Why PVP is important

[DDO_User1]

After playing for a year now, my interest in the game has changed. Now PVP has become much more interesting, because the items that I get for my PVP character have a real tangible effect on my gameplay. Sure, being able to do quests faster is nice, but there is much more interaction with other players when PVP'ing. Facing the same dumbed down mobs in the same quests gets boring, whereas PVP is always exciting and constantly changes based on who you are up against. The interactions within PVP build upon each other and create a whole different type of gameplay that really opened my eyes up to a part of the game that I originally ignored.

I think that having a healthy balance of PVP and PVE is important to an MMO and I hope that the dev's see the need to spend a bit of time improving PVP for the segment of the community that is interested in it.

[flynnjsw]

Yeah...no. Read the "Update 8 No-NO" thread to know why.

[RequiemVampie]

Yeah...no. Read the "Update 8 No-NO" thread to know why.

Yeah, no kidding. Just read that thread. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=285797

I don't need to go into detail here, but h4x might have a new fwiend.

[DDO_User1]

Could you elaborate? I read that thread and still have the same opinion.

[Cernunan]

I think that having a healthy balance of PVP and PVE is important to an MMO and I hope that the dev's see the need to spend a bit of time improving PVP for the segment of the community that is interested in it.

You had my passing dissintrest until here. As a player of 4 years with 2 accounts, who finds the PvE environment one of the best I have ever played of any MMO, I truly hope that the Devs do not considre ANY shape or form of balace for the game between PvE and PvP.
If you enjoy the token PvP system, by all means have fun. The game and its original design was based for group support, that your character is designed to fit a role to support your team against the environment.

That is why there is no balance between clases, it was not meant for such things, and such a thing is inherently impossible with this system.

And that is why people who have supported this game for 4 years like it so much.

If you want a different PvP experience, do not look for it here, do not look to change a game not designed for such things to change from the ground up.
Simply go play a game which was is and will be balanced and designed for such things.

[Carelicoa]

After playing for a year now, my interest in the game has changed. Now PVP has become much more interesting, because the items that I get for my PVP character have a real tangible effect on my gameplay. Sure, being able to do quests faster is nice but there is much more interaction with other players when PVP'ing. Facing the same dumbed down mobs in the same quests gets boring, whereas PVP is always exciting and constantly changes based on who you are up against.The interactions within PVP build upon each other and create a whole different type of gameplay that really opened my eyes up to a part of the game that I originally ignored.

I think that having a healthy balance of PVP and PVE is important to an MMO and I hope that the dev's see the need to spend a bit of time improving PVP for the segment of the community that is interested in it.

Wait, interaction similar to that which one has when grouping with people to beat said mobs, trying new tactics and strategies different from what one uses when soloing?

[DDO_User1]

PVP and PVE are not mutually exclusive, and both areas can be improved without creating balance issues in a PVE environment. I'm not sure why you think that the game would be changed "from the ground up". Is that what you think it requires in order for PVP to be improved upon? I saw someone suggest level-specific PVP arenas - that is a great idea that would not impact PVE whatsoever. There are other examples as well.

[Carelicoa]

There is the argument that any time spent on PvP takes away from the time devs spend on PvE, but it is an old and tired argument.

Instead I look at it like this, a similarly older argument, but a very valid one. I do NOT want this game to turn into a cesspool like WoW. When I check the fora, I see that most of the people supporting PvP are generally guys like h4x and such, who seem to only want to "balance" the characters, and would through that affect PvE play. You run the risk of upsetting a huge player base as well as the entire game when you decide to even change a part of your focus from "having characters that do best when working together" to "having characters whose purpose is to kill each other".
Not only that, but an emphasis on PvP would likely introduce an unsavory element to our game which has so far been limited- the ueber1337 kids who want to do nothing more than be the king of the mountain, with no regards to the actual game. All they want to do is spout flaming, usually misspelled nonsense and be the biggest kid with the best gear so they can brag about it and smack down on lvl 4s who wander into the arena. The same player will then get bored and go questing, only to get completely owned in, let's say, Shan-To-Kor, and then go on a raging rampage because his chara and game knowledge were lacking to perform the duties needed. There is no value to the game added, and a lot of that which I play this game for taken away. I enjoy having a mostly intelligent, erudite, and knowledgeable player base, as well as one that is mature and helpful. I played WoW for a month and it was really horrible. I've been here since the start of this year, and I don't see myself leaving because it is so different from WoW, and because the players are such a better lot.

[justhavinfun]

Still don't see how PvP is important. What do you get from it other than bragging rights for winning, or a reason to cry and scream in the forums for another class to be nerfed because they beat you.

You still have to spend the bulk of your time either soloing or grouping(much better player interaction) to obtain the gear, or the plat to buy the gear so that you can PvP

[protokon]

WHY do people care about pvp so- wait, you almost had me...

[Fishcatch22]

There is the argument that any time spent on PvP takes away from the time devs spend on PvE, but it is an old and tired argument.

Instead I look at it like this, a similarly older argument, but a very valid one. I do NOT want this game to turn into a cesspool like WoW. When I check the fora, I see that most of the people supporting PvP are generally guys like h4x and such, who seem to only want to "balance" the characters, and would through that affect PvE play. You run the risk of upsetting a huge player base as well as the entire game when you decide to even change a part of your focus from "having characters that do best when working together" to "having characters whose purpose is to kill each other".
Not only that, but an emphasis on PvP would likely introduce an unsavory element to our game which has so far been limited- the ueber1337 kids who want to do nothing more than be the king of the mountain, with no regards to the actual game. All they want to do is spout flaming, usually misspelled nonsense and be the biggest kid with the best gear so they can brag about it and smack down on lvl 4s who wander into the arena. The same player will then get bored and go questing, only to get completely owned in, let's say, Shan-To-Kor, and then go on a raging rampage because his chara and game knowledge were lacking to perform the duties needed. There is no value to the game added, and a lot of that which I play this game for taken away. I enjoy having a mostly intelligent, erudite, and knowledgeable player base, as well as one that is mature and helpful. I played WoW for a month and it was really horrible. I've been here since the start of this year, and I don't see myself leaving because it is so different from WoW, and because the players are such a better lot.

This. And WoW can be fun if you never interact with anyone but a few close friends you trust... but we all know that's not going to happen. DDO is a refreshing change from WoW-style gameplay. I don;t want to see it become this.

[DMCain]

PvP just needs to be tossed out on it's ear.

Since PvP was introduced to DDO, there has been an unusually high number of class balances (read 'nerf) to appease the minority PvP'ers. D&D, and by extension, DDO is not designed for PvP. The classes and their associated skills/abilities are designed around mutual support and group play.

If you want PvP, go play warcrap, Eve or any of the F2P games that were actually BUILT and designed for PvP.

Just be happy you got your basic tavern brawl in DDO and leave it at that.

[BossOfEarth]

I think several posters have raised an interesting point, that PvP attracts the wrong kind of crowd. Perhaps someone would like to defend the contrary by pointing out an example of a PvP MMO with the right kind of crowd?

[Fishcatch22]

I think several posters have raised an interesting point, that PvP attracts the wrong kind of crowd. Perhaps someone would like to defend the contrary by pointing out an example of a PvP MMO with the right kind of crowd?

DFO had some of the most balanced PvP I've seen in any MMO. They didn't exactly have an awesome crowd, but they made the game with PvP and made it with every attempt to balance it. Damage was scaled so that everyone did the same amount of damage with their abilities for the most part (though of course someone who was of a higher level would have access to better skills) and was made lower all-around to prolong the battles, and only a few class specs could heal at all, so people abusing heals to stay alive was rare. Of Course DDO is far from being like that game...

[Spisey]

Welcome to the red box club OP.

[Carelicoa]

I think several posters have raised an interesting point, that PvP attracts the wrong kind of crowd. Perhaps someone would like to defend the contrary by pointing out an example of a PvP MMO with the right kind of crowd?

It would be very hard to, and that is from experience. I have watched my fiance play and have played a number of games whose primary focus was PvP or which had a huge element of PvP. Typically, PvP players are one-uppers. Even in a really bad tank mod of some game my fiance played, the PvP element was always one of one-upmanship. These people always had to do better than everyone else, and not in the healthy sense of just wanting to be better- it often became an obsessive and angry thing where these people seemed to put the value of their lives on how well their toon could kill other toons. If they perchance did NOT kill the other toon, all heck broke loose as a result. My assumption after a few years is that a lot of people- not all, but a lot- who put a lot of emphasis on PvP are typically very emotionally/socially immature, and it makes them feel a lot better about themselves to be able to outdo someone, somewhere, even if it's on an online game.

The problem with that is simply that these people are immature, and their immaturity takes away from the game for the rest of us. Yes, I have wandered into the brawling rooms. Yes, I have met a few PvP players who were civilized and fun, but their emphasis was on the game itself and on PvP as a side diversion when they couldn't find an LFG they liked. The real issue lies with those who play PvP almost exclusively, and who have the aforementioned attitude.

[Devonian]

As others have said PvP should not be important, not due to dev time competition with PvE, but the kind of players it attracts. You inevitably get the ganking lowlife 'not interested in competition, just wants to win' type, and they are inevitably vocal. Very few people want, in any way, the impact on the games community that that kind of person has. Right now, its all basicly friendly, and cooperative, but with more pvp focus, more competition and sour feelings of loss, we loose that.

Frankly things like expected healer duties, and raid loot distribution are acrimonious enough without life or death competition, or some ganking twink picking off lowbies to feel big.

[D-molisher]

I wish they totally erase pvp in DDo:
Remove tavern bravl areas,
that way threads like this would stop appearing.
DDo isn´t about pvp, never will be about pvp > and basicly its there by mistake.

[Tsuarok]

I would assume that devs would (and should) look at the percentage of the player base that PVPs, and allocate a similar percentage of resources at improving that area.

The pits are not fun, iMo, but I'd probably play some pvp version of capture the flag.

Appealing to more players and providing more variety brings more players in and keeps them playing longer. Sounds like a good thing to me.

As a note, PVP and PVE are very different in this game. The balancing of one should have utterly no effect on the other. Different areas can just have different rules.

[Carelicoa]

The pits are not fun, iMo, but I'd probably play some pvp version of capture the flag.

Doesn't DDO already have a thing for that? I am sure at one point in time I was leading a group and saw an option to add party members to team red or team blue, but I never looked into it past that.


Also, please don't just assume all PvP is bad. For DDO, it isn't workable because of the game style. but saying all PvP is evil makes it into something it isn't. PvP itself is neutral, it is the players who make it a bad experience.