Feedback - Rogue Hirelings

[Thoon]

We are looking for more feedback on Rogue Hirelings. If you can, please take some time to run with them and then fill out this online survey, and post any other feedback you may have in this thread.

[patang01]

I tried out the rogue hireling and I like it despite it's limitations. It's perfect for a TR or anyone running enough stuff solo without always finding the right quest to PUG. And it allows me to make a build that doesn't include a splash of rogue simply because I need a toon that can solo everything.

It won't change the need for competent player rogues and it's not perfect enough to handle every single scenario. But as I created and ran a half elf bard this morning it was nice to have a alternative to multi class or PUG, if not to get some extra XP by being able to find object traps and disarm something I normally would be able to do.

And it's especially ideal to use them with a bard since I can boost their abilities (unless that part is broken) with songs and spells and hopefully squeek some additional use out of them. Far better use than favored soul hirelings that spend all their SP trying to nuke stuff.

But I do second, third and fourth the sentiment that there need to be some kind of function to make the rogue 'roam' a little bit more to either scout or locate boxes that are beyond the traps.

[Wren666]

I hope that Rogue hirelings WILL fail.
Otherwise I will have to abandon my Rogue

or lower your prices

[redgod]

I hope that Rogue hirelings WILL fail.
Otherwise I will have to abandon my Rogue

i hear this alot but it seams backwards to me if you have a rogue for just trap skills your missing 90% of the class.
to say your rogue witch can have some of the highest game dps is useless because groups dont need a trap monkey anymore is dumb.

It's dumb because we dont need trap monkeys now or for a long time now, traps can be avoided or survived through as is.

I challenge anyone to name a quest that can not be compleated without disarming a trap.

[IAmDesolator3]

this would put rogues out of business and they'd have to go get a normal desk job instead of stealing stuff lol.

[Nospheratus]

They cannot swim. Useless in Operation: Blockade Buster.. the only reason I'd use them is for door picking, BAH!

Rogue, Level 20 Gold Seal Contract ~ Sullivan Tiehl
Assassinate DC ~ 13 Useless...


I'd say overall, this Hireling is an overall FAIL.


Great try though devs.

And I just noticed, the level 20 rogue, has not trained open locks at all.... he cannot pick locks.
Same with level 19 Tatyana ~ Mechanic
Same with level 18 Osrik Rivalis ~ Thief Acrobat
Same with level 17 Mariana ~ Assassin 13 DC

A level 20 rogue's assassinate DC should be at least 30+INT (10 + Rogue level + INT modifier). If it's not or doesn't show that, it's a bug.

[Ryiah]

I hope that Rogue hirelings WILL fail.

I hope they do well at low levels. At higher levels its less of an issue, but at low levels I can't begin to list the number of newcomers who fail at their rogues. I've run with a few that used intelligence as their dump score and, even with an at-level item and skill boost, totally failed to do their job on normal difficulty.

[Gremmlynn]

I hope they do well at low levels. At higher levels its less of an issue, but at low levels I can't begin to list the number of newcomers who fail at their rogues. I've run with a few that used intelligence as their dump score and, even with an at-level item and skill boost, totally failed to do their job on normal difficulty.

I would think they would see more use in groups that can't find any rogue than those that already have one.

[Bernaise]

Last night on Live we were running Gianthold and had a LFM Rogue up for 90 minutes before getting one in group. Takes the edge off of gloom/doom rantings from Rogues stating that they'll be put out of business.

[Ciaran]

Last night on Live we were running Gianthold and had a LFM Rogue up for 90 minutes before getting one in group. Takes the edge off of gloom/doom rantings from Rogues stating that they'll be put out of business.

By that logic, since traffic in the morning and evening has INCREASED in my area despite the overall state of the economy and the increasing unemployment rate, I guess that takes the edge off of the gloom/doom rantings from the unemployed?

That aside, smart parties don't take Rogues in group JUST for their trap-monkey abilities. In fact, that's probably a distant consideration in most cases.

[shugoseru]

The main problem i see is most people think rogues are just trap monkeys. this in turn leads to a decrease in rogue players. i have been on for almost 2 years and have only seen one other dedicated rogue. i myself run a 13rogue/ 2 ranger for the sole purpose that i enjoy taking my time on quests which means i have to solo. I am here to enjoy myself and the fun lies in running a quest to completion and getting everything available. these new hirelings will allow that so everyone quit your b!t(hin and let us soloers have some fun.

[butlerfamilywa]

I hope that Rogue hirelings WILL fail.
Otherwise I will have to abandon my Rogue

From what I have seen of the rogue, with their extremely low to no DC on their assassinate, trouble with getting them positioned for trap finding ect...

Even if they do flourish as a hireling... I'd take a PC rogue over an NPC rogue ANYDAY...

Not to mention, 25% of PC's know how to play rogues, 0% of computers know how to play rogues

[EKKM]

I hope that Rogue hirelings WILL fail.
Otherwise I will have to abandon my Rogue

People said the same thing about cleric hirelings yet we still have clerics.

Looking forward to soloing Xorian Cipher!

[Marupal]

Ran Tomb of the Crimson Heart on normal (CR5) with the lvl 5 rogue:
He could spot all traps and hidden doors
could not locate any traps unless his skill action boost was active
couldn't unlock any of the doors attempted without using the skill boost
only located one hidden door without using the skill boost
didn't have a problem disabling traps once they were located.

I don't expect these guys to be able to touch things on elite or epic,or even on hard without me using resources for buffs on them but it seems strange that he had such a tough time on normal. Are the skills off by a little on him? If the lvl4 hireling could go through Gwylan's then maybe I should try him out in Crimson Heart just to see what happens.

Agree with previous posts about wanting a way to make them range ahead and put them in sneak mode.

[William_the_Bat]

People thought that hireling clerics would make player clerics obsolete... until people realized how much better a real live player cleric is.

I can't imagine hireling rogues being so superior to player character rogues that you'd deny a player entrance to your quest so that you could take a hireling instead.

Sure, there's the occasional "rogue" who says he's a DPS build and did not take disable device and gets angry if you imply that he's too squishy the third time you pick up his soul stone.... And you'll find almost exactly as many of them as you do the drow cleric with two dwarven axes (no proficiency or twf feats) who can't understand why people don't think his "battlecleric" build is uber.

[SisAmethyst]

stupid idea youre making the unique classes in to hires
soon people will solo with store hires and get full xp all traps all monsters not a good idea

Well, Hirelings will not work in Raids, so for the traps in VoN you will still need a real Rogue. Further those Hirelings are somewhat stupid. Also Hirelings tend to hang on your but like a limpet and even not back off when fighting a big cleaving boss, which finally lead to the point that they take a bunch of damage and eventually die. In that case your XP gain from a disarmed trap is already nearly gone.
Further in most cases you already have to stand in-front of the trap box that the Hireling will be able to find and disarm them, which mean traps like in Cabal or traps with a box behind the trap will probably not be picked by a Hireling (but I will try Cabal later)
Last but not least it is a bit clumsy to order the hireling and in case the trap box is behind the trap you would need evasion or otherwise jump the trap. In that case you wouldn't even bother in most cases to order your hireling to do something as you can't leave that spot then either. This while a real Rogue Player can disarm a trap while the others already advance. So I doubt it will change much and if I have the option I would prefer to have a Player Rogue in the Party then a Hireling.
Needless to say that most chests and doors can already be knocked or opened with a bell, and that good Rogues have more to give then just trap-smithing.

[SisAmethyst]

Ran Tomb of the Crimson Heart on normal (CR5) with the lvl 5 rogue:
He could spot all traps and hidden doors
could not locate any traps unless his skill action boost was active
couldn't unlock any of the doors attempted without using the skill boost
only located one hidden door without using the skill boost
didn't have a problem disabling traps once they were located.

I don't expect these guys to be able to touch things on elite or epic,or even on hard without me using resources for buffs on them but it seems strange that he had such a tough time on normal. Are the skills off by a little on him? If the lvl4 hireling could go through Gwylan's then maybe I should try him out in Crimson Heart just to see what happens.

Agree with previous posts about wanting a way to make them range ahead and put them in sneak mode.

It seems that different Rogues have other strengths. If the level 5 rogue is trimmed for combat then his trap-smithing skills will lack, while may do quite a lot of sneak damage. I tryed out a level 4 rogue who not had any issues with Elite traps.

[SisAmethyst]

... so just a small update ... I tryed the lvl 15 hireling in Cabal Elite as well as the lvl 17 and a lvl 20 one. None of them was able to find the box. Even not after I jumped inside to the location. The Hirelings while having evasion mostly survived the spike but they keept standing inside of the trap instead to move the slightest bit, even not closer to me.
The level 19 Hireling had a skill boost and mechanic repair. This Hireling was at least able to find the box (with skill boost), however she blowed the bow with the 4th attempt.



Maybe they would have found the box and disarmed with the proper buffs, but if a level 20 Rogue can't find the box, then they are probably not designed for trap-smithing and more or less just another squishy meele hireling ... or say at least, not designed for traps you can anyway already avoid or jump ...

One good point thou ... it seem they try to get behind the mobs for sneak attacks, but on the other side they should back of more often when they take to much damage.

[William_the_Bat]

Not being able to find the elite cabal trap is no indication of actual usefulness. Try them on the traps in rainbow or monestary instead.

Fact is, more than a few reasonably well-built player rogues can't do that without outside buffs.

If you do insist on popping the trap in cabal on elite, bring a bard with GH, skill song, etc etc to help, like a player would.

[shabam]

just wanted leave some feedback here about the rogue hirelings, i like them alot so far, it is nice being able to get that extra trap xp =) also got some traps in a epic claw of vulkoor he had to use his boost inorder to find them and seemd to disable it most of the time but some of traps he blew. main thing i dont like is the assasinate dcs that was mentioned earlier and there sometimes clumsy with traps and end up blowing running over the trap and blowing it up "Mines" in particular but overall this is a excellent addition, Thank you!