Holy and Pure Good

[AltheaSteelrain]

Here's my problem, both of them bypass certain DR of "evil" monsters (orthons, devils.. etc etc...) right?

If so, then a pure good / good burst tier on a greensteel weapon would yield the same dr breaking results excluding additional DR bypass requirement (Silver, Bysheyk... Junts...) just as a holy property would.

So how come people suggest to go Holy instead of Good Burst on Greensteel if both of them already bypass certain DR and the only difference is the DPS, where holy is better as constant damage whereas good burst is better on auto crit/on crit scenarios.

I find good burst better than holy given that on ideal epic runs its an auto crit fest but am also aware that the reality is most epic PUGs are not CC heavy to begin with.

Or is there a DR/Silver + Holy/Junts on bosses which I am not aware of?

Just a thought.

PS: Hi Junts

Discuss.

[Pape_27]

maybe because holy is tier 1 and good burst is tier 2? having the holy element on tier 1 may create more flexibility in crafting.

[Lithic]

People serious about epics tend to make a couple greensteel weapons specifically for the auto-crit times (triple earth heavy picks for example, or freezing ice picks). If you aren't making a trash beater, then you are better off with holy because it does much more damage than goodburst on non-auto crit mobs. I guess you could always make a shock/good burst/shocking blast/lightning2 pick for trash mobs, its just rather expensive and I think the lack of a hold effect might outweigh the 600pt proc on epic.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Doing first tier Holy also allows you to put a +1 exceptional stat in tier two if your only concerned with using it as a boss beater...in the case of MIN II's anyways.

[ConnorMacLoad]

I may be wrong here. But I think holy does more damage than good burst. I think holy does 7 damage per strike, and good burst does 6.3. Do not quote me on it, but I think that is the case.

I may also have totally miss read your post

edit: sorry, that was on a khopesh

[ryingar]

maybe because holy is tier 1 and good burst is tier 2? having the holy element on tier 1 may create more flexibility in crafting.

Doing first tier Holy also allows you to put a +1 exceptional stat in tier two if your only concerned with using it as a boss beater...in the case of MIN II's anyways.

In the following I am refering to MinII weaps speficially:

First - Good hits Evil and Neutral mobs. Holy only hits evil. Most put good on their weap not holy. If you dont agree with this feel free to make both and see which is more effective.

Second - No one who is making a Named mob beater is going to but a +1 stat on that weap....reduces the usefulness of that weap at the cost of dual shard ings.


GL out there

[vVAnjilaVv]

In the following I am refering to MinII weaps speficially:

First - Good hits Evil and Neutral mobs. Holy only hits evil. Most put good on their weap not holy. If you dont agree with this feel free to make both and see which is more effective.

Second - No one who is making a Named mob beater is going to but a +1 stat on that weap....reduces the usefulness of that weap at the cost of dual shard ings.


GL out there

I said if your only using it as a BB...what good is acid damage on a greater devil?

[ConnorMacLoad]

In the following I am refering to MinII weaps speficially:

First - Good hits Evil and Neutral mobs. Holy only hits evil. Most put good on their weap not holy. If you dont agree with this feel free to make both and see which is more effective.

Second - No one who is making a Named mob beater is going to but a +1 stat on that weap....reduces the usefulness of that weap at the cost of dual shard ings.


GL out there

But don't most people make Min II as a boss beater, in which case, aren't they all evil?

[sirgog]

If you are making a Lit 2 khopesh, the choice is between:

Holy Shocking Burst:
3d6 on hit (10.5), 3d6+2d10 on crit (21.5) against evil, 3.5/14.5 against good or neutral

and

Shock Goodburst:
2d6 on hit (7), 6d6 on crit (21) against evil or neutral, 3.5/3.5 against good.


Only time Shock Goodburst is better is against neutral mobs (maybe 10-20% of endgame epic trash at most), and it's not nearly far enough ahead to justify spending 10 large scales on a pair of Shock/GB weapons. Holy/SB is better all around.

[ryingar]

I said if your only using it as a BB...what good is acid damage on a greater devil?

If you are only going to use it as a BB. Go for it. But Ill bet that you'll use it alot more often on other mobs than you think.

But don't most people make Min II as a boss beater, in which case, aren't they all evil?

Good point, though people make it as a DPS weap and a boss beater...usually the first GS weap made for a toon.... thus you'd want that to be more functional. There were a lot of discusions on this back when the shroud came out and i imagine it will always be discussed and argued both ways.

I prefer the versitality of the good burst than the holy. Though this does depend on the crit range of the weap. What type of weap are you planing on making?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Oh trust me, I have a holy/acid/acid MIN II, and I like to use it a lot on other things, but some people have a lot of ingredients and can afford to just specifically make BB's and use something else on trash.

I get quite IRKED with my MIN II in places like Shavarath where the only thing proccing most of the time is the holy...in places like that I use a different weapon.

[AltheaSteelrain]

thank you all for the replies.

I am actually using a shock + good burst bow and a Holy + good burst bow for shroud

[vVAnjilaVv]

thank you all for the replies.

I am actually using a shock + good burst bow and a Holy + good burst bow for shroud

WAIT!!! You're talking about ranged?!?! /facepalm

[Matuse]

If you only compare Good Burst vs Holy, of course it's going to look really odd.

But you need to look at Holy+Shocking Burst vs Shock+Good Burst, because both elements have to be factored in.

[AltheaSteelrain]

WAIT!!! You're talking about ranged?!?! /facepalm

Indeed /doublefaceplam

If you only compare Good Burst vs Holy, of course it's going to look really odd.

But you need to look at Holy+Shocking Burst vs Shock+Good Burst, because both elements have to be factored in.

And so, what about holy + shock bust vs shock + good burst esp. on ranged weapons during manyshot?

[sirgog]

For arcane archers, Earthgrab and Trap the Soul are the best options for trash mobs. For bosses, stop piking and put the bow away, time to pull out a real weapon

[Dandonk]

Min2 Holy weapon: 2d6 on hit, 38d6 over 20 rolls.

Min2 Goodburst pesh: 1d6 on hit, 4d6 on crit. With normal 17-20 crit range (4 times 4d6) this gives 19d6+16d6, or 35d6. So 3d6 or 10.5 damage less over 20 attacks, or about 0.5 per hit.

Min2 Goodburst rapier: 19d6 from on hit. 15-20 crit range, 3d6 on crit - giving 18d6. So total of 37d6 over 20 rolls. Just 1d6 less than holy version, 0.175 per hit.

If you are a kensai, goodburst gives better DPS than holy for these two weapons (ups damage to 39d6 for pesh, 40d6 for rapier).

I assume crit threat=crit confirm, of course.

Or am I totally mistaken? And burst procs despite fortification, right?

[Junts]

Here's my problem, both of them bypass certain DR of "evil" monsters (orthons, devils.. etc etc...) right?

If so, then a pure good / good burst tier on a greensteel weapon would yield the same dr breaking results excluding additional DR bypass requirement (Silver, Bysheyk... Junts...) just as a holy property would.

So how come people suggest to go Holy instead of Good Burst on Greensteel if both of them already bypass certain DR and the only difference is the DPS, where holy is better as constant damage whereas good burst is better on auto crit/on crit scenarios.

I find good burst better than holy given that on ideal epic runs its an auto crit fest but am also aware that the reality is most epic PUGs are not CC heavy to begin with.

Or is there a DR/Silver + Holy/Junts on bosses which I am not aware of?

Just a thought.

PS: Hi Junts

Discuss.

Holy deals 2d6 damage per hit. Good burst provides only 1d6 damage, plus its burst.

Elemental effects provide 1d6 damage per hit, and 1d6 damage on their elemental burst + the bursting damage.

By taking holy tier 1, you get a combined 3d6 damage on every swing, instead of 2d6. The burst damage is slightly lower (the d10 2d10 vs 3d6 4d6 etc progressions), but the extra 1d6 damage on every attack is a lot better than a slight difference on critical hits.

[sephiroth1084]

Most monsters we fight at end game are evil, so the times are few when Holy is worse than Pure Good. Add to that the fact that against the large majority of that subset of monsters, you're likely looking to use a greater bane over most greensteel options anyway; constructs are immune to most elements or gain some benefits from them (acid heals some golems, lightning hastes others). I could see using a Lightning II weapon that's Shock/Good Burst on elementals, but it would be worse against all the other stuff you're smacking around.

Also...why make a Pos/Pos bow? I could be wrong, but I thought the Silver Longbow was better than triple Pos, or close enough that spending ingredients is kind of silly.

[Nyvn]

In the following I am refering to MinII weaps speficially:

First - Good hits Evil and Neutral mobs. Holy only hits evil. Most put good on their weap not holy. If you dont agree with this feel free to make both and see which is more effective.

Second - No one who is making a Named mob beater is going to but a +1 stat on that weap....reduces the usefulness of that weap at the cost of dual shard ings.


GL out there

How many neutral mobs do you really fight? Elementals, constructs, animals?