New Epic Scroll System Isn't Bad...

[Amber-Dawnn]

Unless your a loot ninja.
Loot ninjas are the only people that should have an issue with this.

If someone gets the scroll and can't use it then they can roll it off at the end/that very moment OR sell it on AH were you can then have a second chance at getting it. (Second because the server rolled for you first chance.)
If they can use it then grads their grind just got less grindy.

[stoolcannon]

no

[dunklezhan]

I'm confused. I've seen numerous posts complaining that scrolls dropping as available for anyone is a bad thing because of ninja looting. So now they make it so that they are randomised and just allocated to players... and that's a bad thing?

Can someone answer me these questions so I can try to understand the issue better please:

1. Is it better, or worse, then them just dropping onto the floor for any passing ninja to pick up?

2. Why?

3. What would be better?

I've not played epic so I have no preconception here. Just want to understand better.

thanks

[Amber-Dawnn]

no

From this I'd HAVE to assume you're a ninja.

Why else would anyone be upset about this other then the fact you can't make extra money ninja-ing all the scrolls?

[kernal42]

From this I'd HAVE to assume you're a ninja.

Why else would anyone be upset about this other then the fact you can't make extra money ninja-ing all the scrolls?

There's no reason to be upset by this.

A group that normally rolls based on need is saved the trouble of picking up the scrolls (including hard to reach ones).

A group that normally rolls on everything to trade is saved the trouble of rolling.

A group that normally ninja-loots...well okay, maybe they have complaints.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Tsuarok]

I assume the people who are upset are either ninjas or those that feel certain classes shouldn't be able to roll on certain scrolls.

Either type annoy me, so I'm thrilled with the change.

[kernal42]

I assume the people who are upset are either ninjas or those that feel certain classes shouldn't be able to roll on certain scrolls.

Either type annoy me, so I'm thrilled with the change.

Yep - that opinion is antiquated considering they're unbound and easily traded.

I, for one, welcome our scrollbotic overlords!

Er, I mean, the new scroll mechanism....

-Kernal

[Sirea]

I assume the people who are upset are either ninjas or those that feel certain classes shouldn't be able to roll on certain scrolls.

Either type annoy me, so I'm thrilled with the change.

I'm neither, but I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about the change.

[BossOfEarth]

[QUOTE=dunklezhan;3409333]Can someone answer me these questions so I can try to understand the issue better please:

Since you say you haven't done Epic! yet, it's basicaly the same system (and problems) as adamantium ore in A Relic of a Sovereign Past, or the control stones in Hound of Xoriat. An unscrupulous player can run in and grab stuff while everyone else is playing fair.

1. Is it better, or worse, then them just dropping onto the floor for any passing ninja to pick up?
Worse.

2. Why?
A. I don't care for Mabar style looting. Getting stuff dumped in my bag is not as exciting as hitting something until treasure falls on the ground.
B. Pikers. Again with the Mabar: remember all those pikey pikers piking everything? Now on leet.
C. Pikers. Again with the Mabar: pikers are a black hole, they don't put stuff up for roll.

3. What would be better?
A. The current system is fine. Hit it with an axe until treasure gushes out of it's head onto the dusty ground.
B. The current system plus an announcement of who looted what. That way groups can play it how they want. Parties with a designated looter can make sure that only the designated looter is grabbing scrolls. Parties that are goofing around can get bragging rights whenever they ninja a scroll.
C. A better do-not group function would be great. We've got reputation on the forums but not in game, at least not officialy.

That said, I'll be very glad to be rid of the loot ninjas. It's infuriating to have them pretend to be deaf and blind to chat and voice. I guess I'm for it and against it -- like those ugly no-pigeon spikes they put on buildings.

[sirgog]

I assume the people who are upset are either ninjas or those that feel certain classes shouldn't be able to roll on certain scrolls.

Either type annoy me, so I'm thrilled with the change.

Interestingly the second type of people will never put their Large Shrapnels up for roll when playing a non-melee, even though melees need more Shrapnels than they need Scales, but non-melees need almost none of them.

But if something *they* want drops - suddenly it's all 'need before greed'.

[stoolcannon]

I don't like it because now I won't get a chance to roll on the scrolls I'll have to find them in the AH and pay out the aynus.

Loot ninjas are EXACTLY the people that this benefits only now I have no chance of catching them in the act.

So if paying horrible prices in the AH is your cup of tea then I guess this update is for you.

If getting the chance to roll on something is your cup of tea, then this is not for you.

And I don't subscribe to the odds being the same either way. I see people abstain from rolls all the time and this removes that choice by default.

[stoolcannon]

I for one will still put scrolls for roll and hope people follow suit.

[TheDearLeader]

Loot ninjas are EXACTLY the people that this benefits only now I have no chance of catching them in the act.

I'm leading a ToD right now, otherwise I would locate the post where Eladrin has already stated that there will be a dialogue notification alerting you to x scroll going to y player. This concern is a nonissue.

[Wrendd]

I don't like it because now I won't get a chance to roll on the scrolls I'll have to find them in the AH and pay out the aynus.

Loot ninjas are EXACTLY the people that this benefits only now I have no chance of catching them in the act.

So if paying horrible prices in the AH is your cup of tea then I guess this update is for you.

If getting the chance to roll on something is your cup of tea, then this is not for you.

And I don't subscribe to the odds being the same either way. I see people abstain from rolls all the time and this removes that choice by default.

(red highlight for emphisis)
I do not understand this. As it is currently (live) you can grab a scroll off the ground and no one will know unless they saw it at your feet. With the new system, when a scroll is "dropped" a message will appear saying (words to the effect of) "Stoolcannon has found a Scroll of the Docent of Grace". So the whole party will know that one dropped and who got it.

Now, if the person who gets a valuable scroll decides to not allow the party to roll for it... well, that is his choice (his loot, his decision) but I would expect that most groups of friends/guildies will find no functional difference from this style of scroll distribution and the one we currently have. As long as the scrolls are unbound then they can be traded at will.

[Bilger]

I'm leading a ToD right now, otherwise I would locate the post where Eladrin has already stated that there will be a dialogue notification alerting you to x scroll going to y player. This concern is a nonissue.

It is a non issue true you will know who gets it but then it becomes your loot is your loot situation even if person who receives it don't need.

Alot will put up for roll if don't need but alot won't and will say my loot is my loot and they will be right and then ya have to get from AH. Unless running with guildies.

I have np with it but it is going to cause alot of drama just like that post on thelanis forums which last checked is over or at around 25 pages.

Your loot is your loot and that will be bottom line now.

[valerieanne]

Interestingly the second type of people will never put their Large Shrapnels up for roll when playing a non-melee, even though melees need more Shrapnels than they need Scales, but non-melees need almost none of them.

But if something *they* want drops - suddenly it's all 'need before greed'.

Except not many people play casters exclusively, and even if they did, they'd *still* need shrapnels

[valerieanne]

I don't like it because now I won't get a chance to roll on the scrolls I'll have to find them in the AH and pay out the aynus.

Loot ninjas are EXACTLY the people that this benefits only now I have no chance of catching them in the act.

So if paying horrible prices in the AH is your cup of tea then I guess this update is for you.

If getting the chance to roll on something is your cup of tea, then this is not for you.

And I don't subscribe to the odds being the same either way. I see people abstain from rolls all the time and this removes that choice by default.

You're not looking at the bigger picture here. It's been said in another thread, you've HAD your chance at rolling, and you lost your roll, hence the scroll went to the highest roller (done by the system).

I personally like the new system. I don't live in the States, and my latency is worse than almost anyone who lives in the States, hence most of the time, I never even see a scroll before someone loots it. In the same way, if someone ninjas it, I'd never know

[Amber-Dawnn]

I don't like it because now I won't get a chance to roll on the scrolls I'll have to find them in the AH and pay out the aynus.

Loot ninjas are EXACTLY the people that this benefits only now I have no chance of catching them in the act.

So if paying horrible prices in the AH is your cup of tea then I guess this update is for you.

If getting the chance to roll on something is your cup of tea, then this is not for you.

And I don't subscribe to the odds being the same either way. I see people abstain from rolls all the time and this removes that choice by default.

Because the server KNOWNS who the loot ninjas are and will anyways give them the high roll.....orrr maybe you just don't get the whole you get a roll you just don't have to type it in.

[Dragonhyde]

biggest issue I see will be people either not putting up which type of epic farming run it is(either rolling on all scrolls or not) or people joining a run that stated their rules and then complain.

[kernal42]

I for one will still put scrolls for roll and hope people follow suit.

You're doing it wrong.

I don't like it because now I won't get a chance to roll on the scrolls I'll have to find them in the AH and pay out the aynus.

So if paying horrible prices in the AH is your cup of tea then I guess this update is for you.

If getting the chance to roll on something is your cup of tea, then this is not for you.

And you're not understanding the system. You're suggesting that with the new system, you will never get scrolls. That is simply incorrect. You'll get the scroll 1/6 of the time. If you're getting scrolls more often than that now, you're being greedy, selfish, or a loot ninja. And if your group likes to allocate scrolls *unfairly* (which is to say, via some method which gives different party members *inequal* chances at loot, for example "need before greed"), then you are still free to distribute scrolls in that way.

Finally, if your doomsaying is correct and people will greedily (and rightfully) keep scrolls they can't use to sell on the AH, this will probably *lower* the prices of scrolls due to the increase in people trying to sell them.

-Kernal