Brunhilda - 20 Barb Horc

[Consumer]

Simply put, I am trying to see what the point of dexterity is. Fair enough, its for reflex save. I am yet to dable into epic content so am happy to accept that the +3 reflex is a better thing that 20hp. I will be posting my prospective TR build on these forums at some point this week and hope for some constructive feedback. After reading this I will be putting my extra points into Dex instead of Cha (for UMD - might just completely forget that skill and only use pots instead).

As for the "I have a +4 dex item to max my AC" comment, I have an empty slot (ring, not TOD flagged so these are both empty) and use a +4 dex item as my armour has a max dex bonus of 4.

As people have already said many spells like fireballs, comet falls and so on require a reflex save to halve their damage.

When these spells start hitting for a third of your HP and can glue you to the ground (comet fall) having an acceptable save is a good idea.

However as there is no point going THF on a Barb you should be starting with a 15 dex anyway unless you have a +3 dex tome banked.


To the OP - max both Power rage lines

[breadstick]

As for the "I have a +4 dex item to max my AC" comment, I have an empty slot (ring, not TOD flagged so these are both empty) and use a +4 dex item as my armour has a max dex bonus of 4.

I think you might not know how dex bonus to AC works...

For every 2 dexterity points over 10 (8 dex is -1, 10 is +0), you get a +1 bonus to AC. For example, if your dexterity is 18, you would be getting a +4 bonus to AC. Putting on a +4 dex item on a dwarf with (presumably) 8 base dexterity will only give you a +1 bonus to AC; leaving you 3 more AC that can be squeezed out before your armors 'max dexterity bonus' cuts it off at +4.


Just to add to the discussion, when I started running shrouds, I was a major pain on the healers when Harry felt like blasting a few fireballs in a row (I died once). Then I started wearing a +6 dex item, +4 resistance and used uncanny dodge (I never even used it before, now I am addicted) and now I usually have the most HP remaining after he blasts the group (evasion toons excepted).

[OldAquarian]

To the OP - max both Power rage lines

1) Yes, I'd rather have +3 reflex than 20 HP
2) Max both Power Rage and remove what to pay for it? That's a LOT of points for +2 Strength
Barb Power Rage=4
Orc Power Rage=2 + prereqs of Orc XXX III Brute Fighting = 6, Extra Action = 6, Fury = 5 (since I took Fury I)

So thats min 11 points for +2 STR when raged - not sure where to shave them
And if I could shave them - shouldn't I use 4 ponits for Orc Strength 2 first

I would love to take everything, but tried to maximize what fits, so if there are points spent that are not as valuable - please let me know

The old school thought was that Weapon Apt was a waste - but it seems to be buffed enough recently to be worth it now - and thats still only 6 points

And 2.5 Rating for this, really?
- with so many people rolling these you'd think people would want a post to point to that does a reasonable job.
- if nothing else, pointing out that +3 Reflex > 20 HP should be worth more than that

[Nick_RC]

And 2.5 Rating for this, really?
- with so many people rolling these you'd think people would want a post to point to that does a reasonable job.
- if nothing else, pointing out that +3 Reflex > 20 HP should be worth more than that

It was at one I hit it with a 5 to compensate cos one is ridiculous. Its just a typical 2 handed barb build. Nothing new and nothing bad. Id def max the dps tho get all the rage str goodies.

edit* "Nothing New and nothing Bad" except a fighter is better at dishing out the dmg atm.* And the 2wf 18/2 Halforc out dps' this as well. But for a 2 handed halforc its a good and intuitive platform.

[maddmatt70]

Once you're capped and geared u wont really have a problem with reflex saves. And if you do, build a gs item with reflex saves.
Str and con, rest is bonus if u got points to spare.

Its debatable to even make a shroud hp item on a barbarian anymore much less a reflex save item. Slots are so limited and they all should be devoted to dps.

[Consumer]

Its debatable to even make a shroud hp item on a barbarian anymore much less a reflex save item. Slots are so limited and they all should be devoted to dps.

You can fit a shroud HP/guard item into the cloak slot and still maintain max DPS:

head - epic helm of the red dragon
neck - shintao cord
trinket - epic bloodstone/litany
armour - redscale/marilith chain
cloak - 45 HP earthgrab or other guard
belt - colethenis's
bracers - claw
gloves - claw
ring - ravager
ring - kyosho's

[maddmatt70]

You can fit a shroud HP/guard item into the cloak slot and still maintain max DPS:

head - epic helm of the red dragon
neck - shintao cord
trinket - epic bloodstone/litany
armour - redscale/marilith chain
cloak - 45 HP earthgrab or other guard
belt - colethenis's
bracers - claw
gloves - claw
ring - ravager
ring - kyosho's

Here is another option which is equivalent dpswise and does not have shroud hp item, but has some other advantages especially for silver flame usage and 2 greater resists:
head: epic helm of frost
neck: shintao cord
trinket: Epic Gem of Many Faces
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak
Armor: Epic Marilith Chain
Bracer: Epic Scorched Bracer
Gloves: Epic Claw
ring: Ravager
ring: kyosho's
boots: madstone.

[Nick_RC]

You can fit a shroud HP/guard item into the cloak slot and still maintain max DPS:

head - epic helm of the red dragon
neck - shintao cord
trinket - epic bloodstone/litany
armour - redscale/marilith chain
cloak - 45 HP earthgrab or other guard
belt - colethenis's
bracers - claw
gloves - claw
ring - ravager
ring - kyosho's

Was thinking about best set up the other day man and I think replacing the red dragon helm the guard cloak and hotswap madstone in and out for the helm of frost envenomed cloak and boots of corrosion - netting you another 2 str overall.

I norm dont keep madstone on full time slot wise i norm hit DF clickie then clickie madstone and switch out... i have 3 sets tho so its not a prob keeping madstone up. If you really wanted to max it just keep red dragon helm on until you get the second madstone proc then switch in ur abisha might set.

N

Edit: So

head - Epic Helm of Frost /Epic Helm of the red dragon(while waiting for second madstone to proc)
neck - shintao cord
trinket - epic bloodstone/litany
armour - redscale/marilith chain
cloak - Epic Envenomed
belt - colethenis's
bracers - claw
gloves - claw
ring - ravager
ring - kyosho's
Boots - Epic boots of corrosion/Madstone

[Nick_RC]

Here is another option which is equivalent dpswise and does not have shroud hp item, but has some other advantages especially for silver flame usage and 2 greater resists:
head: epic helm of frost
neck: shintao cord
trinket: Epic Gem of Many Faces
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak
Armor: Epic Marilith Chain
Bracer: Epic Scorched Bracer
Gloves: Epic Claw
ring: Ravager
ring: kyosho's
boots: madstone.

Aye this is the other setup I was looking at. Think im gonna stick with Epic bloodstone for the mo. I figure they are going to bring out more dragon armor with eternal X on it when they bring out GH sooooooooo prob gonna stick with dragonscale robes and hotswap em depending on resistances. Something to think about moving forward.

[maddmatt70]

Was thinking about best set up the other day man and I think replacing the red dragon helm the guard cloak and hotswap madstone in and out for the helm of frost envenomed cloak and boots of corrosion - netting you another 2 str overall.

I norm dont keep madstone on full time slot wise i norm hit DF clickie then clickie madstone and switch out... i have 3 sets tho so its not a prob keeping madstone up. If you really wanted to max it just keep red dragon helm on until you get the second madstone proc then switch in ur abisha might set.

N

Yes that is the other option I was thinking of. Basically barbarians have so many hit points that unless they are in total tanking situaton they do not really need shroud hp items.

[maddmatt70]

Aye this is the other setup I was looking at. Think im gonna stick with Epic bloodstone for the mo. I figure they are going to bring out more dragon armor with eternal X on it when they bring out GH sooooooooo prob gonna stick with dragonscale robes and hotswap em depending on resistances. Something to think about moving forward.

lol too funny..

[Nick_RC]

Yes that is the other option I was thinking of. Basically barbarians have so many hit points that unless they are in total tanking situaton they do not really need shroud hp items.

Aye. Max the dps all the way.

[Nick_RC]

Yes that is the other option I was thinking of. Basically barbarians have so many hit points that unless they are in total tanking situaton they do not really need shroud hp items.

Just a further to this thats how i have groan set up atm. He normally wears tharnes but has hp GS goggles for main tanking.

Works well.

[maddmatt70]

Just a further to this thats how i have groan set up atm. He normally wears tharnes but has hp GS goggles for main tanking.

Works well.

A guildy of mine is becoming more of the mindset that you should not wear shroud hp on nearly any characters. I do not really agree - I think bards, cleric/fvs, and rogues should all definitely have them and likley still wiz/sorc as well, but fighters/paladins/rangers/monks I have not made up my mind one way or another. Definitely barbs should only have shroud hp when they are tanking.

[Nick_RC]

A guildy of mine is becoming more of the mindset that you should not wear shroud hp on nearly any characters. I do not really agree - I think bards, cleric/fvs, and rogues should all definitely have them and likley still wiz/sorc as well, but fighters/paladins/rangers/monks I have not made up my mind one way or another. Definitely barbs should only have shroud hp when they are tanking.

For barbs and fat fighters I see it. For fat evasion rangers/palis I can see it. Rogs casters monks divines and bards.... i guess depends on the content and playstyle. For the latter I think it would be nice to at least have a hotswap they can switch it to. I cant recomend to the random pugger its a good idea as likely it will lengthen there life expectancy nicely. But for the top notch players yeah I can see where hes coming from.

[Cam_Neely]

Play epics and ul see where the difference between 20hp and 3 reflex save becomes important. New raid in the outside area is a prime example - Flying abishai and tiefling casters dealing 250ish points of damage AOE on a failed save which they spam at a prolific rate. Your 700 hps will take all of 3 shots to kill ya while a 680hp equivalent (With attention to dex/refl save gear) w/impr uncanny dodge will have alot better chance at taking 7. Reflex save isnt just for evasion types its important for everyone (sorcs being the class hardest to get a good refl save on)

What kind of Reflex save do you run with? My original planning was that to get a manageable reflex save for high end content on a Barb would take to many slots, to make a half dmg save, but seems alot of people here are saying its worth while