Epic Scroll - Interactive Distribution Mechanics (IDM)

[Goldeneye]

I have the horrible tendency to trust people.
Understand that value of cooperation is one of the aspects that sets ddo aside from many other MMO's.

[bryanmeerkat]

I have the horrible tendency to trust people.
Understand that value of cooperation is one of the aspects that sets ddo aside from many other MMO's.

Good as that sentiment is it is likely you have been ripped off many times and will continue to be . When running with guildies a share and share alike mentality is fine and this system no way hinders this . You all still have the ability to pass stuff to others if you want . But in pugs youwill likely get ripped off time and time again .

[Cyr]

This assumes all players are greedy.

Where is the greed involved in having the base assumption that everyone will want something that is of value and can be freely given away or traded? There is no harm here in the system the developers set up as if someone gets the scroll they can merely give it away or call for a roll just like now.

There is however a big downside to the LOTRO style pass/roll system and that is spammy boxes that pop up at just the wrong time interferring with game play. I played LOTRO and I've played DDO and the LOTRO loot mechanic was annoying to the extreme, but due to the large amount of class restricted loot in the game and huge amount bound loot needed.

[bryanmeerkat]

If one person acts from a postion of greed and 5 people use need/greed truthfully then the one person acting from greed gets more than his fair share .

If six people truly use need/greed then everyone gets an equal share.

If six people truly act using greedy tendancys everyone gets an equal share.

Which of the two above mindsets can you be sure is occuring ?
There is no easy way to be sure someone isnt lying when they call need.
There is a very easy way to see if someone is telling the truth when they say greed .

As the items are equally valuable to everyone in the party using any system to define need is flawed .
Everyone has need of an item that is an obvious upgrade or an item that can quickly be traded to become an equally obvious upgrade .

And another example of a flaw in your system is the 18/2 fighter cleric

Does he need that uber fighter equipment ?
Does he need that uber cleric equipment ?

If you answer no to either no.1 or no .2 then his opinion may differ to yours . This will cause conflict.
If you answer yes to both of these he has now effectively got twice the chance of getting a good item as he can roll both times compared to a standard cleric or standard fighter who only gets to roll once .

What about an item that is awesome for a rogue , but quite good for a fighter ? Who gets to decide who rolls then ? Maybe the guy whos group it is ? Maybe he rules in favour of his guild/partner or friend ?

[KristovK]

I can only vouch for my epics, but if you roll on a scroll that you're not going to use - chances are, you're not welcome in my group any more. It's common courtesy, need before greed.

ESoS scroll drops, my Wiz wants to roll on it, but according to you, that's not right?

My Wiz is going to TR as a Barb, he already has a SoS sitting in the bank waiting with the shard and seal. Guess you aren't as right as you thought.

Sorry, but the need/greed thing went out the door the moment we had TR added to the game, some of you folks REALLY need to get in step with the game we're playing NOW, not the game we played a few years back.

[kernal42]

With this change imminent, I guess it's too late for me to make a sorc/barb/rogue to justify rolling on all scrolls, but soley out of "need."

Such chances lost!

-Kernal

[Asketes]

I can only vouch for my epics, but if you roll on a scroll that you're not going to use - chances are, you're not welcome in my group any more. It's common courtesy, need before greed.

Mr. 6 pairs of Madstone Boots.


you never use this logic b/c you know that people have alts. Now if you say: i'm rolling on this cuz i'm gonna sell the scroll; then of course, no one is going to give it to you if you win.


it just sucks that instead of allocating the leader or someone in specific for the scroll collection, it's more random.

what if you get someone who just doesn't notice it, or doesn't speak engrish?

at least when the leader is collecting, they can link the scroll and say roll.. most understand that

[kernal42]

it just sucks that instead of allocating the leader or someone in specific for the scroll collection, it's more random.

what if you get someone who just doesn't notice it, or doesn't speak engrish?

at least when the leader is collecting, they can link the scroll and say roll.. most understand that

...but, why would you bother rolling again? The roll has already been performed.

[Narmolanya]

Not sure wht they cant incorporate Lotro's Mechanic.

you get a Pop up thats says "ITEM XXX, Roll or Pass"

Click Roll, after a few seconds, the game rolls and deposits the Item in the winners Inventory.

This is the way it should be and I see no reason it isn't.

[Angelus_dead]

Now if you say: i'm rolling on this cuz i'm gonna sell the scroll; then of course, no one is going to give it to you if you win.

Only if those people are obnoxious bullies. If an item is freely tradable, then no kind of character is more or less entitled to it than anyone else.

There is no such thing as a character type that "can't use" an epic scroll, because the use of epic scrolls is trading currency to exchange for what you want.

It's like if someone pulls a +5 Vorpal Scimitar of Righteousness; no party member should expect or demand to be given it, unless you're making a claim that the player wasn't contributing to the quest and didn't deserve any kind of loot.

[Hambo]

some jerk just stole a cloak scroll in our chronoscope run and nobody knows who it was for sure so basically everyone around the area of the drop got blacklisted by the various guilds there. Luckily I was around the corner or I'd be in the same boat. This and the eardweller free for all is beyond stupid and needs to be changed. Why would they possibly ever not be individually viewable like every other collectable bag drop? What reason could there possible by to let the first person who grabs it get it besides to start fights?

I'm trying to run epics in the sands for a scroll of the ring of spell storing but I know **** well anyone who picks it up before me isn't putting it up for roll like they agreed to at the beginning of the quest. That of course means I'd be inclined not to put it up for roll either. I don't particularly trust anyone with an SP bar farming eardwellers with me either and those are barely soloable on elite. Everything about this system is stupid.

P.S. I soloed the opening parts of partycrasher for about 3 hours today and got approx 5 scrolls that are ALL MINE! Mwa ha ha ha. You know what they always say: If you want something not stolen, you have to do it yourself.

Hey!!!

According to some of the attitudes I've seen expressed in this and similar posts, you have to put those up for roll by the entire population of your server! It's just not fair that someone could get that many scrolls all to themselves...

[Hambo]

How is DDO rolling dice on the computer any different when I type in /roll d whatever vs the computer just automatically rolling I still don't get to use my dice or my hands.

...and the same random number generator generates both results.

[Auran82]

...and the same random number generator generates both results.

Just remember, it's not random unless there is a nice even distribution, right? Right???

[Hambo]

I can only vouch for my epics, but if you roll on a scroll that you're not going to use - chances are, you're not welcome in my group any more. It's common courtesy, need before greed.

And how do you determine that I don't need it? Or whatever benefit I can get by selling or trading it?

Need is relative, and as for greed...

The only greed I see in these posts comes from those who seem to think they have some devinely bestowed right to someone elses' reward.

After reading all of these posts I think I will approach any items I put up for roll as a raffle... That would be fair to everyone, as they could then buy as many chances as they think it would take to get my loot.

[PopeJual]

Just remember, it's not random unless there is a nice even distribution, right? Right???

I dearly wish I could get my students to understand that this is not true.

I struggle to convince some of them that my giving them $3 on a die roll of 6 and their giving me $1 on a die roll from 1-5 is a bad bet for them.

"But you're giving me more money than I'm giving you!"

[PopeJual]

It's like if someone pulls a +5 Vorpal Scimitar of Righteousness;

U R not a melee! U dun ned teh swords! giv it 2 meh!

[Hambo]

Mr. 6 pairs of Madstone Boots.


you never use this logic b/c you know that people have alts. Now if you say: i'm rolling on this cuz i'm gonna sell the scroll; then of course, no one is going to give it to you if you win.


it just sucks that instead of allocating the leader or someone in specific for the scroll collection, it's more random.

what if you get someone who just doesn't notice it, or doesn't speak engrish?

at least when the leader is collecting, they can link the scroll and say roll.. most understand that

You obviously weren't around when the first raid loot system was in place.

Just in case it was never described to you I'll do so.

All raids were guaranteed two (2) named raid items on completion.

At completion the group leader was awarded two (2) tokens. These tokens were required to pull an item out of a second chest that appeared. This is where a group of raid items were located, usually 10 or 12. The group leader would assign the tokens, and the people who got the tokens took the item of their choice.

NOTE: This is where the problem starts...

Originally, the tokens were intended to reward productive party members. However, many deviant practices soon emerged:

Some guilds determined that all raid tokens went to the guild leader if he was in the raid. If not, then to the guildie who acted as group leader. Once the leader had all the "Uber" items he wanted he would pass the tokens to the next guy in line.

Some guilds had rules that all tokens stayed in the guild. Some groups advertised this in the LFM... others did not. If you ended up in the latter you got screwed.

Pugs were usually only good for the XP.

After numerous complaints, the system was changed to what we have today, where raid loot could drop for anyone, but there was no guarantee any would be awarded. On the other hand, everyone could see a raid item pop. This was before you could reassign bound items to others, so sometimes you got useless items.

[Hambo]

I dearly wish I could get my students to understand that this is not true.

I struggle to convince some of them that my giving them $3 on a die roll of 6 and their giving me $1 on a die roll from 1-5 is a bad bet for them.

"But you're giving me more money than I'm giving you!"

Assuming the mythical "even distribution", with one set of 6 rolls, each a unique result, you come out $2 ahead. I think that's a great illustration of "house percentage", even if a little high in that example.

[PopeJual]

Assuming the mythical "even distribution", with one set of 6 rolls, each a unique result, you come out $2 ahead. I think that's a great illustration of "house percentage", even if a little high in that example.

I actually handed out dice to the class one day and made them play this out as if it were real gambling. One person came out ahead after several rolls and said she wanted to cash out. The entire rest of the class came out slightly behind and decided to quit gambling before they got too deep into debt except for one student who ended up owing me several hundred "dollars" before he gave up because "teacher on a lucky streak." (Note: no cash exchanged hands as a result of that class.)

[MeliCat]

Because you know there are going to be situations like the following:

*newer wizard has received the Scroll of the Marilith Chain*
Barbarian: OMG I NEEDZ THAT SCROLL MORE THAN YOU GIVE ME IT OR YOU ARE BLACKLISTED
Later...
*Barbarian has received the Scroll of the Greenblade*
Wizard: Can I roll on that?
Barbarian: No I have an alt who needs it.

yay... you've expressed what i've been thinking so much more clearly