements spellsingers should be much more asked for pug raids since the warchanter 2 songs are gimps

There's nothing really wrong with this build idea, IMO, other than Power Attack being unnecessary. Your to-hit will rarely be high enough to make turning it on be worthwile. This type of build will CC and heal acceptably well, and will shine at higher levels I suppose. But it more of a one-trick pony, whereas I wanted something far more versatile.

However, I have to disagree about the DPS claim - it will never be more than "meh" on this kind of a build. As for what kind of bards are desired in raids, only time will tell but any type of bard, regardless of how gimpy, will be able to boost the party's DPS and give other useful buffs. Time will tell if people start begging for Spellsingers and Virts. The raging debate regarding the Song of Recklessness is well documented elsewhere.

[Crystalizer]

There's nothing really wrong with this build idea, IMO, other than Power Attack being unnecessary. Your to-hit will rarely be high enough to make turning it on be worthwile. This type of build will CC and heal acceptably well, and will shine at higher levels I suppose. But it more of a one-trick pony, whereas I wanted something far more versatile.

However, I have to disagree about the DPS claim - it will never be more than "meh" on this kind of a build. As for what kind of bards are desired in raids, only time will tell but any type of bard, regardless of how gimpy, will be able to boost the party's DPS and give other useful buffs...

mm versatile.. i would then go with 2 rogue levels, use a 2 handed weapon to save feats but go for the str road to have some decent melee skills, probably virtuoso to rely on cc from songs, and also some melee splash for more melee abilities. if you dont go pure i dont think that spellsinger is so interesting, or for the sp song, which lets you 8 levels for whatever you want, 14 bard levels are good for songs efficiency, then you reach the classic builds you can find in the bard section, a classic is 2ftr/2rog/16bard

...Time will tell if people start begging for Spellsingers and Virts. The raging debate regarding the Song of Recklessness is well documented elsewhere.

i play much bards, my main is since a long time a bard. what i can see now is that most of the time if i sing the song of recklessness either i am asked to not sing it if there is no warforged, or the party is surprised by the dps but sometimes you wipe. and i start to get asked in pugs the sp song now.