Quick look at Cauldron of Sora Katra (item combiner for Droaam)

[Ciaran]

Khopeshes developed from a particular sort of axe where the head was a curved blade mounted on the side of a pole, with space in between the middle of the axe head and the pole. It became more sword like as area of the pole that was directly behind the blade was removed. As to the khopesh and kukri association, that seems a little far off to me, provided that a khopesh is curved the opposite direction both the falcata and kukri are curved. The kukri does trace its roots to falcatas though. Shrinking a khopesh would get a curved chopping dagger not a kukri (provided that is exactly what a kukri is except the curves are completely different.

/end weapons history ramble

You are correct. I think I assuming the Greek kopis was a descendant of the khopesh when it wasn't.

I knew the falcata and kukri association was correct, thanks for the correction regarding the khopesh.

[SolarDawning]

Stone Prison was very effective in the Desert and Necro 3 areas on elite for an intimitank with the shield. Statues were everywhere

In gianthold and after that it was kinda meh. With the current DC I'd probably use a Maiming/Vampiric stonedust wraps until Refuge/Shavarath on my upcoming TR2 monk, but it'd be put away a lot sooner if Risia comes back. Stone Prison on the new items could be a lot of fun with higher DC.

The effect on the shield is not the Stone Prison effect on the handwraps. The one on the shield seems to proc every (or almost every) time you are hit, while the Stone Prison on the handwraps proc's on average on 5% of your attacks, -then- has a DC 17 save to ignore the effect. So far on live, I've run through all of the Droaam content on hard and elite with them equipped, and only turned one thing to stone. (Probably a lucky occurrence of my rolling a natural 20, and then him rolling a natural 1 on his save)

In other words:
Stone Prison Guard on the Shield of Reflecting: Very good, because of a high proc rate. The low DC doesn't matter, since it's triggered so many times that you'll see enemies rolling 1's.

Stone Prison on the Stonedust Handwraps: You'll almost never see it actually land on anything in level 10+ content, as it has a 5% proc rate and enemies by that point have base fortitude saves high enough that they'll seldom fail.

[Genasi]

Can it only be one weapon? Couldn’t you add specific marks for specific weapons (mark for Blade of Fury, mark for Rocksplitter) to reduce their size?

It might've been a nice thing as a fundamental feature of this system, but at this point we only have the bandwidth to do this change on one weapon. You've mentioned that in that case, Rocksplitter would be the best one to make "shrinkable," but it's seeming like shortsword would have the most universal applicability, so I think I'll go with that. In particular, it would be best to do a weapon type pure rogues are compatible with.

Sorta funny... is it shrinking the whole item, or cutting it in half? If it's cutting it, do you get two little weapons from one big one?

My intention was for it to just shrink the item, but you bring up an interesting point. By the original plan, two-weapon fighters who want to dual-wield the shortswords will have to run these quests twice as much as those who need only one weapon. I suppose I can go ahead and make it such that you can split the Blade of Fury into two Shortswords of Fury, that seems like a fair idea.

[thomprob]

uhhh... wait a sec here. hold the phone


monk TR with feat, for 1 die step, and this robe @ level 12 is rolling with 2d10 fists?
monk1= 1d6 , monk 4=1d8 , monk 8=1d10, monk 12=2d6. 1 die step for PL feat 2d8 , 1 die step for robe 2d10.
forget Jiz's needing to be in earth, Wind stance throwing 2d10s with iTWF @ level 12?

that is a facefull of monk win right there. throw in heavy fort and a good concentration mod to boot. Sure you give up icy or dt but you get the choice AC for damage.

that is one tasty monk robe.
and BtA not BtC to boot like the Mabar stuff.

pure Monk with the past life feat is 2d12, with Jidz in earth stance it's 2d14. Does anyone know if this ability stacks? And if so, what is the next die step?

[Glenalth]

I suppose I can go ahead and make it such that you can split the Blade of Fury into two Shortswords of Fury, that seems like a fair idea.

Sounds like a good plan. Will be nice to not have to farm double and then for extra marks to make a set.

[Ciaran]

It might've been a nice thing as a fundamental feature of this system, but at this point we only have the bandwidth to do this change on one weapon. You've mentioned that in that case, Rocksplitter would be the best one to make "shrinkable," but it's seeming like shortsword would have the most universal applicability, so I think I'll go with that. In particular, it would be best to do a weapon type pure rogues are compatible with.

I'd agree with that. It was just my opinion that of the existing weapons, Rocksplitter in my mind seemed the best to be miniaturized but when thinking about universal use, yeah, I agree that the (short)Sword of Fury is the better choice. Especially if you do this:

My intention was for it to just shrink the item, but you bring up an interesting point. By the original plan, two-weapon fighters who want to dual-wield the shortswords will have to run these quests twice as much as those who need only one weapon. I suppose I can go ahead and make it such that you can split the Blade of Fury into two Shortswords of Fury, that seems like a fair idea.

[Depravity]

Monk with the past life feat is 2d12, with earth stance it's 2d14. Does anyone know if this ability stacks? And if so, what is the next die step?

There was an Eladrin post way back (I think in a Jidz'teka thread) that stated the die step on unarmed would go up by 2 for every time you got a stacking bversion of this effect. So 2d12, 2d14, 2d16, etc, for an average of 2 points a swing increase.

[gurgar78]

Gotta say...

This thread is one of the best examples I've ever seen of someone raising a legitimate concern and a dev immediately responding and getting a fix in.

I'm kind of speechless, actually.

Bravo

[Depravity]

It might've been a nice thing as a fundamental feature of this system, but at this point we only have the bandwidth to do this change on one weapon. You've mentioned that in that case, Rocksplitter would be the best one to make "shrinkable," but it's seeming like shortsword would have the most universal applicability, so I think I'll go with that. In particular, it would be best to do a weapon type pure rogues are compatible with.

Awww...there goes my Pebblecracker.

My intention was for it to just shrink the item, but you bring up an interesting point. By the original plan, two-weapon fighters who want to dual-wield the shortswords will have to run these quests twice as much as those who need only one weapon. I suppose I can go ahead and make it such that you can split the Blade of Fury into two Shortswords of Fury, that seems like a fair idea.

Furthering my quest to alienate everyone on the forums: If you want to dual wield named items, it seems reasonable you should have to put twice the work in to get twice the weaponry out of it. That said, this would be a very nice way to do things for the TWF monkeys out there. "Hey that's a neat idea!" meets "We had to grind greensteel in snow over our heads, uphill, both ways, etc etc etc" and leaves a resounding null in my opinions.

[Odin's_Hugin]

The effect on the shield is not the Stone Prison effect on the handwraps. The one on the shield seems to proc every (or almost every) time you are hit, while the Stone Prison on the handwraps proc's on average on 5% of your attacks, -then- has a DC 17 save to ignore the effect. So far on live, I've run through all of the Droaam content on hard and elite with them equipped, and only turned one thing to stone. (Probably a lucky occurrence of my rolling a natural 20, and then him rolling a natural 1 on his save)

In other words:
Stone Prison Guard on the Shield of Reflecting: Very good, because of a high proc rate. The low DC doesn't matter, since it's triggered so many times that you'll see enemies rolling 1's.

Stone Prison on the Stonedust Handwraps: You'll almost never see it actually land on anything in level 10+ content, as it has a 5% proc rate and enemies by that point have base fortitude saves high enough that they'll seldom fail.

+1 so the devs can notice. I have no problem with DC 17 fort if you make it proc on every hit. That should be fine then, while still not that much useful for mid to high-level areas, which we'll see enemies petrified only if they roll a 1 (5%).

[gurgar78]

If Stone Prison proc'd with a DC17 on every hit it would completely devalue paralyzers. Remember that paralyzers were specifically changed so that auto-crit did not occur on a paralyzed mob. I doubt they'd introduce an effect that is essentially the same thing as what they originally nerfed.

I think what might be more reasonable is to give it a Banish/smite level of DC (Or possibly even higher since it's only on vorpal strike)

Right now the on-every-hit effects (Disrupt/Paralyze) have very low DCs (14, 17), while the only-on-crit effects (Banish/Smite) have a DC of around 25. Make the DC on Stone Prison at least 25, imo.

Edit: Also, it seems like if they're going to increase the DC on the effect, they either need to separate the effects for the shield and leave the DC low or change the it so that Stone Prison Guard only has a 5% chance to proc when being struck.

Increasing the DC and leaving it as on-every-taken-hit for the shield would be a little strong.

[thomprob]

There was an Eladrin post way back (I think in a Jidz'teka thread) that stated the die step on unarmed would go up by 2 for every time you got a stacking bversion of this effect. So 2d12, 2d14, 2d16, etc, for an average of 2 points a swing increase.

Thanks for the reply. Seems like a really neat armor but not quite good enough for me to want to give up red dragonscale. Might be fun to switch out though on fire immune mobs/bosses at endgame.

[The_Cataclysm]

It might've been a nice thing as a fundamental feature of this system, but at this point we only have the bandwidth to do this change on one weapon. You've mentioned that in that case, Rocksplitter would be the best one to make "shrinkable," but it's seeming like shortsword would have the most universal applicability, so I think I'll go with that. In particular, it would be best to do a weapon type pure rogues are compatible with.


My intention was for it to just shrink the item, but you bring up an interesting point. By the original plan, two-weapon fighters who want to dual-wield the shortswords will have to run these quests twice as much as those who need only one weapon. I suppose I can go ahead and make it such that you can split the Blade of Fury into two Shortswords of Fury, that seems like a fair idea.

Shame we can't get more than one, but thanks for fixing the oversight of finesse weapons in this system.

Furthering my quest to alienate everyone on the forums: If you want to dual wield named items, it seems reasonable you should have to put twice the work in to get twice the weaponry out of it. That said, this would be a very nice way to do things for the TWF monkeys out there. "Hey that's a neat idea!" meets "We had to grind greensteel in snow over our heads, uphill, both ways, etc etc etc" and leaves a resounding null in my opinions.

While a fair point, it should be pointed out that finesse users will already have to grind out an extra mark to upgrade to a shortsword.

[voodoogroves]

It might've been a nice thing as a fundamental feature of this system, but at this point we only have the bandwidth to do this change on one weapon. You've mentioned that in that case, Rocksplitter would be the best one to make "shrinkable," but it's seeming like shortsword would have the most universal applicability, so I think I'll go with that. In particular, it would be best to do a weapon type pure rogues are compatible with.


My intention was for it to just shrink the item, but you bring up an interesting point. By the original plan, two-weapon fighters who want to dual-wield the shortswords will have to run these quests twice as much as those who need only one weapon. I suppose I can go ahead and make it such that you can split the Blade of Fury into two Shortswords of Fury, that seems like a fair idea.

(1) Awesome

(2) Boosting shortsword not only has more universal applicability, but that's also a weapon that could use some love.

[Angelus_dead]

While a fair point, it should be pointed out that finesse users will already have to grind out an extra mark to upgrade to a shortsword.

That might be the result if they just add "Mark of Shrinky" to the list of possible Mark drops in the simplest way. But they could also choose to avoid that, and add it to the chests as a separate loot chance that doesn't take the place of other items.

While a fair point, it should be pointed out that finesse users will already have to grind out an extra mark to upgrade to a shortsword.

More than that. A TWF character will not only need twice the marks to upgrade both swords, but also twice as many Malleable items to merge into them.

(Often DDO has apparently gone by the principle that the doubled effort obtaining items is a tradeoff for the advantage of higher attack rate)

[Angelus_dead]

If Stone Prison proc'd with a DC17 on every hit it would completely devalue paralyzers.

Yes, it would be way overpowered to do that.

I think what might be more reasonable is to give it a Banish/smite level of DC (Or possibly even higher since it's only on vorpal strike)

They probably wouldn't want to do that, since Stone Prison is a bonus effect on a weapon that is already pretty good. A Banishing weapon at this level would be +1 or +2, and ineffective for purposes aside from that Banish.

Increasing the DC and leaving it as on-every-taken-hit for the shield would be a little strong.

Yes, reducing the shield's proc rate but increasing the Fort DC would be a good idea anyway. Presently the Fort DC becomes meaningless after a few levels: it's like your shield has a 5% per-attack chance of petrifying the monster, which is too strong (especially if the character has a reason to use a shield anyhow)

[gurgar78]

They probably wouldn't want to do that, since Stone Prison is a bonus effect on a weapon that is already pretty good. A Banishing weapon at this level would be +1 or +2, and ineffective for purposes aside from that Banish.

You might be right. Also, aside from what you pointed out here, Stone Prison works on far more mobs than either banish or smite.

So bumping the DC a little might be helpful, but I guess they really shouldn't raise it too much.

On the flip-side, it requires a vorpal strike whereas banish and smite only require a crit.

[Genasi]

That might be the result if they just add "Mark of Shrinky" to the list of possible Mark drops in the simplest way.

Actually, the way I wanted to approach it was by using the existing marks, eliminating the need to add any extra marks to the system that would only have one use. Normally you only need one type of mark to combine the update 7/8 items, so by requiring combinations of two marks we can have recipes that are differentiated from the normal Blade of Fury fusion recipes, but don't require a new mark. When you add the Blade of Fury to the eldritch device, you'll see these recipes show up along with the other expected ones, making it clear that you can also turn this greatsword into two shortswords as you fuse it with the update 8 item, if you so choose.

(Often DDO has apparently gone by the principle that the doubled effort obtaining items is a tradeoff for the advantage of higher attack rate)

I suppose it has, in the past. But that would only follow if two-weapon fighting were twice as powerful as two-handed fighting, yes? And I'd like to think we're doing what we can to make all weapon styles viable. Certainly it's the goal.

[The_Cataclysm]

I suppose it has, in the past. But that would only follow if two-weapon fighting were twice as powerful as two-handed fighting, yes? And I'd like to think we're doing what we can to make all weapon styles viable. Certainly it's the goal.

Sweet, so you should add in some nice shields for sword and board finesse rogues. How about a nice epic buckler with double strike and superior stability? What, too specific?

[Xenus_Paradox]

Actually, the way I wanted to approach it was by using the existing marks, eliminating the need to add any extra marks to the system that would only have one use. Normally you only need one type of mark to combine the update 7/8 items, so by requiring combinations of two marks we can have recipes that are differentiated from the normal Blade of Fury fusion recipes, but don't require a new mark. When you add the Blade of Fury to the eldritch device, you'll see these recipes show up along with the other expected ones, making it clear that you can also turn this greatsword into two shortswords as you fuse it with the update 8 item, if you so choose.



I suppose it has, in the past. But that would only follow if two-weapon fighting were twice as powerful as two-handed fighting, yes? And I'd like to think we're doing what we can to make all weapon styles viable. Certainly it's the goal.

So you're going to reduce high level monsters' to-hit so you can go S&B without needing to hit a 90 AC?