Quick look at Cauldron of Sora Katra (item combiner for Droaam)

[SisAmethyst]

Great feedback, everyone. I've gone through the thread and while I don't have time to comment on everything specifically, it seems many of you are finding ways to make use of this system and have fun with it, which is great. There's also some very valid and useful criticisms here, several of which stand out to me: for one, I acknowledge that I overlooked one-handed finessable weapons with this system. It's true that no loot system can accommodate every single need, but with this one I had wanted to cover as many bases as possible and that's one I missed.

It may not be too late to address that, though - I have heard suggestions to make the Rocksplitter a light pick instead of a heavy one, but that may have an unfortunate effect on those who have farmed it expecting it to remain heavy. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on that possibility though. Adding a whole new weapon (and its appropriate upgraded versions) to the system is probably not possible at this stage. However, it should be possible for me to make recipes that would actually reduce the size of an existing weapon to something finessable. For instance, add an extra mark to any recipe that results in an upgraded Blade of Fury and it will become a mini-Blade-of-Fury, which is in fact a shortsword but is otherwise identical. It needn't be the Blade of Fury though. Thoughts on what the ideal weapon to do this with would be?

Thanks for the feedback!

Well wouldn't a smaller version of a Falchion not be a Scimitar or if it need to be finessable then I guess a Rapier would more fit the effects? So it will become the 'Swift of Fury' ?

I wouldn't mind if 'Rocksplitter' would be changed to a 'Light Pick' as with all the effects on the weapon probably the x4 is anyway more important then dice change from 1d6 to 1d4. A 'Heavy pick' in the hands of a Kobold creating the Tunnel below the Plaza would be anyway considered smaller in the hands of a Human or Orc That would have the other nice effect that I guess we not have any other named 'Light Pick' yet at all.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Slap the Finesse enhancement on Rocksplitter.

Done.

Better yet, add a weapon to the new chain that has Finesse on it and has Malleable, so you can combine it with the Fusible weapons and give THEM Finesse.

[slimkj]

Healing amplification is only one of the factors that would make vampiric more valuable. If you have high AC or fast attacks then those also increase the effective power. (Notice that Monks are good in all three of those categories, making them the best beneficiaries of vampiric).

That's why I'm rubbing my hands in anticipation.

[slimkj]

It seems casters were left out

I'm pretty set on the prospect of farming two Rocksplitters with Maiming on all my Mass Hold/FtS users

[Ciaran]

Slap the Finesse enhancement on Rocksplitter.

Done.

Better yet, add a weapon to the new chain that has Finesse on it and has Malleable, so you can combine it with the Fusible weapons and give THEM Finesse.

Not a bad idea, but Genasi already said that it's unlikely that adding a weapon to the chain is unlikely.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Not a bad idea, but Genasi already said that it's unlikely that adding a weapon to the chain is unlikely.

Grr.

What about adding another Mark, which, if added to any existing recipe, shrinks the item? Make it rarer than the other marks so finesse users will have to buy more mana pots and whatnot from the cash store, of course.

[Ciaran]

Grr.

What about adding another Mark, which, if added to any existing recipe, shrinks the item? Make it rarer than the other marks so finesse users will have to buy more mana pots and whatnot from the cash store, of course.

Pretty funny you mention that -

It may not be too late to address that, though - I have heard suggestions to make the Rocksplitter a light pick instead of a heavy one, but that may have an unfortunate effect on those who have farmed it expecting it to remain heavy. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on that possibility though. Adding a whole new weapon (and its appropriate upgraded versions) to the system is probably not possible at this stage. However, it should be possible for me to make recipes that would actually reduce the size of an existing weapon to something finessable. For instance, add an extra mark to any recipe that results in an upgraded Blade of Fury and it will become a mini-Blade-of-Fury, which is in fact a shortsword but is otherwise identical. It needn't be the Blade of Fury though. Thoughts on what the ideal weapon to do this with would be?

[Angelus_dead]

It may not be too late to address that, though - I have heard suggestions to make the Rocksplitter a light pick instead of a heavy one, but that may have an unfortunate effect on those who have farmed it expecting it to remain heavy.

In general a light pick is a more attractive item than a heavy pick. The heavy pick's benefit of higher base damage is small, while the important part (20/x4 crits) remains the same. Finesse compatibility makes light picks more valuable, because the characters with Improved Crit Piercing tend to be finesse builds (because rapiers are their main choice).

Maybe you could change it to light weapon without removing the advantage of the base damage die, such as overriding the damage (as seen on many items like Dueling Schlager). Or, in Ghosts of Perdition is Fell Rapier of Ice, a rapier with the special feature of being a light weapon. Maybe that effect could be copied onto Rocksplitter. (Or maybe it wouldn't be enough, since rapiers were already finesse compatible)

recipes that would actually reduce the size of an existing weapon to something finessable. For instance, add an extra mark to any recipe that results in an upgraded Blade of Fury and it will become a mini-Blade-of-Fury, which is in fact a shortsword but is otherwise identical. It needn't be the Blade of Fury though. Thoughts on what the ideal weapon to do this with would be?

Sorta funny... is it shrinking the whole item, or cutting it in half? If it's cutting it, do you get two little weapons from one big one?

Let's see, the possibilities:
Greatsword -> shortsword
Falchion -> kukri
Greataxe -> handaxe
Staff -> light mace
Longbow -> shortbow
Heavy Pick -> light pick
Khopesh -> ??? none exists

Obviously shortbow is right out. A light mace from Staff of Shadow would be overpowered for an undesired combat style: holding two of them would be much better than Dreamspitter for killing helpless monsters (while being underpowered at fighting things that are moving). Of the others, a Shortsword from Sword of Fury would be the most widely-usable choice due to weapon type, because many finesse characters are pure Rogues who lack proficiency in axe, pick, and kukri.

Aside from the weapon types and looking at the magic effects, which would be most attractive? Tough to say. Axe is the best for killing Humanoids (whatever those are), falchion is good for defensive use (it has Bodyfeeder and you can add vampire, and a 1h version tends to allow better AC). The sword's +5 wounding and occasional disease damage is alright, although the low-health rage is a true drawback (finesse characters are less likely to have a lot of extra hp buffer, but maybe will have aggro less)

If it were possible to equip two Sword of Fury at once there'd be the potential for weirdness of double rage, but I assume it wouldn't stack and be the same as only one.

The final possibility is to allow Hooked Blade to turn into a special mini-khopesh that's finesseable but still needs an exotice proficiency feat. Some players would be attracted, but it's pretty oddball and scales differently from other finesse weapons (critical power), so I recommend against it.

I've heard various degrees of feedback about it but for the most part it seems it's not petrifying enemies in this level range half the time that it goes off (which is the intention).

DC 17 eh. The lowest Fortitude I've noticed among level-appropriate melee enemies are Kobolds with 10, so 35% effectiveness, although naturally caster enemies will be worse.

[Xenus_Paradox]

In general a light pick is a more attractive item than a heavy pick. The heavy pick's benefit of higher base damage is small, while the important part (20/x4 crits) remains the same. Finesse compatibility makes light picks more valuable, because the characters with Improved Crit Piercing tend to be finesse builds (because rapiers are their main choice).

Maybe you could change it to light weapon without removing the advantage of the base damage die, such as overriding the damage (as seen on many items like Dueling Schlager). Or, in Ghosts of Perdition is Fell Rapier of Ice, a rapier with the special feature of being a light weapon. Maybe that effect could be copied onto Rocksplitter. (Or maybe it wouldn't be enough, since rapiers were already finesse compatible)



Sorta funny... is it shrinking the whole item, or cutting it in half? If it's cutting it, do you get two little weapons from one big one?

Let's see, the possibilities:
Greatsword -> shortsword
Falchion -> kukri
Greataxe -> handaxe
Staff -> light mace
Longbow -> shortbow
Heavy Pick -> light pick
Khopesh -> ??? none exists

Obviously shortbow is right out. A light mace from Staff of Shadow would be overpowered for an undesired combat style: holding two of them would be much better than Dreamspitter for killing helpless monsters (while being underpowered at fighting things that are moving). Of the others, a Shortsword from Sword of Fury would be the most widely-usable choice due to weapon type, because many finesse characters are pure Rogues who lack proficiency in axe, pick, and kukri.

Aside from the weapon types and looking at the magic effects, which would be most attractive? Tough to say. Axe is the best for killing Humanoids (whatever those are), falchion is good for defensive use (it has Bodyfeeder and you can add vampire, and a 1h version tends to allow better AC). The sword's +5 wounding and occasional disease damage is alright, although the low-health rage is a true drawback (finesse characters are less likely to have a lot of extra hp buffer, but maybe will have aggro less)

If it were possible to equip two Sword of Fury at once there'd be the potential for weirdness of double rage, but I assume it wouldn't stack and be the same as only one.

The final possibility is to allow Hooked Blade to turn into a special mini-khopesh that's finesseable but still needs an exotice proficiency feat. Some players would be attracted, but it's pretty oddball and scales differently from other finesse weapons (critical power), so I recommend against it.


DC 17 eh. The lowest Fortitude I've noticed among level-appropriate melee enemies are Kobolds with 10, so 35% effectiveness, although naturally caster enemies will be worse.

Just spitballing this... a mini-khopesh would maybe be a sickle.

Khopesh (ḫpš; also vocalized khepesh) is the Egyptian name of the Canaanite "sickle-sword", in Assyrian known as sappara.

Though it might be somewhat unbalanced having Limb Chopper, Maiming, and any one of Demon Fever, Bodyfeeder, Destruction, or Petrifying on a simple weapon.

[Dilbon]

Just spitballing this... a mini-khopesh would maybe be a sickle.

Scimitar, if khopesh were 18-20 x2 like it should.

Edit: Or nevermind, scimitar isn't very miniature. Kukri then.

[Ciaran]

Just spitballing this... a mini-khopesh would maybe be a sickle.

Nah, a sickle is a tool turned weapon whereas a khopesh is just a weapon. I'd maintain that shrinking a khopesh would turn it into a kukri (since the khopesh is thought to be a forerunner to the falcata and a kukri resembles visually and in function a miniature falcata).

[Angelus_dead]

Slap the Finesse enhancement on Rocksplitter.

Done.

The Finesse enhancement has never really been useful in DDO. So now I've got a Heavy Pick which grants Weapon Finesse to the wielder... that's unlikely to have a detectable effect.

[Xenus_Paradox]

The Finesse enhancement has never really been useful in DDO. So now I've got a Heavy Pick which grants Weapon Finesse to the wielder... that's unlikely to have a detectable effect.

If I'm not mistaken, the Finesse enhancement automatically applies Dex to attacks with the weapon that bears it, even if it's not normally finessable.

I could be wrong.

[Angelus_dead]

Though it might be somewhat unbalanced having Limb Chopper, Maiming, and any one of Demon Fever, Bodyfeeder, Destruction, or Petrifying on a simple weapon.

Being on a simple weapon would tend to make those effects less valuable, not more (especially because some of them only trigger on crits, and sickles rarely get crits)

[kruggar]

I don't think there is a named light pick yet, so Rocksplitter being turned into one would be nice (of course I'm biased towards finesse weapons, so I don't know what a pick user would say).

As for turning a weapon into a mini version, Blade of Fury and Hooked Blade would probably be highest on my list, followed by Rocksplitter. The staff might be interesting as a light mace. I kind of like the whole idea of reducing size to turn it into a finesse weapon. It is a great solution.

adding a potion of reduction to the recipe seems a very nice way to adress the finessable situation of weapons..

u have a normal recipe that gives the normal combined weapon and a secondary recipe that gives the light version of it.. good solution, simple and effective.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Being on a simple weapon would tend to make those effects less valuable, not more (especially because some of them only trigger on crits, and sickles rarely get crits)

I was thinking more that anybody would be able to use it with no penalties, but you have a point about the crit profile.

However, Limb Chopper and Destruction don't rely on crit profile (Limb Chopper being a vorpal ability and Destruction going off on every hit).

Would it be overpowered if wizards could dual-wield mini-Hooked Blades? Probably not.

[Crazyfruit]

it seems like Stone Prison could at least use a boost to its DC. I've heard various degrees of feedback about it but for the most part it seems it's not petrifying enemies in this level range half the time that it goes off (which is the intention).

Stone Prison was very effective in the Desert and Necro 3 areas on elite for an intimitank with the shield. Statues were everywhere

In gianthold and after that it was kinda meh. With the current DC I'd probably use a Maiming/Vampiric stonedust wraps until Refuge/Shavarath on my upcoming TR2 monk, but it'd be put away a lot sooner if Risia comes back. Stone Prison on the new items could be a lot of fun with higher DC.

Bigger ??? for monks in Update 8 IMO: No docent form of the robes unless I missed a post somewhere, and the wrap earth stance thing rewards people who didn't invest AP into it more than people who did.

[Diyon]

Nah, a sickle is a tool turned weapon whereas a khopesh is just a weapon. I'd maintain that shrinking a khopesh would turn it into a kukri (since the khopesh is thought to be a forerunner to the falcata and a kukri resembles visually and in function a miniature falcata).

Khopeshes developed from a particular sort of axe where the head was a curved blade mounted on the side of a pole, with space in between the middle of the axe head and the pole. It became more sword like as area of the pole that was directly behind the blade was removed. As to the khopesh and kukri association, that seems a little far off to me, provided that a khopesh is curved the opposite direction both the falcata and kukri are curved. The kukri does trace its roots to falcatas though. Shrinking a khopesh would get a curved chopping dagger not a kukri (provided that is exactly what a kukri is except the curves are completely different.

/end weapons history ramble

[patang01]

A Mark of 'shrinking' would probably be the best compromise. That way people who want a 2 handed sword/axe can keep it that way and if someone want a 1 handed/finesse weapon they get their choice.

I personally wouldn't mind the greatsword for my horc and a shortsword for my ranger. Or even a pick of any size against epic critters.

And it would be awesome if this could eventually be upgraded all the way to epic with a greater bane mark that would change the ML to something like 18-20 and add that little extra kick to it as good solid alternative to green steel.

[Xenus_Paradox]

A Mark of 'shrinking' would probably be the best compromise. That way people who want a 2 handed sword/axe can keep it that way and if someone want a 1 handed/finesse weapon they get their choice.

I personally wouldn't mind the greatsword for my horc and a shortsword for my ranger. Or even a pick of any size against epic critters.

And it would be awesome if this could eventually be upgraded all the way to epic with a greater bane mark that would change the ML to something like 18-20 and add that little extra kick to it as good solid alternative to green steel.

Anything that makes greensteel less mandatory gets a thumbs-up from me.