Why PVP is important

[Rubiconn]

I have read this thread from start to end a couple of times. I fall into the category of not wanting any pvp period but the impression I get is that pvp is a distraction from the "grind" some folks complain about. Maybe instead of devoting time to doing anything with pvp, which only benefits a very small % of the player base, the devs should work diligently on new different content. Not so much the slack and hack chain quests that we already have, but perhaps a gladiatorial arena quest that drops the players into a pit and they make a choice as a party, last man standing or cooperative strategy to escape. Or an adventure that drops all the players in a different spot and they have to work towards each other and something happens, I dont know. Maybe make a PVP wilderness area, like irestone where players can hunt each other down but make it so that when you enter you are put into a level specific area(kind of like the mabar event), 1-4,5-8,9-12,13-17,18-20. Im not a game developer Im a game player.

My personal feeling is, I came to DDO because there was no emphasis on PVP, it got added, I was ok, I am tired of seeing all the threads by a few different users wanting to change the game to help them in the pits.

[justhavinfun]

Granted I do not PvP and am not even remotely interested in at this time. So, why respond to the PvP threads you may ask.
Silence is the same as acceptance. When threads are posted about PvP the majority of them I have seen involve player classes and abilities being changed because someone cannot seem to win a fight in the PvP arenas. If the non-PvP crowd were to sit back and say nothing there is a very good chance that the devs would see these ideas and respond by implementing them if no opposition is voiced. I enjoy my characters the way they are and the only changes I would like to see made to them are ones that improve them.
The abilities in DnD were created with the idea of groups of players using their abilities in unison to overcome their foes not to destroy each other. I agree with all the post that if your goal in your gaming life is to be the most dominate character in the game and able to destroy everyone else there are other games out there that cater to this mentality. If you enjoy grouping and achieving the goals set forth in the game then DDO is for you.

[nanobot1994]

PvP attracts the type of player who, according to self admissions made in that thread, have been suspended twice recently for in game misconduct.

That thread was one of many where he suggested changing things, in ways that would be harmful to the PvE game, and which basically amounted to "nerf anything that hurts me in PvP". He demonstrates well that you can't adjust the game for PvP without damaging PvE because just about every suggestion he has would damage PvE.

Are you saying every PvPer is like that? Im sure Ive met quite a bit of idiots while questing too. Doesnt mean everyone who quests is an idiot does it?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Are you saying every PvPer is like that? Im sure Ive met quite a bit of idiots while questing too. Doesnt mean everyone who quests is an idiot does it?

I never said that.

Everything is based on averages, and on average I've seen more of that from PvPers and in PvP focussed games.

Oh god....

Just so no one gets me confused for this guy. Hes Dispel I'm Arecane. Saying this because his lv and spell are exactly mine, cept I don't make a fail thread a day...

Seriously, H4X. Just quit talking about pvp, if its removed, you killed it for everyone whos perfectly fine with pvp as it is.

See that's the issue... I had never seen such anti-PvP hate until he came around spewing his "suggestions" that are you put them are daily fail threads and talking his "game" that made me pretty confident he wasn't in highschool yet. We don't need more of this, we don't want more of this, its bad for the game community and the gameplay.

[flynnjsw]

Are you saying every PvPer is like that? Im sure Ive met quite a bit of idiots while questing too. Doesnt mean everyone who quests is an idiot does it?

You create more PvP, you create more H4X/Dispel. One is enough.

[Stormanne]

I have a few ideas. Some are poached and regurgitated from other posters.

Break the brawling pits up based on level. It would take minimal programming as opposed to some of the other suggestions. The only people this negatively affects are those that get a kick out of ganking player characters that are five or more levels lower (ie, the wrong kind of players).

Even though I do not PvP, it is a rather bland feature in DDO, even if it is an afterthought. In the PvP arena matches (does anyone actually use these?) make all the spells and skills work appropriately. Also, add more environments for the arenas.

And, finally. Make PvP a VIP only perk. Not available in the DDO store. Make it so that if players actually want to challenge and fight other players and have Turbine make and maintain PvP related changes to the game, they have to be willing to pay for that privilege in a sustaining manner. These changes would be long term and if the players want them, they should be willing to pay for them long term.

[Khanyth]

I've never Pvp'd, but I've always seen it as:

1. high level chars beating up on low lvl chars
2. something that fulfills a niche market
3. something that certain people do and if you want to do it, fine.

I agree with the segregation by level idea similar to the Mabar event.

other than that, devs really shouldn't waste their time on it

[Devonian]

And, finally. Make PvP a VIP only perk. Not available in the DDO store. Make it so that if players actually want to challenge and fight other players and have Turbine make and maintain PvP related changes to the game, they have to be willing to pay for that privilege in a sustaining manner. These changes would be long term and if the players want them, they should be willing to pay for them long term.

Bad idea. Baaaaad idea. We explicitly do not want Hax and his phylum gaining the sense of entitlement that would arise from this.

That said, I do think that if it was done right, it may have something to offer. If you based it on the Team Fortress dynanic of teamed, class based pvp there could be something there. Was it a direction the Devs wished to explore.

But only if any pvp centric balance changes were fixed to have no pve impact. though as this would basicly amunt to 2 paralell games, its too huge an endevor to try.

[flynnjsw]

IMO, if you are going to separate it by level, instead of trying to do it per instance per tavern, just make it so only certain levels can PvP in certain Taverns. For example;

Wayward Lobster 1-5
Phoenix 6-10
Drowning Sorrows 11-15
Bogwater Tavern 16-20

[Stormanne]

Bad idea. Baaaaad idea. We explicitly do not want Hax and his phylum gaining the sense of entitlement that would arise from this.

I don't think they would develop any more of a sense of entitlement than what the other VIP's have. Bad ideas are still going to be bad ideas and will be judged as such by the community at large.

As it is, and h4x is my primary example and should not be mistaken for the PvP community as a whole, the players that are like h4x are trying to get the most out of the game for the least amount of money possible and are not usually willing to subscribe. If the driving focus of the game for them is PvP, whereas the community at large focuses on PvE, and that focus were to be made into a VIP only perk; they would either have to pay for the service or leave. In other words, they want the game changed in their favor, but do not wish to pay for it. My idea makes them put their money where their mouth is. And it makes them do so in a sustaining manner that would at least coincide with the longevity of the changes they wish made.

[loki_3369]

Frankly, pvp isn't important. However, it is found enjoyable to some. As I've said before I don't want ddo to become a pvp based game, but I still find it ridiculous that everyone starts whining the second anything about pvp is discussed. There's much more posts of loot "ninja's" that are worse than alot of the pvp threads. All those "ninja looter" posts have caused change, but directly affects pve.

The pvp threads may have a small impact on some nerfs, but i think it's quite naive to blame them for all, or even most, of the recent nerfs. I seriously doubt the ToD "nerf" was directly caused from pvp. It's not as if it was only unbalanced in pvp. 500 points of pierce damage, unaffected by dr, every 15 seconds seems very balanced for pve doesn't it? (Sarcasm.) People will whine to not balance <debated subject here> all the time, usually because they have a character that uses said subject all the time and their builds use it as a crutch. I'd hate to turn this into another one of those ToD nerf threads, but it seems to be a good example to me.

While there may be more trolls in pvp, I've personally come across the same amount, if not more, in pve. There is only two or three pvpers that I can't stand, whereas the pve list goes well beyond that.

Bads are everywhere. Pvp isn't all negative. It isn't always higher levels picking on lower levels, it isn't always cheap tactics, it isn't always ub3r 1337 people trash talking all the time. I don't deny that those things take place, but I've seen the same attitude in pve. High levels telling lower levels they're noobs because they don't know something, anyone who is highly geared declining someone based off of myddo, telling people they're an idiot because they don't know how to run something on their first try. Should I start classifying all that participate in pve as Bads based on the many I've encountered? Stereotyping a group of people based off of the minority of them you've come into contact with doesn't get you anywhere, and is the path of ignorance.

And yes, some people do pve for the people, but there are also people in pvp (Yes, I said there ARE nonBads in pvp)

It's the Bads of pvp that keep posting the "nerf this" or "nerf that" threads that are going to ruin pvp for those who enjoy it as it is. I wouldn't say pvp is important, but I also wouldn't classify it as completely unimportant. Sure, it isn't a pvp based game, and it's better off that way. But if people find pvp enjoyable, why ***** and moan about it. You don't have to participate in pvp. You don't have to listen to people troll. /squelch add ____ is your friend.

[AyumiAmakusa]

It's not important in this game specifically.

Other games, yes.

This game, no.

[Zonefire]

I never found PvP to be important but some people do enjoy it. However, real pain comes from when people complain that you used a good move to kill me. Some friends of mine who like to pvp would use the monk ToD before it was nerfed. An entire guild tried to blacklist there guild cause they said they were beating up lowbies. Its PvP arena. If you step in and are a low level, be prepared to get ganked.

Now ToD got nerfed and now I have to listen to so many darkside monks complain about it, saying it ruined it for them in PvE.

It is impossible to balance PvP and PvE so really they shouldn't even try. Instead if people want to PvP, make a char designed to PvP. Its not that hard.

[Pape_27]

Though pvp is broken in DDO, it's still relatively fun for many people and some changes to it can be done without any gigantic impacts on pve.

See, here's the thing though. PvP in DDO isnt broken. It's WAI.

PvP at best is a momentary distraction. People use the pvp pits for many different reasons. Some want to see how their new gear works. Some want to test new spells, some want to test saves and tolerances, some want to see if they are better than other players in the game.

I would say, in DDO, more that any other game, PvP is truely a challenge of skill, strategy and tactics. Why? because in the other games, the playing field is leveled. Its a race for gear, thats about it. Get Item A to stop Item B's effects. In DDO, you know that there are strengths and weakenesses to each class. Its up to you to figure out how to exploit them.

Instead, what happens? People who aren't used to such a system cry foul, saying its broken and needs to be fixed. So instead of focusing on becoming better, they become the Boys Who Cry Wolf. Change this, nerf that, why? because thats how they did it in WoW etc.

So, No, pvp in ddo isnt broken. Its working as intended.


_

[wax_on_wax_off]

You had my passing dissintrest until here. As a player of 4 years with 2 accounts, who finds the PvE environment one of the best I have ever played of any MMO, I truly hope that the Devs do not considre ANY shape or form of balace for the game between PvE and PvP.
If you enjoy the token PvP system, by all means have fun. The game and its original design was based for group support, that your character is designed to fit a role to support your team against the environment.

That is why there is no balance between clases, it was not meant for such things, and such a thing is inherently impossible with this system.

And that is why people who have supported this game for 4 years like it so much.

If you want a different PvP experience, do not look for it here, do not look to change a game not designed for such things to change from the ground up.
Simply go play a game which was is and will be balanced and designed for such things.

I love group play, why can't some PVP arenas that are designed for group play be implemented? I think having a king of the hill or capture the flag map available would be awesome fun to get a bunch of guildies to play. It would be PVP but it would be what is described here as the original intent of the game: "group support".

[gurgar78]

Why PVP is Important:

It allows us to quickly and accurately add names to our DNG list? =P

[Chai]

Sure, being able to do quests faster is nice, but there is much more interaction with other players when PVP'ing.

If by "more interaction" you mean it takes less than 10 seconds to die, then it takes upwards of 45 minutes to argue about how cheap the kill was in general area wide chat, complete with insults and fingerpointing, then yes, PVP is by far more interactive than PVE.

Meanwhile, in other news, general chat in the harbor is worse than reality TV. Those of us trying to post a few auctions before work can browse it for a few minutes and have a very clear understanding why most experienced players in this game could care less if PVP just shriveled up and disappeared.

Its not the PVP itself we dont like, its this "interaction" thing you speak of, which is better defined as a dingus waving contest.

Tavern brawls on boats FTW.

[Notajedi]

Pvppffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttt.

But if you enjoy it, more power to you.

You gain no favor.
You gain no loot.
You gain no guild reputation.
You gain no EXP.

You do gain notoriety of a sort.

PVP is not what I am interested in.

[Chai]

I love group play, why can't some PVP arenas that are designed for group play be implemented? I think having a king of the hill or capture the flag map available would be awesome fun to get a bunch of guildies to play. It would be PVP but it would be what is described here as the original intent of the game: "group support".

If we can have capture the flag like it is in WOW, where you can only talk to your team but not the other team, then its a deal. I like cap the flag too, but one session of cap the flag followed by 2 hours of crying about the other teams tactics isnt my style. PVP needs its own channel system where players are only allowed to talk to their team only, and this needs to be separate from general chat.

[PopeJual]

If we can have capture the flag like it is in WOW, where you can only talk to your team but not the other team, then its a deal. I like cap the flag too, but one session of cap the flag followed by 2 hours of crying about the other teams tactics isnt my style.

But but but... you used tactics and strategies! That's cheating! You're not supposed to engage in effective actions while playing a game! You just run at each other and yell PEW PEW PEW.

Anything else is just exploiting.