Half Elf Dillies

[Maldavenous]

Lots of valid build options coming off this. I'm going to be interested in seeing how this changes a lot of builds.

I'm really fond of healing scrolls with little or no failure without needing UMD on Skill strapped builds. The only issue is the 13 WIS or CHA required which won't fit into all builds. Pure Monk, Paladin, fleshy Sorcs and Wizards, a TR Ranger and many others can easily make use of this though.

The only Dilettante that I am not sure about is Monk's +5 WIS to AC. You are required 13 WIS to take it (I'm not sure if you can switch this feat or take it after character creation at any point) which means a +1 tome and a +6 item to be capped out. More than likely you'll have at least a +2 tome or a +3 tome and easily up to +9 in items. Yes, you could plan on not using these items but splashing 1 monk would serve you better for AC. Then again, to keep this balanced the monk splash needs some benefit... so maybe it's fine.

The ranger lores aren't very useful but I think the Bow Strength works very well for Arcane Archers who want to focus more on DEX and their casting stat than Strength. You should be able to start with a 10 STR and still hit the Bow STR cap fairly easily.

and:

"Half-Elf Follower of the Sovereign Host
Cost: 2
ML: 3
Requires: Paladin Dilettante
Grants proficiency with and +1 to-hit with longswords."

Does this count towards getting Whirling Steel Strike? (unlikely it'll matter because you'd need to be a monk with 10 CHA but I just wanted to check, it'd be cheaper and easier to just be human and take the proficiency feat.)

Additional Question:

Do things like this:

"
Half-Elf Armor Mastery I
Cost: 2
ML: 4
Requires: Fighter Dilettante
Increase max dex bonus on armor by 1

Half-Elf Armor Mastery II
Cost: 2
ML: 11
Requires: Fighter Dilettante
Increase max dex bonus on armor by 1"

Stack with stuff like this:

Daggertooth's Belt

I'm going to assume not. Seeing it's unlikely that a fighter taking Helf Fighter can get extra armor out of it.

[Maldavenous]

"Half Elf Strategy (Stunning Blow/Sunder/Trip) I
Cost: 1
ML: 3
Requires: Fighter Dilettante
+1 bonus to DC

Half Elf Strategy (Stunning Blow/Sunder/Trip) II
Cost: 2
ML: 8
Requires: Fighter Dilettante
+1 bonus to DC"

Can we say improved monk stunlocking?

[Roziel_Longblade]

How about tossing some wand enhancement bonuses for Acane Caster Dillies so TR'd former casters can have a wand option other than 3 buffs?

[SneakThief]

Wand/scroll usage and a +1 class enhancement in their primary stat.

So yes ... just the scroll usage. The wand usage comes from the feat itself, and since the +1 counts as class, its pretty safe to assume it wont be all that useful.

How about tossing some wand enhancement bonuses for Acane Caster Dillies so TR'd former casters can have a wand option other than 3 buffs?

Since all the caster enhancements get it scroll usage, it would be nice to add in a small bump (maybe half or less the caster version) to wand/scroll usage.

[Entelech]

I know half-elves breed true in Eberron but geez… apparently there are no Paladin dilettantes amongst the Valenar…

That's not a racial bonus, it's a class-based one. All Pallies, Clerics, and FvS who serve the Silver Flame get longbows, regardless of race. Same with Sovereign Host and Longswords.

Still, if you want scimitars, the Undying Court should be an option. Scimitar is their religious weapon IIRC.

[Hambo]

It is, but say a pure pally or a pure monk with awesome heal scroll options... definitely a perfectly adaptable choice.

Or a TWF Fighter taking the Rogue line... massive DPS potential increase. I don't think these lines are make-or-break, but they do make the Helf valid, and open up build options, with trade offs that aren't total jokes. I like options.

I'm trying a build on the live servers that is the reverse of this... Pure Rogue with Fighter line...

Carnefex makes a heckuva SA weapon at level 4

[Auran82]

Not sure if anyone is confused about this but halfelves get access to up to Human Healing amp II for being part human and if they happen to have the monk dill, they get access to Monk Healing Amp II as well.

[BlackSteel]

Not sure if anyone is confused about this but halfelves get access to up to Human Healing amp II for being part human and if they happen to have the monk dill, they get access to Monk Healing Amp II as well.

which would be fairly awesome on say a paladin

[Dylvish]

It also occurs to me that Helves may now be the only race with the potential to pick up 2 CHA or Wisdom (1 from Human Adapt, 1 from Helf Dilletante line). Granted, it may not do much good for some of the class choices, but its nice to have the option none the less.

[Dylvish]

which would be fairly awesome on say a paladin

^^ This. A buddy of mine is working on his 3rd pally TR atm, and is flat out hyper over plans for Helf with Monk Dille on his next life.

pally past life x3 = 15%
Monk Dille +20 (or is it 10?)
Human II + 20%

... 45 or 55%... and he hasnt even picked a class to TR into yet!

[Auran82]

Once we can swap dillies, I am going to test if it is possible to start with say 11 wis on a paladin, take another one you meet the requirements for, then at 7, use a +2 wis tome and swap in the monk one.

[thegreatneil]

Once we can swap dillies, I am going to test if it is possible to start with say 11 wis on a paladin, take another one you meet the requirements for, then at 7, use a +2 wis tome and swap in the monk one.

Did a test (as i like to do)
started with 12 str (and half elf monk dilli)
took tower shield pro
Vet lvled to 4
did the feat exchange quest
nom nom a +1 str (should apply at lvl 3?)
went to fred
could now replace my lvl one feat with power attack
could also (and did) replace half elf dilli feat with power attack
I'm going to assume this isn't WAI

[Xenus_Paradox]

Did a test (as i like to do)
started with 12 str (and half elf monk dilli)
took tower shield pro
Vet lvled to 4
did the feat exchange quest
nom nom a +1 str (should apply at lvl 3?)
went to fred
could now replace my lvl one feat with power attack
could also (and did) replace half elf dilli feat with power attack
I'm going to assume this isn't WAI

Considering that this would make Helves strictly better than Humans for anyone with the basic brainpower necessary to do Mark of the Dragon... no, I don't think so either.

[DrNuegebauer]

The monk, sorc and FvS dilles look a bit awful.

I'll assume that one would take the monk dilly if planning on wearing robes, and pimping your AC. Can anyone point out a build that might do such a thing without splashing 2 monk (at least) for the 2 feats and evasion?

Sorc and FvS just look weaksauce compared to cleric/wiz - but of course they DO correlate to a different starting stat - so might have some use.


The rogue one looks far and away the best, but to be honest, I'm struggling to figure out exactly how to make it work. Surely a pure melee class is better off starting as a different race?!? Probably a really nice option for ninja monks - gives them 6d6 sneak attack damage.

All in all, I don't see this raising the stock of half elves beyond a gimmick - better than completely useless I suppose?

[Dylvish]

The monk, sorc and FvS dilles look a bit awful.

I'll assume that one would take the monk dilly if planning on wearing robes, and pimping your AC. Can anyone point out a build that might do such a thing without splashing 2 monk (at least) for the 2 feats and evasion?

Sorc and FvS just look weaksauce compared to cleric/wiz - but of course they DO correlate to a different starting stat - so might have some use.


The rogue one looks far and away the best, but to be honest, I'm struggling to figure out exactly how to make it work. Surely a pure melee class is better off starting as a different race?!? Probably a really nice option for ninja monks - gives them 6d6 sneak attack damage.

All in all, I don't see this raising the stock of half elves beyond a gimmick - better than completely useless I suppose?

--Unless I am mistaken, Monk gives wis bonus to a/c which is nice, but more important (for many who will take it im guessing) is that it can take monk healing amp.

--Sorc and FVS looked to be the same as cleric/wiz except for stat +. Or did I miss something? Having the opening through starting stat though is most likely the reason they will take one over the other agreed.

--Rogue is very nice, and will be helpful to a lot of different builds (bards making up some dps, and FVS that want to do more melee, along with monks all come to mind), and Helf is very similar to Human here, being good all around.

I have to disagree with your view on it being gimmick. I think Helves will open up a lot of builds and options without blowing balance out the window. In particular to people who would like to make classes and stay pure when possible.


Ideas I have thought up and intend on playing around with on char builder (when it updates), maybe trying some in game as well...

**Paladin - Sorc Dill (self stoneskin, haste, etc), Rogue Dill (even more damage for the TWF), Monk (more healing amp, and more AC through wisdom for DoS specs).

**Bard - Fighter for almost any spec (with extra bonus for WC II due to +dex ac on armor), Rogue (for the TWF specs), Sorc or Pally for +1 Cha and bonus saves (mainly for caster or CC spec).

**Rogue - Fighter for proficiencies (and stun DCs if str build), Monk for healing amp and more AC, Pally for more saves if needed).

**Wizard / Sorc - cleric or fvs (self healing wands / scrolls for fleshies without hardcore dumping towards umd??!! yes plz!),

**Monk - Fighter (namely for stun DC bonus), Cleric (wands / scrolls, and +1 wis), Rogue (hard to turn down another 3d6 SA damage), Wizard (if you can get the stat for it) (wands / scrolls),

**Fighter - Cleric or FVS (self healing wands/scrolls), Monk (more healing amp), Rogue (3d6 SA)



There are others, but most of what i listed above isnt a 'gimmick', instead being very useful in most cases. I personally love the direction they took with the Helves. Now if they could just do something about the looks of the male character models......

[EustaceTrevelyan]

Wand/scroll usage and a +1 class enhancement in their primary stat.

wands go by character level, tho.

[Heronous]

wands go by character level, tho.

Yea, the increase in caster levels is mostly for the use of scrolls.

[Missing_Minds]

Pity no feat or enhancement can make em look any better - but I guess that's what helms are for.

I'd say the same for WF, but the thing is WF make the helms look good. Yes, the other way around.

[thegreatneil]

Now only if there were scrolls of rams might, would make things interesting.

Oddly the one that has me excited is barb.
Yes barb.
+1 con (can add to Human Adaptability +1 con) for a bump in hp (20?) Only dwarf and WF could do that.
2 class based Toughness's for 20 more hp
Up to DR -3 (not as impressive,but still kinda nice)

So a monk, rogue, cleric, ranger, sorc, wiz or bard can have more hp than before.

You can have your SR drow, or play your toaster, the new master race is here.

[jjflanigan]

This may have already been stated (and I'm fairly certain the answer is yes), but I didn't see it anywhere:

Does the Monk Dilettante feat for the wisdom bonus to AC require that the Half-Elf not be wearing armor or a shield?