Quick look at Cauldron of Sora Katra (item combiner for Droaam)

[fuzzy1guy]

So uh.... why do we have yet another 'crafting' UI that cuts off most of the text telling you what you're making..

Just like the mabar mess.


silly question... i know the answer i guess.

[maddmatt70]

Even longer for a repeater or Maul, War Hammer, Morningstar, etc.

HellFire Xbow Epic, Hammer of Life Epic, etc.. So not longer for many of the items you listed. Its a racial dwarf weapon that dwarves actually use or at least some few dwarves still do.

[Mister_Peace]

This.
Also, items upgradeable to multiple levels (Mabar event) is a very, very, VERY good idea. Please add some more like that.

So uh.... why do we have yet another 'crafting' UI that cuts off most of the text telling you what you're making..
Just like the mabar mess.
silly question... i know the answer i guess.

The interesting thing about Mabar crafting as opposed to all other crafting in the game so far is the possibility of putting in a certain set of ingredients, and having a choice of what comes out. Up until now, every single craft recipe produces only one item.
This would also let the devs add more recipes later, without needing to add more ingredients.

[butlerfamilywa]

So uh.... why do we have yet another 'crafting' UI that cuts off most of the text telling you what you're making..

Just like the mabar mess.


silly question... i know the answer i guess.

Mouse over the descriptions, and you'll see the entire thing pop up in a tooltip window.

Stupid questions get stupid answers

[Angelus_dead]

One reason I think there are so many comments about these being good items is that there are so many weapons.

What comments about good weapons? I don't see many...

It's disappointing that there are four THF weapons, but zero finesse. (Handwraps don't count unless non-monks are allowed to get regular attack rate with them).

Also disappointing that the longbow will have no use for ranged specialized characters, because the damage is low. If you already had the bow strength then it's just a +5 crippling.

Also the staff of shadow is only good for frozen mobs, and the rageful doesn't stack with the rage you already have..

On the other hand, the bracers and armor look pretty great.

[The_Cataclysm]

It's disappointing that there are four THF weapons, but zero finesse. (Handwraps don't count unless non-monks are allowed to get regular attack rate with them).

THFs really are the favored sons with this update.

[kernal42]

THFs really are the favored sons with this update.

Considering that TWF has long been the preferred melee technique of players in DDO, it's entirely reasonable for THF to get more than its fair share of love.

By the same logic, Finesse-styles, as A_D suggests, are also in need of new toys. The devs may be wary of that for now; it's somewhat harder to balance finesse due to the way dex boosts both offense and defense, and from what I can tell Genasi is still getting his bearings in terms of what's good and what's not.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Angelus_dead]

Considering that TWF has long been the preferred melee technique of players in DDO, it's entirely reasonable for THF to get more than its fair share of love.

No, that conclusion doesn't follow.

The devs may be wary of that for now; it's somewhat harder to balance finesse due to the way dex boosts both offense and defense

Dexterity does not boost offense very much. Yes it gives you attack rolls, but if a character was already hitting 95% then that's no effect. Strength boosts weapon damage and stun DC; things that you are much less likely to be capped at.

(Technically strength boosts defense against knockdown, which is pretty dangerous on rare occasions, although dex does that too)

[kernal42]

No, that conclusion doesn't follow.

Indeed; I also made the unstated assumption that the devs deliberately try to encourage diversity in gameplay.

Dexterity does not boost offense very much. Yes it gives you attack rolls, but if a character was already hitting 95% then that's no effect. Strength boosts weapon damage and stun DC; things that you are much less likely to be capped at.

(Technically strength boosts defense against knockdown, which is pretty dangerous on rare occasions, although dex does that too)

For most finesse builds that are not hitting 95% of the time, a boost to dex provides a greater increase to dps than a boost to strength would. Considering the high ACs present in epic quests, and the relative ease with which strength can be boosted compared to dexterity, I imagine that most finesse builds would experience an increase in dps with a higher dexterity.

Unfortunately, I also imagine that in those same scenarios, the added AC is hardly relevant.

Cheers,
Kernal

[honkuimushi]

What comments about good weapons? I don't see many...

It's disappointing that there are four THF weapons, but zero finesse. (Handwraps don't count unless non-monks are allowed to get regular attack rate with them).

Also disappointing that the longbow will have no use for ranged specialized characters, because the damage is low. If you already had the bow strength then it's just a +5 crippling.

Also the staff of shadow is only good for frozen mobs, and the rageful doesn't stack with the rage you already have..

On the other hand, the bracers and armor look pretty great.

Well, this for one.

it seems alot of these items are actually very good, and have some interesting unique effects. the only downside is that they're coming from a lvl 12 quest chain. And it'll be hard to justify some of the items over epic gear (which makes sense). altho some of the items are still very situationally useful.

I can see my barb picking up the bow str and bracers just for shooting at the queen. saves me crafting a min 2 returner. Additionally the heavy pick upgraded with maiming is a nice substitute for a GS offhand in epic. Slightly less base damage and 1d6 instead of 2d6 (holy tier 1) but you get two bursts instead of a burst/blast.

alot of these are very competive with GS items, weapons or accessories (which also have the same ML roundabout) which is awesome for newer players/characters.

If you include the weapons from the previous pack as well(since they can now be upgraded) you have a heavy pick, Longbow, a khopesh, and handwraps, none of which have many good named options in this level range. There have been some named quarterstaffs added recently, but I've considered the non-epic versions somewhat lacking and staff based Acrobats seem to be getting more popular recently.

Yes, some dwarven axes would be nice and some finesse weapons as well. But honestly, right now it's generally a mistake to make a finesse character. Just making these items +5 with 2 or 3 useful mods puts them ahead of most recent items in my book. A lot of them aren't a full time weapon or aimed towards people specialized in the weapon either. The bow is a good choice for backup ranged weapon. The staff isn't a full time weapon, but could be good in a situation with a lot of holds or you need to heal up a bit or the healing is running low.

Yes, the bracers really fill a gap. The armor is solid, but unfortunately, it's right about the time when armor stops mattering for most characters and there are better mods on random loot or other named items if you don't care about the +.

[Angelus_dead]

Well, this for one.

Oh, well that evaluation does represent how a lot of players will (initially) look at the Gnollish War-bow, but it doesn't really hold together. Someone may look at it and think "Bow Strength! Now I can shoot Queen Laliat". But that forgets two to four things:
1. If your strength is really high, run up to Queen Laliat with an axe.
2. The bow doesn't beat DR; and she has a lot of DR. Getting a +5 Holy Bow to beat DR is easy.
3. A +5 bow doesn't hit as much as +5 Righteous would, and Laliat has a lot of AC (especially compared to the dexterity of a typical high-strength character)
4. You could easily get a +5 Returning Throwing Axe and also add your strength to damage, without worrying about refilling arrows. (And for Dwarves it even hits more)

Aside from that, there's the problem that a special bow which non-archer characters find cool to try isn't attractive to Arcane Archer specialist characters. It becomes particularly unlikely that someone will feel like going through the farming of ingredients to upgrade it.

But honestly, right now it's generally a mistake to make a finesse character.

That's unfortunately true, although not so much if you're looking more down at this midlevel range (and non-TR), where a finesse guy's AC advantage can be more meaningful.

The staff isn't a full time weapon, but could be good in a situation with a lot of holds or you need to heal up a bit or the healing is running low.

It'd be nice if the staff was something a staff-specialized character would actually fight monsters with, instead of something generic characters will use to finish off monsters that were already defeated.

[Angelus_dead]

Indeed; I also made the unstated assumption that the devs deliberately try to encourage diversity in gameplay.

An attempt to promote diverse gameplay styles would lead to the opposite result: instead of omitting finesse weapons, they would try to add some in.

Considering the high ACs present in epic quests

That's pretty far from the level range in question.

[Glenalth]

Aside from that, there's the problem that a special bow which non-archer characters find cool to try isn't attractive to Arcane Archer specialist characters. It becomes particularly unlikely that someone will feel like going through the farming of ingredients to upgrade it.

The bow makes me sad. It is totally uninteresting on it's own and even by adding effects from a fusible item it is still uninteresting.

It needs some help if anyone is ever to use it. Modifying the range/multiplier, such as 18-20/x2, would let the crippling hit more often while giving it a more interesting damage profile for archers. Another option is to expand upon the Bow Strength it grants and allow it to stack with the actual feat, even if just partially for 1.5x strength damage like THF.

It'd be nice if the staff was something a staff-specialized character would actually fight monsters with, instead of something generic characters will use to finish off monsters that were already defeated.

While this is a limited use item, it is a decent one. The adamantine will make it nice for epics. Definitely want one for my Acrobat to complement its glass cousin, probably with Destruction or Body Feeder added.

edit: though looking at the staff image, the adamantine is bugged, it has the material listed but not as a damage type or the proper hardness to go with it.

[fuzzy1guy]

No... this is what i'm talking about... visible right there in the screenshot... the part of the image showing "a +5 falchion with the same properties as t......."

Who in the world designed that UI? And why didnt they either leave the text out. put in a short verison. or expand the text part of the window so that it's complete.

The crafting part is irrevelant. Mousover is irrevelant.. that is some terrible design visible there.

OR does it look good with whatever settings the dev machine has set.. settings totally diffrent from the ddo defaults.

Since it doesnt matter it can look like crud?

[Angelus_dead]

It needs some help if anyone is ever to use it. Modifying the range/multiplier, such as 18-20/x2, would let the crippling hit more often while giving it a more interesting damage profile for archers. Another option is to expand upon the Bow Strength it grants and allow it to stack with the actual feat, even if just partially for 1.5x strength damage like THF.

Those changes would be leading towards high-power scaling, which the devs might prefer to avoid.

A more conservative way to boost the power would be to declare that the Gnollish War-bow was built with some of the same magic as he Ogrish War-axe, so they both get Humanoid Bane on them. (See, the name implies there could be a resembelance...) That would give the bow some situational value against orc, goblin, dwarf, elf, etc.

While this is a limited use item, it is a decent one. The adamantine will make it nice for epics. Definitely want one for my Acrobat to complement its glass cousin, probably with Destruction or Body Feeder added.

I view that as the wrong kind of attractiveness for these items. Preferable would be if they're valuable at around the level you can obtain them, not for a special purpose in weird epic situations.

[Odin's_Hugin]

Im still waiting for return about if the Stonedust Wraps upgraded become Stunning+10 or not.

[PopeJual]

the first melee or caster who took those bracers from an AA needs to be brought out into the woods and shot

With these bracers, melee folks will suddenly be useful in ADQ instead of just decorations.

Bow Strength + Silver Bow (or any Holy/Good bow) and Cold Iron arrows = almost as good as a Tempest ranger once Lailat's AC is dropped a bit.

Edit: nevermind. Somehow thought that the Bracers granted Bow Strength and not the Bow itself. Bow looks a lot more attractive than most bows for Epic if it has a Red slot, though. I'd be interested in seeing an analysis of granting Bow Strength vs. LitII. I'm thinking that Bow Strength would beat LitII for most melee types.

[PopeJual]

Oh, well that evaluation does represent how a lot of players will (initially) look at the Gnollish War-bow, but it doesn't really hold together. Someone may look at it and think "Bow Strength! Now I can shoot Queen Laliat". But that forgets two to four things:
1. If your strength is really high, run up to Queen Laliat with an axe.

When I see people do that even on Elite, I see them get knocked down and killed.

Is there a trick to melee against the Demon Queen that avoids knockdown? Even if you're not dead, you don't contribute any DPS while you're laying on the ground.

[Angelus_dead]

When I see people do that even on Elite, I see them get knocked down and killed.

It seems the knockdown DC is pretty much the same on different difficulties. That means that it gets comparatively easier to remain standing on higher difficulty, because your character will be higher level and have more strength.

Is there a trick to melee against the Demon Queen that avoids knockdown?

There have been various tricks. I don't feel like repeating them in case there's some rules or stuff...

Workable methods that aren't tricks:
* Be a Rogue Acrobat II
* Use Death Frenzy, Power Rage, Might, Mighty Rage, Rage, Madstone Rage, Yugoloth Strength, Lesser Strength Shrine, Exceptional Strength, Titan Cookie, and Hezrou Cookie
* Use Fighter Strength, Power Surge, Rage, Madstone Rage, Yugoloth Strength, Lesser Strength Shrine, Exceptional Strength, Titan Cookie, and Hezrou Cookie

Bow looks a lot more attractive than most bows for Epic if it has a Red slot, though.

This quest series does not have epic versions. The devs have hinted that there will be no new epic quests until they step back and reconsider epic design.

[kernal42]

An attempt to promote diverse gameplay styles would lead to the opposite result: instead of omitting finesse weapons, they would try to add some in.

...yes, I never said they did get any; I didn't think there was any question on that matter. I was simply agreeing that it would be reasonable to hope for and expect some new finesse weapons.

Cheers,
Kernal