Quick look at Cauldron of Sora Katra (item combiner for Droaam)

[maddmatt70]

Oh, well that evaluation does represent how a lot of players will (initially) look at the Gnollish War-bow, but it doesn't really hold together. Someone may look at it and think "Bow Strength! Now I can shoot Queen Laliat". But that forgets two to four things:
1. If your strength is really high, run up to Queen Laliat with an axe.
2. The bow doesn't beat DR; and she has a lot of DR. Getting a +5 Holy Bow to beat DR is easy.
3. A +5 bow doesn't hit as much as +5 Righteous would, and Laliat has a lot of AC (especially compared to the dexterity of a typical high-strength character)
4. You could easily get a +5 Returning Throwing Axe and also add your strength to damage, without worrying about refilling arrows. (And for Dwarves it even hits more)

Aside from that, there's the problem that a special bow which non-archer characters find cool to try isn't attractive to Arcane Archer specialist characters. It becomes particularly unlikely that someone will feel like going through the farming of ingredients to upgrade it.

Simple question, but what if the queen did not have dr? Which is kind of the point of this level 13 bow. If there is a situation where a non archer wants to pull out a bow. Your other point begs the question of what is the throwing speed vs. shooting speed? Why are not more archers using throwers especially before arcane archers came into being. Considering that the only other ranged weapon for non archer specialist characters is the storm/epic storm which was released quite some time ago I think this is appropriate especially since this is again a level 13 quest. I personally think the bracer is overpowered for a level 13 quest - I should not want to use a level 13 loot on my level 20 archer with epic loot that is actually kind of sorry and poor design in my opinion.

[Kirlian]

No... this is what i'm talking about... visible right there in the screenshot... the part of the image showing "a +5 falchion with the same properties as t......."

Who in the world designed that UI? And why didnt they either leave the text out. put in a short verison. or expand the text part of the window so that it's complete.

The crafting part is irrevelant. Mousover is irrevelant.. that is some terrible design visible there.

OR does it look good with whatever settings the dev machine has set.. settings totally diffrent from the ddo defaults.

Since it doesnt matter it can look like crud?

I fail to share your frustration.
All you need to do, and what you say is irrelevant, is put mouse cursor on the description to see what you may get by combining various items. That is improvement to compare with 'guess what you may get' we have in shroud, ToD.

[Angelus_dead]

Simple question, but what if the queen did not have dr? Which is kind of the point of this level 13 bow. If there is a situation where a non archer wants to pull out a bow.

The comment to which I was responding used Queen Laliat as the example. Realistically, it's hard to think of any other situation where an ordinary character would care enough about ranged damage to go to the bother of carrying a special bow for it; especially if the bow isn't really good at damage. (+5 Holy Frost Pure Good is 4d6 or about worth 38 str, which is high for that level).

Why are not more archers using throwers especially before arcane archers came into being.

The big reasons there were Silver Bow and Manyshot.

Considering that the only other ranged weapon for non archer specialist characters is the storm/epic storm which was released quite some time ago I think this is appropriate especially since this is again a level 13 quest.

But is it a good thing that this bow is just attractive to people who don't really want to use ranged DPS anyway? Wouldn't it be better if it was also something Arcane Archer would use?

Or maybe it would be impossible to balance that way... it's just that with how rarely the Mark ingredients drop, it's hard for me to picture anyone taking the time to upgrade this bow, or shoot it much once you did have it.

I personally think the bracer is overpowered for a level 13 quest - I should not want to use a level 13 loot on my level 20 archer with epic loot that is actually kind of sorry and poor design in my opinion.

Yes, I find the bracer a bit overpowered in the same way I thought the Charged Gauntlets from Chronoscope were too good for ML 5. But that's just a minor thing... if the Bracer had given 5d6 on crit instead of 10d6 on vorpal, that would be really bad!

[The_Cataclysm]

...yes, I never said they did get any; I didn't think there was any question on that matter. I was simply agreeing that it would be reasonable to hope for and expect some new finesse weapons.

Cheers,
Kernal

Yes, it should have been reasonable to expect one finesse weapon in a system that is about semi-customizable weapons. Oh, well, maybe for the next such system that gets added...

[patang01]

The u7 greatsword with the rage proc seems like a very nice combo. It's nice that they step away from weapons that do huge amount of elemental damage and add specialization to weapons again, but not just the regular usually meaningless stuff. This would be very useful for a horc with something like fighter THW greatsword PRE. And a nice hold over until you can start crafting GS. And the different armors are pretty interesting too. We all know that AC is fairly irrelevant mid to late game unless you specialize as a tank so having something that can add some spice to it makes different tactics interesting.

Kudos for adding spice to the game.

[t0r012]

uhhh... wait a sec here. hold the phone


monk TR with feat, for 1 die step, and this robe @ level 12 is rolling with 2d10 fists?
monk1= 1d6 , monk 4=1d8 , monk 8=1d10, monk 12=2d6. 1 die step for PL feat 2d8 , 1 die step for robe 2d10.
forget Jiz's needing to be in earth, Wind stance throwing 2d10s with iTWF @ level 12?

that is a facefull of monk win right there. throw in heavy fort and a good concentration mod to boot. Sure you give up icy or dt but you get the choice AC for damage.

that is one tasty monk robe.
and BtA not BtC to boot like the Mabar stuff.

[maddmatt70]

The comment to which I was responding used Queen Laliat as the example. Realistically, it's hard to think of any other situation where an ordinary character would care enough about ranged damage to go to the bother of carrying a special bow for it; especially if the bow isn't really good at damage. (+5 Holy Frost Pure Good is 4d6 or about worth 38 str, which is high for that level).

There are times in the course of play from 13-20 where a bow is useful these are rare and far between but it can happen. More to the point is someday there could be a quest like the demon queen where it is useful to range, but no dr is involved. I will acquire this bow on my paladin and my multi-class fighter personally.

The big reasons there were Silver Bow and Manyshot.

So dwarves should use axe throwers and other races bows with this new bow. That works for me.

But is it a good thing that this bow is just attractive to people who don't really want to use ranged DPS anyway? Wouldn't it be better if it was also something Arcane Archer would use?

They have been releasing quite a number of bows and other items/weapons every mod. I think there is a market for this and it is fine that the devs addressed this market. There are other markets out there that could be addressed like the thrower market.

Or maybe it would be impossible to balance that way... it's just that with how rarely the Mark ingredients drop, it's hard for me to picture anyone taking the time to upgrade this bow, or shoot it much once you did have it.

I do not know about that if I am running this quest for the bracer I may upgrade it on a melee or if this quest has good xp I will in the course of levelling upgrade this bow. As I sad it is fine the devs address different markets in the game.

Yes, I find the bracer a bit overpowered in the same way I thought the Charged Gauntlets from Chronoscope were too good for ML 5. But that's just a minor thing... if the Bracer had given 5d6 on crit instead of 10d6 on vorpal, that would be really bad!

Poor analogy. On my melee I do not use the regular non epic ml5 gauntlets when I get the proper epic/end game gear made which is unlike the bracer for my archer. The two best item bracer/glove sets at end game for achers is the epic claw set or this bracer combined with the epic spectral gloves.

[Odin's_Hugin]

Has anyone upgraded Stonedust Handwraps in this caldron yet?

If so, can you post it here? Tyvm.

[Glenalth]

Im still waiting for return about if the Stonedust Wraps upgraded become Stunning+10 or not.

Seems unlikely.

[Odin's_Hugin]

Seems unlikely.

I had heard they become +5, so I was expecting a stunning+8 or a stunning+10. I'll be disapointed if it's still +6.

[The_Cataclysm]

I had heard they become +5, so I was expecting a stunning+8 or a stunning+10. I'll be disapointed if it's still +6.

It's already getting an upgrade to +5 and getting an extra property on it. Why should the stunning also be increased?

[voodoogroves]

It's already getting an upgrade to +5 and getting an extra property on it. Why should the stunning also be increased?

Because unless the other properties are "cooks dinner" and "comes with free cash" they won't be used in favor of other Stunning 10 wraps by the vast majority of stunners.

[The_Cataclysm]

Because unless the other properties are "cooks dinner" and "comes with free cash" they won't be used in favor of other Stunning 10 wraps by the vast majority of stunners.

Ok. Now what level would a +5 stunning 10 wraps be? By my calculations, it would be level 20. So you are telling me that handwraps that fall out of a level 12 quest should be more powerful than a level 20 item?

If you don't want to use them because they aren't +6 stunners, but they have multiple effects on to of them already, so they shouldn't get an upgrade to stunning just because you want to be so.

[patang01]

Because unless the other properties are "cooks dinner" and "comes with free cash" they won't be used in favor of other Stunning 10 wraps by the vast majority of stunners.

It's a midlevel item so hopefully the additional properties are worth the use and not that it's maximized to the hilt. I think it would be a mistake to make mid level item something anyone would use constantly all the way to level 20.

[voodoogroves]

It's a midlevel item so hopefully the additional properties are worth the use and not that it's maximized to the hilt. I think it would be a mistake to make mid level item something anyone would use constantly all the way to level 20.

You'd be surprised how many monks are using something like +1 thundering of stunning 10 at cap.

I would have no problem with a mid-level item that gets upgraded be something useful in the end game. What is the ML after upgrade? It starts at ML 10.

Is it as powerful as, say, a Torc of Raiyum-De? (ML 11) Bracers of the Glacier? (ML 13)

[gurgar78]

You'd be surprised how many monks are using something like +1 thundering of stunning 10 at cap.

I would have no problem with a mid-level item that gets upgraded be something useful in the end game. What is the ML after upgrade? It starts at ML 10.

Is it as powerful as, say, a Torc of Raiyum-De? (ML 11) Bracers of the Glacier? (ML 13)

It's also not a raid item.

Just sayin.

[voodoogroves]

Maybe I wasn't clear anyway.

Anyone who is trying to stun honestly and not just hoping for the 3% proc wants the biggest stunning number possible ... unless the wraps just have wicked other abilities. +6 to stunning, for most stunning monks, isn't going to be worth it compared to +10 stunning.

They look nifty, I like the stoneskin proc and all but I'd only use them when I was being defensive - and not when I'm stunning in earnest - for those times, I'd go with the highest stunning number I could find.

[gurgar78]

Maybe I wasn't clear anyway.

Anyone who is trying to stun honestly and not just hoping for the 3% proc wants the biggest stunning number possible ... unless the wraps just have wicked other abilities. +6 to stunning, for most stunning monks, isn't going to be worth it compared to +10 stunning.

They look nifty, I like the stoneskin proc and all but I'd only use them when I was being defensive - and not when I'm stunning in earnest - for those times, I'd go with the highest stunning number I could find.

Definitely understand what you mean. I think people are just saying that it's only a level 12(Maybe?) item when upgraded. You might be wishing for a little too much by hoping for Stunning +10.

Stunning +6 is more than adequate at level 10/12.

[voodoogroves]

Dunno, maybe I'm on the extreme side.

I have a set of ML 6 +2 stunning +6 wraps I use at 6th. At 10th it's +1 thundering of stunning +8 or RR +1 shock of stunning 10.

On my stunners, I want to stun. To me, that's a 4 difference on the DC on the ones I fire off, as well as a difference in the DC on the 3% procs.

[Angelus_dead]

It's already getting an upgrade to +5 and getting an extra property on it. Why should the stunning also be increased?

The problem is that there's a diversity of players with very different needs. It's understandable that a player character that already has lots of advantages would be less attracted to this named item.

Fairly experienced players (TRs or alts) have all kinds of reliable buffs to their attack roll, including simply higher strength. They prefer a +1 Stunner 10, because their attack rolls hit anyway.

Players who are newer or less knowledgeable will do better with +5 Stunner 6, because the 4 more attack actually makes a difference.