Dilettante selection for Helf Rogue: advice please

[WirelessJoe]

I'll start with a caveat: I'm as inexperienced as they get in build planning.

That said, I'm rolling up a dex-based Helf assassin rogue (just because) and would appreciate some input on what dilettante feat to select. I was first thinking about taking Fighter for the martial weapon access, but I don't see that being very useful at end game where assassins usually rely on vorpal strikes, and weapon proficiency isn't as important. I also thought about taking Wizard, but it seems that there isn't much to Wizard dilettante that a good UMD number doesn't also take care of. Same for UMD and Ranger, plus I won't be ranging so the +2 ranged damage doesn't sound appealing.

Any advice on what I should take, or information on benefits I'm missing for taking one feat or the other? Is there a huge damage increase for a martial weapon that overshadows finessed rapiers? Are there wands/scrolls I'm not thinking of that can't be used normally without Wiz/Ranger dilettante feats?

[Robi3.0]

Monk is nice for wis boost to AC, but that is something you have to commit to

Pally is good for a CHA boost to saves and is less of a commitment then monk since you will probably want CHA for UMD.

and then there is Barb is which is good cause HP is awesome and is easy to get since if you start with less then 14 CON the DDO community will collectively punch you in the balls.

Any of these are fine choices.

[WirelessJoe]

Monk is nice for wis boost to AC, but that is something you have to commit to

Pally is good for a CHA boost to saves and is less of a commitment then monk since you will probably want CHA for UMD.

and then there is Barb is which is good cause HP is awesome and is easy to get since if you start with less then 14 CON the DDO community will collectively punch you in the balls.

Any of these are fine choices.

Where would the extra CHA points come from for pally? I was going to start at STR14 DEX16 CON14 INT16 WIS8 CHA8, so I have to pull 5 points from somewhere else.

[LunaCee]

INT, rogue has so many skill points as it is already. You don't need that high an INT score unless you are going to be going mechanic and need extra damage on your repeater shots from a higher INT score.

I'd say go 13 INT and munch a +1 INT tome at 3rd level. That will get you your 5 build points easily enough.

[Tanlaus]

Looks liek they're adding the dillitente enhancement lines in update 8.

[Robi3.0]

INT, rogue has so many skill points as it is already. You don't need that high an INT score unless you are going to be going mechanic and need extra damage on your repeater shots from a higher INT score.

I'd say go 13 INT and munch a +1 INT tome at 3rd level. That will get you your 5 build points easily enough.

This is good advice. You could also consider dropping int to 14 and str to 13 (eat +1 str whenever you get one) for those extra 5 points.

I like skill points and doing it this way insure you will get the most possible, since you may not have a +1 tome to eat at lvl 3. Str is important don't get me wrong, but it is less level dependent then int is. You can eat a str tome when ever you loot or buy one and it would have little effect on your build, in the long run.

[Zansobar]

Monk is nice for wis boost to AC, but that is something you have to commit to

Pally is good for a CHA boost to saves and is less of a commitment then monk since you will probably want CHA for UMD.

and then there is Barb is which is good cause HP is awesome and is easy to get since if you start with less then 14 CON the DDO community will collectively punch you in the balls.

Any of these are fine choices.

One problem with the Barb line...it only adds +20 hp with your AP investment...problem is if you go human and take an additional toughness feat with your free feat you gain more than 20 hp and you don't have to spend AP points. I think the Devs need to rethink that line...remember it's always in comparison to humans so are the enhancements giving you more or different impacts beyond what a feat can give, else no point in Half Elf over human.

[QuantumFX]

Are there wands/scrolls I'm not thinking of that can't be used normally without Wiz/Ranger dilettante feats?

The question to ask is: Are there wands/scrolls that I won’t have easy access to without UMD gear. While a 40 UMD (Benchmark for heal scrolls, and level 11 energy resist wand.) is possible by the time you hit level 20 it’s not easy and it’s usually a burst and buffed effect. And, it’s not something that a new player is going to have an easy time reaching.

The ranger feat (Without enhancements) will grant you 100% wand usage on the following:
- Cure Light, Moderate and Serious Wounds wands
- All Stat buff wands except Bulls Str, Foxes Cunning and Eagle's Splendor
- Remove Disease, Remove Paralysis, Neutralize Poison
- Energy Resistance + Protection from Energy (all levels).
The only scrolls you will want to use are Longstrider, and Freedom of Movement (A rare scroll and you will still have approx a 75% chance to use at Ranger III)

The paladin feat will grant you the following 100% wand usage:
- Cure Light, Moderate and Serious Wounds
- All stat buffs except Bears Endurance and Foxes Cunning
- Magic Circle against Evil
- Energy Resistance + Protection from Energy (all levels)
- Remove Blindness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Paralysis, Neutralize Poison
- Lesser Restoration.
There are no scrolls you will want to use unless there is a hidden caster level boost in which case you will have some success with Restoration scrolls.

The cleric feat will grant you everything the paladin feat grants plus:
- Cure Critical Wounds
- Bear's Endurance
- Recitation
- Searing Light
- Shield of Faith, Aid (And Mass Versions)
As you gain enhancements you will be able to hit 100% usage of the following scrolls: (Note: You will have success with the scroll version of wands I mentioned above, but in reality the wands are much easier to use/get access to.)
Lvl 1 - Remove Fear, Summon Monster I
Lvl 2 - Find Traps (It's a +1 to search that you won't get anywhere else.), Summon Monster II
Lvl 3 - Summon Monster III
Lvl 4 - Deathward (Rare in scroll form), Divine Power, Freedom of Movement (Another rare scroll), Restoration, Summon Monster IV
Lvl 5 - Mass Cure Light Wounds (Kinda Meh as you won't have Scroll enhancements to back it up.), Protection from Elements (*VERY* useful), Raise Dead, Spell Resistance, Trueseeing, Summon Monster V
Lvl 6 (These scrolls will only have a 95% success rate) - Create Undead (Rare scroll), Greater Dispel Magic (Most ppl don’t know when to use this.), Heal, Heroes Feast, Mass Cure Moderate, Summon Monster VI
Lvl 7 (IIRC these should be an 75% success rate) - Greater Restoration, Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Mass Prot from Elements, Mass Restoration, Mass Spell Resistance, Resurrection (Rare/Expensive scroll), Summon Monster VII

The wizard feat will grant you the following wands:
- Resist and Protection from Energy (All caster levels)
- Blur (All caster levels)
- Stoneskin
- Shield (All caster levels)
- Repair Light-Critical (Marginal use as you’re not a warforged.)
You also gain scroll usage. But that will have to wait until I get home.

One problem with the Barb line...it only adds +20 hp with your AP investment...

It adds more than that. Barb CON I Stacks with Human Adaptability.

[Zansobar]

It adds more than that. Barb CON I Stacks with Human Adaptability.

Ok i was referring to the toughness line only...but yes that is a plus, you could get +40 hp for the cost of 9 APs, or more correctly about +18 hp over a human at the cost of +9 APs.

[Dylvish]

****NOTE: With U8, you will be able to respec out of your Dille feat to a different one later on. So, for example, if you start off with a 10 or 11 in a stat (like wisdom), and get a +tome later on to hit 13, you can respec to a new dilletante that may fit what you want more.

That being said, I personally kinda like the following for rogue. (I avoid almost all of the caster dills because rogue gets UMD)

-Monk: If you are any kind of dex or ac build, up to +5 more AC is not a terrible thing. The +20% healing amp is also a nice bonus. +1 wis (hey, for 2 AP its not terrible, just listing it )

-Barbarian: +1 Con, 2 toughness enhances, up to 3DR/-

-Fighter: All martial weapons (love that myself), +2 DC for stun / trip (if you go for a build that uses it).

-Paladin: Up to +5 CHA bonus to saves (huge for evasion and traps), +1 CHA


There are a lot of options out there, but the 4 above are my personal favorites for rogue. Each offers its own advantages, depending on your build and playstyle. That is something you will have to choose for yourself.

[platonicx]

Ok i was referring to the toughness line only...but yes that is a plus, you could get +40 hp for the cost of 9 APs, or more correctly about +18 hp over a human at the cost of +9 APs.

If you take 2 toughness feats on a rogue you will be so gimped ... geez

[spitfirek]

For rogue I personally like paladin. You start with 13 cha, get the +1 enhancement from paladin dily and get +6 from gear which will give you the +5 to all saves, with improved evasion and slippery mind I dont see how you could pass this up. Plus you get access to a lot of healing wands/scrolls with paladin until your UMD is high.