DDO Devs - Please talk to LOTRO Devs

[Bakalakadaka]

While finally getting cosmetic armour is a step forward, DDO has yet again done it in such a halfway manner that it is bound to cause more frustration for players than real success. The cosmetic item is 'bound' to the armour to which it is applied meaning you have to buy a new one for each new set of armour you gain if you want to keep the look. It is also far to generic with all types of light & medium looking the same, all robes the same etc so instead of 2,000 people running around in blue Dragon Touched there will be 1,000 in red/tan and 1,000 in crimson/silver (even assuming other sets get added the variety will not be great). The effect goes across the whole armour set so you cannot, for example, change your breastplate but leave the pants untouched to provide a bit of personal variety. And in the end you are stuck with having to buy the effects from the store (or possibly get ultra rare drops from events) making this just another money grab.

DDO devs - please talk to your LOTRO counterparts. LOTRO has a brilliant cosmetic system which allows every armour piece to be individually altered to match any other item that you pick up (or in some cases buy from the store) for the same slot. You apply the visual effect via a completely seperate panel which controls what is displayed on screen while your equipment itself and its effects are not altered. This completely seperates what you are wearing from what is displayed and allows you to keep the same look (should you wish) as you level up while totally altering your gear. Plus as a bonus there are 2 cosmetic panels allowing you to have a choice of three completely different looks; your actual gear plus two cosmetic sets.

Now granted the LOTRO piecemeal armour set system is different from the DDO one-size-fits-all approach, but even so implementing a cosmetic display system which uses the same method of a seperate panel which is not linked to the worn armour should not be a major ask and would be a great deal better than this halfway house.

However I am biased as personally I'd like to see the whole LOTRO UI pulled into DDO so that DDO can get itself out of the 19th century. Mods, skins, individual sizing and scaling of windows, multiple cosmetic displays - all things that DDO is lacking but is available to it just by having the dev teams talk to each other and share knowledge. Get out of the dark ages DDO - if it were not for your unique combat system you would have died long ago.

(and while you are at it learn what a proper crafting system is meant to be like; the DDO psuedo-craft dungeon grind rubbish is a joke)

[issiana]

Totally agree with you.

Lotros system IS the system DDO should be using.

With the current UI we have it would be very easy to add another tab to it that holds the appearance item. this way we could then use ANY ARMOR we find in quest (or use store bought ones) as appearance items. suddenly we have the variety in looks we all want.

make the appearnace tab a store bought item and you have a winner of a system. heck make it bought per character if you want instead of an account option (although accoiunt option would be my choice!)

hopefully its early days and things can be tweaked to be better.

[Natashaelle]

Totally agree with you.

Lotros system IS the system DDO should be using.

I personally disagree, because there is a significant difference between amounts of items you need to keep in your backpack in those two games.

Adding X amount of gear you'd need to retain in backpack for cosmetic purposes, as is the case in LOTRO, could be quite burdensome for some DDO toons (including several of mine).

[Backley]

I personally disagree, because there is a significant difference between amounts of items you need to keep in your backpack in those two games.

Adding X amount of gear you'd need to retain in backpack for cosmetic purposes, as is the case in LOTRO, could be quite burdensome for some DDO toons (including several of mine).

Incorrect. I haven't played LotRO extensively, but I do know that you don't need to retain the item in your inventory that you have applied to one of your cosmetic outfit sets. You can select Random Chain Shirt as your cosmetic armor, then trash/sell/mail/bank that actual Random Chain Shirt and the cosmetic stays.

[shagath]

However I am biased as personally I'd like to see the whole LOTRO UI pulled into DDO so that DDO can get itself out of the 19th century.

There are opinions as many as there are people. I haven't tried lotro but my friend who likes ddo tried it. He couldn't stand lotro ui, he said he can't play it because it sucks so much.

[Sarezar]

I think the problem is with how DDO was originally designed. LOTRO benefited from being the game after DDO, i.e. Turbine learned from their mistakes and improved their code and design.

I hope there is a way to do what you suggest, but I have a feeling it just can't happen. Only solution then would be to keep adding more and more and more designes in every update. Looking at the ones on Lamannia, it is obvious that they recycle old and new patterns to create a new variation. Even if that is a good way to add more skins and to fake customisation, the percentage of "similar" skins is higher than the unique ones.

Once again with DDO, we have to wait (a long time) and see.

[MetaHawk]

I personally disagree, because there is a significant difference between amounts of items you need to keep in your backpack in those two games.

Adding X amount of gear you'd need to retain in backpack for cosmetic purposes, as is the case in LOTRO, could be quite burdensome for some DDO toons (including several of mine).

I rather like the system that's used in RoM. Basically, you can buy special runes from the store, which upgraded or changed equipment. For a cosmetic change you place the runes and two pieces of equipment into a special tool, and then transfer the looks of one to the other. The runes and the item from which you transferred the looks would then be destroyed in the process. No extra weight problem, better variety of looks, and a good money maker for the store.

[Bloodhaven]

While finally getting cosmetic armour is a step forward, DDO has yet again done it in such a halfway manner that it is bound to cause more frustration for players than real success. The cosmetic item is 'bound' to the armour to which it is applied meaning you have to buy a new one for each new set of armour you gain if you want to keep the look. It is also far to generic with all types of light & medium looking the same, all robes the same etc so instead of 2,000 people running around in blue Dragon Touched there will be 1,000 in red/tan and 1,000 in crimson/silver (even assuming other sets get added the variety will not be great). The effect goes across the whole armour set so you cannot, for example, change your breastplate but leave the pants untouched to provide a bit of personal variety. And in the end you are stuck with having to buy the effects from the store (or possibly get ultra rare drops from events) making this just another money grab.

DDO devs - please talk to your LOTRO counterparts. LOTRO has a brilliant cosmetic system which allows every armour piece to be individually altered to match any other item that you pick up (or in some cases buy from the store) for the same slot. You apply the visual effect via a completely seperate panel which controls what is displayed on screen while your equipment itself and its effects are not altered. This completely seperates what you are wearing from what is displayed and allows you to keep the same look (should you wish) as you level up while totally altering your gear. Plus as a bonus there are 2 cosmetic panels allowing you to have a choice of three completely different looks; your actual gear plus two cosmetic sets.

Now granted the LOTRO piecemeal armour set system is different from the DDO one-size-fits-all approach, but even so implementing a cosmetic display system which uses the same method of a seperate panel which is not linked to the worn armour should not be a major ask and would be a great deal better than this halfway house.

However I am biased as personally I'd like to see the whole LOTRO UI pulled into DDO so that DDO can get itself out of the 19th century. Mods, skins, individual sizing and scaling of windows, multiple cosmetic displays - all things that DDO is lacking but is available to it just by having the dev teams talk to each other and share knowledge. Get out of the dark ages DDO - if it were not for your unique combat system you would have died long ago.

(and while you are at it learn what a proper crafting system is meant to be like; the DDO psuedo-craft dungeon grind rubbish is a joke)

+1

I 100% agree.

[Therilith]

(and while you are at it learn what a proper crafting system is meant to be like; the DDO psuedo-craft dungeon grind rubbish is a joke)

I still prefer it to some weaksauce "Combine 3 "Basic Leather" to craft a "Basic Leather Helmet" that no one in their right mind would ever buy or use, pray for a skill point, vendor it, repeat".

[Bakalakadaka]

There are opinions as many as there are people. I haven't tried lotro but my friend who likes ddo tried it. He couldn't stand lotro ui, he said he can't play it because it sucks so much.

Before knocking something perhaps you should try it yourself instead of referring to a friend. The LOTRO system is far superior to DDO in almost all ways - the only thing DDO has going for it is its combat method (gotta love running around swinging at things instead of button mashing) and the instancing of dungeons (although LOTRO mobs repop pretty fast so there is none of the Vanguard style "queue for 12 hours and then get ninja'd" stuff). Until they wake up and
a) upgrade the UI
b) create a proper craft system
c) expand the world to include new cities
d) get some new monsters (I mean c'mon, they don't even have the Shambling Mound - the most basic of D&D monsters)
DDO is just going to continue sliding down into obscurity.

I personally disagree, because there is a significant difference between amounts of items you need to keep in your backpack in those two games.

Incorrect - as already pointed out by Backley - you may not understand the outfit system correctly. You do not need to keep the item once it is applied cosmetically, you can sell or bank it. You can even copy it to a special wardrobe seperate from your bank so it can be used by alts and then sell the original. Note that in LOTRO you also use a lot less space in your pack as you are not having to carry 57 different weapon sets to cater for all the different mob types and 200 different potions stacks to handle the buffing required to cater for the op DDO mobs.

I still prefer it to some weaksauce "Combine 3 "Basic Leather" to craft a "Basic Leather Helmet" that no one in their right mind would ever buy or use, pray for a skill point, vendor it, repeat".

Again I can only say try it before you condem it - if you think this is LOTRO crafting you have not tried it. LOTRO crafted items are superior to almost anything you can get via drops or quests. You always get skill increases from any crafting - it is not a random chance and the items are in high demand on the Auction House.

DDO pretend crafting on the other hand is a completeley random thing and provides you with an item you don't need. You have to grind dungeons with the hope that just maybe you will get the right drops and then combine them to create an item which you don't really need and cannot sell. Lets face it if you can grind the dungeon then your gear is already good enough so you don't need the item. By the time you get your +5 Greensteel Black Russian Codpiece of Posing you are already level capped and there is no point playing the game anymore so the item becomes a show piece only - DDO pretend crafting is just elitism at its extreme. And as for randomness just try getting the right effects you want on your Dragon Touched armour - now that is random and totally frustrating.

Turbine if you want to do something serious with DDO then just take all of LOTRO's UI, craft, cosmetic, player music (love it), Auction House, Bank, Wardrobe, transport, guild house and emotes and copy them over to DDO - job done.

[yodino]

Before knocking something perhaps you should try it yourself instead of referring to a friend. The LOTRO system is far superior to DDO in almost all ways - the only thing DDO has going for it is its combat method (gotta love running around swinging at things instead of button mashing) and the instancing of dungeons (although LOTRO mobs repop pretty fast so there is none of the Vanguard style "queue for 12 hours and then get ninja'd" stuff). Until they wake up and
a) upgrade the UI
b) create a proper craft system
c) expand the world to include new cities
d) get some new monsters (I mean c'mon, they don't even have the Shambling Mound - the most basic of D&D monsters)
DDO is just going to continue sliding down into obscurity.



Incorrect - as already pointed out by Backley - you may not understand the outfit system correctly. You do not need to keep the item once it is applied cosmetically, you can sell or bank it. You can even copy it to a special wardrobe seperate from your bank so it can be used by alts and then sell the original. Note that in LOTRO you also use a lot less space in your pack as you are not having to carry 57 different weapon sets to cater for all the different mob types and 200 different potions stacks to handle the buffing required to cater for the op DDO mobs.



Again I can only say try it before you condem it - if you think this is LOTRO crafting you have not tried it. LOTRO crafted items are superior to almost anything you can get via drops or quests. You always get skill increases from any crafting - it is not a random chance and the items are in high demand on the Auction House.

DDO pretend crafting on the other hand is a completeley random thing and provides you with an item you don't need. You have to grind dungeons with the hope that just maybe you will get the right drops and then combine them to create an item which you don't really need and cannot sell. Lets face it if you can grind the dungeon then your gear is already good enough so you don't need the item. By the time you get your +5 Greensteel Black Russian Codpiece of Posing you are already level capped and there is no point playing the game anymore so the item becomes a show piece only - DDO pretend crafting is just elitism at its extreme. And as for randomness just try getting the right effects you want on your Dragon Touched armour - now that is random and totally frustrating.

Turbine if you want to do something serious with DDO then just take all of LOTRO's UI, craft, cosmetic, player music (love it), Auction House, Bank, Wardrobe, transport, guild house and emotes and copy them over to DDO - job done.

Or you could just go over and play LOTRO. If that's your cup of tea, then nothing's stopping you from switching over.

Obviously you haven't played DDO to endgame. They've already changed the randomness of the Dragontouched armor, and by your own words the game ends for you once you hit 20. So Epics, Raiding, Gear farming and TR's are all pointless to you. That's a personal choice, not everyone shares that opinion.

Oh that's right, LOTRO has no endgame.

[Bakalakadaka]

Or you could just go over and play LOTRO. If that's your cup of tea, then nothing's stopping you from switching over.

I do - I play both. After 5 years of DDO I still hang on to the vague hope that something amazing will happen to the game to breathe new life into it. I have learned to deal with disappointment.

Obviously you haven't played DDO to endgame.

I have several times - I just don't see the point of continuing to play a character that already has super-duper gear and has been there and done that. Its a personal preference that I like to keep advancing - and in DDO you just stop and decay.

Oh that's right, LOTRO has no endgame.

Thats correct - because LOTRO is continuously expanding. Just when you have reached the top they add an expansion and off you go again. LOTRO is a whole world and they have yet to even get to Rohan, Gondor or Mordor so plenty of room to move . Meanwhile DDO is just one small city which never changes. They had the perfect opportunity with Half-Elves/Half-Orcs to create a new location with new quests to introduce the new races and they blew it. As always DDO fails to capitalise on opportunity - its always as little effort as possible for as much hype as they can manage.

If you call 'end game' staying the same level and doing the same things over and over again or reincarnating and doing it again from the start then you are welcome to it. For me an MMO should never 'end' - it should keep on growing and being enhanced not just stagnate and milk its profits off the loyalty of its long suffering players.

[jcTharin]

my LOTRO character has this awesome pimp hat from the starting area. all the other hats i have gotten have been really ugly. but i don't care, i have my awesome pimp hat, which is awesome.

awesome pimp hat is awesome.

why cant DDO have nice things?

[yodino]

I do - I play both. After 5 years of DDO I still hang on to the vague hope that something amazing will happen to the game to breathe new life into it. I have learned to deal with disappointment.
Then deal with it. If you can't take it anymore and you want DDO to be a LOTRO clone, guess what? Just go to LOTRO, case closed.



I have several times - I just don't see the point of continuing to play a character that already has super-duper gear and has been there and done that. Its a personal preference that I like to keep advancing - and in DDO you just stop and decay.

Again, your opinion. There's a lot to do in endgame. Tweaking my max-level character with the right gear and the right build while gathering up the best twink gear I can so that I can TR again is my definition of fun. Your definition of fun is different. Don't make it sound like your opinion is the only one that matters



Thats correct - because LOTRO is continuously expanding. Just when you have reached the top they add an expansion and off you go again. LOTRO is a whole world and they have yet to even get to Rohan, Gondor or Mordor so plenty of room to move . Meanwhile DDO is just one small city which never changes. They had the perfect opportunity with Half-Elves/Half-Orcs to create a new location with new quests to introduce the new races and they blew it. As always DDO fails to capitalise on opportunity - its always as little effort as possible for as much hype as they can manage.

Perhaps your looking for the sweeping world explorations from WoW, where you get to see every nook and cranny of the world. Stormreach may be the main staging area, but there are plenty of wildernes areas you can go to. Are you sure you've been to Amrath, Siber Atoll, the Necropolis, The Sands, Gianthold? The way you describe DDO, it's like all the quests are in Stormreach.

The above statement puts your claim that you've experienced DDO's endgame in serious jeopardy.

If you call 'end game' staying the same level and doing the same things over and over again or reincarnating and doing it again from the start then you are welcome to it. For me an MMO should never 'end' - it should keep on growing and being enhanced not just stagnate and milk its profits off the loyalty of its long suffering players.

Answers are in red.

[Bakalakadaka]

Answers are in red.

I laughed - and then I stopped.

As a final word, I note that the people who agree with me that DDO needs to expand its boundaries are those who have been players for many years while those who are happy with weak-sauce are the new comers. When you have also been in the game for 5 years you can comment on what I have and have not seen - until then enjoy your opinions.

[Tirkan]

I laughed - and then I stopped.

As a final word, I note that the people who agree with me that DDO needs to expand its boundaries are those who have been players for many years while those who are happy with weak-sauce are the new comers. When you have also been in the game for 5 years you can comment on what I have and have not seen - until then enjoy your opinions.

DDO -does- need to expand...fortunately, it's doing that. It may not be expanding in the direction you want, but it -is- expanding.

[Entelech]

Actually, I suspect that the problem is not the code. That works fine, seems stable, etc...

I think the problem is that all the artists with a trace of talent are working on LOTRO, and the hacks, dregs, and losers are the ones who got tasked with doing DDO skins for this project. After they finished Half Elves, that is.

The robe from the Mabar event looks AWESOME, and the screenies I've seen of the new named armors from U8 all look good. So maybe it's not as bad as I fear. Maybe the skins coming later will be better.

What worries me is this: Where was the marketing department?

Usually, marketing types are snappy dressers with impeccable fashion sense. They have to be, since it's apparently the only thing they have to be able to wrap their minds around in order to get a Marketing degree. How the HECK did they look at these first skins and let them slide?

This is a launch of a brand-new product line. "Butt-Ugly" shouldn't be anywhere in the vicinity of it, and it's Marketing's job to keep Ugly Betty safely locked in the broom closet for opening night.

[Natashaelle]

Incorrect.

I don't know that game 100%, and I could very well be wrong -- but ; and you're clearly not the one that's done so ; I *do* wish that some people would just stop handing out neg rep because they disagree with someone's opinions ; neg rep is supposed to be for expressing one's feeling that a post is inflammatory, trollish, or otherwise nasty -- not as a means for expressing disagreement with posted opinions.

If people want to say "you're wrong", then posting "you're wrong" is the best means to achieve that ; neg repping being quite clearly one of the worst.

[Bakalakadaka]

I *do* wish that some people would just stop handing out neg rep because they disagree with someone's opinions

Nat - my apologies that this happened to you on a thread I started - I hadn't noticed the neg rep and agree that it should not happen for simply expressing a viewpoint or seeking info. When I started this thread it was with the simple intent of asking that Turbine share info between their teams and learn from each other instead of DDO trying to go it alone and reinventing things which have already been done so successfully on another floor of their own office building. I had not intended for it to start a flame war or bring out the neg-rep stick.

BTW - totally agree with you on wanting the character generation armour sets to be available to players. I really like the idea of a barbarian with an owl bear head strapped to their chest (although since I have yet to see an owlbear in the game outside the skins in Stormhold I have to wonder where it came from).

[Coldin]

This thread has gone a bit negative...but I do believe the main reason they can't bring the cosmetic system from LOTRO is a code issue. The two games, while based off the same engine, developed in such different ways that the code cannot just be copied from one game to another.

Now, I do think the LOTRO system is something the DDO devs should strive for. The outfit system is great. I love that I can wear medium armor, a helm, and a cloak for stats, but appearance wise, my character is dressed up in a fedora and mining backpack.

Maybe some day we'll see something closer to LOTRO's system, but for now, I am happy that something is coming to make my character look a bit different.