Dear clerics,

[Tirkan]

I have to say, if the cleric is in the scrum and healing w/ Aura and Positive Energy Burst, and occasional mass cures, and they're among the last people to die...the cleric probably isn't the one who is the problem.

[protokon]

This is my last post in this thread, it really says something when the vast majority of the people who have commented in this thread are taking offense to something. The original post was obviously about bad healers, and now every healer is in this thread defending their lousy healing tactics. It really just reinfornces my point that a vast majority of healers are complete garbage or easily offended moron healbots who don't know the full potential of the divine classes. The original post was mostly about the aura and poor healing of a certain group of healers who may or may not be reading this thread and suddenly it's about how lousy melees or how I don't know what I'm talking about or something else shortsighted or "uninformed" as one particular individual said. The point still stands, the aura is not a substatial form of healing nor is it a substitute for any heals you may or may not throw. If you take offense to this then stop sucking.

did you stick your tongue out at the monitor when you submitted this post?

[Thelmallen]

This is my last post in this thread, it really says something when the vast majority of the people who have commented in this thread are taking offense to something. The original post was obviously about bad healers, and now every healer is in this thread defending their lousy healing tactics. It really just reinfornces my point that a vast majority of healers are complete garbage or easily offended moron healbots who don't know the full potential of the divine classes. The original post was mostly about the aura and poor healing of a certain group of healers who may or may not be reading this thread and suddenly it's about how lousy melees or how I don't know what I'm talking about or something else shortsighted or "uninformed" as one particular individual said. The point still stands, the aura is not a substatial form of healing nor is it a substitute for any heals you may or may not throw. If you take offense to this then stop sucking.

Oh my lord. I'm sorry you had a bad run but healers can heal with aura and masses while inside on part IV meleeing Harry, they really can, especially good clerics like Sueture.

[justagame]

I use empowered mass cure light and mod and when the blades come in sometimes a mass serious or critical. On occasion I will throw a mass heal but honestly when you pug at all mass heals only are a recipe for disaster, many can't survive the wait between them. I have nearly 420 hp and good gear and could survive inside but have decided its better to hang back, makes it easier to adjust when lag or other things go wrong. I do use my aura and the occasional blast to keep myself healed when a stray blade hits me or i get a meteor storm to the face. Could I replace my skivver with a DR busting mace to beat on Harry... sure, will I, no. Does this make me a "moron healbot"... perhaps.

I have said it before and will say it again...these threads aften do any learning cleric a diservice. There really is no one "right" way. Experience, gear, ability to size up a group, ability and willingness to change depending on the circumstances... these are the things that make a good healer. I could put together a group tonite when i log on that could get through the shoud without me using anything but wands and scrolls... does that make me a great healer? Some of the worst healers I have seen are those that are new to the game and get lucky enough to with great groups all the time. These "healers" get a couple of subpar builds in the group or things start to go wrong and they can't keep up. Then you hear the inevitable complaining about how its everyone elses fault but theirs. Contrast that with someone like Hex... yea she runs with guys that can pretty much keep themselves healed all the time... and they give her the freedom to have fun with her divine builds, but when things go to hell she may complain...but things don't collapse either. She adjusts and gets it done. She is not the only one just a good example.

I am frankly sick of people saying you HAVE to do it this way... or you HAVE to do it that way. Guess what if you do things the same everytime you are probably doing it wrong.

This is a fair point. Every time I read a "ran into another healer I'll never run with again" thread, it reminds me of my own experience. My very first toon was a cleric. It was a while before I settled into a shroud pattern I was comfortable with. It went something like this.

Shroud 1. I was paranoid, afraid to get a bad rep. No gear to speak of. This was when the level cap was 16. Part 4 took 3 full rounds, and part 5 was long and tough as well. Drank 6 potions, out of sheer fear of getting the blame for a wipe. Cleaned me nearly out of pots, didn't do another shroud for a while.

Shroud 2. Convinced i needed to use mana more sparingly, had a wipe in part 4 as I tried to get too cute and time the heals more carefully. The problem is, even quicken on, what you think is the right time can be too late.

Shrouds 3-6. Settled into a better pattern, but almost always used 1 pot. Seemed there was always something amiss -- a long part 4, some missed heals, the guy I had targeted would jump out (I hated that). I later learned to be observant and pick my part my 4/5 target carefully, and make it someone not likely to jump out of the group.

Shrouds 7-15. Finally had a SP item, so that took some pressure off. Only needed pots in emergencies, or groups with below average dps. Also learned how to run the pools faster. Finally in a comfort zone. Every once in a while, I'd mis-judge mass cure timing and there would be a couple of deaths, but nothing major.

Shrouds 15 - approx 30. This was the era of bad shroud lag. You couldn't time your heals in parts 4 or 5, because lag was so bad the heals would sometimes hit 5 or 6 seconds after you cast them. It was really that bad. People who say it was an excuse just have no idea what they were talking about. Entire parties would go from (seemingly) full red bars to wipe in seconds. Your only choice was to spam mass cures nonstop, no matter what the red bars looked like. It was then that I started to get picky about groups. If it was a leader I knew, or a guild my (small) guild sometimes ran with, I would feel comfortable on my cleric. Because when you're spamming nonstop heals, you really can't afford a 2-3+ rounder. Of course, somewhere mixed in there were about half a dozen shrouds where harry would go brain-dead, and it was easy.

Shrouds 30-40. With the lag better, I settled on a strategy I described much earlier in the thread. But if anyone had judged me in those early days, I'd have no one to run with now. To paraphrase a popular saying: Being a good cleric comes from experience. Experience comes from being a bad cleric.

You gotta try things, and not be afraid to fail. If you fail, you do it differently next time. If anyone who wants to blacklist you for one bad run (whether it's your fault or not), well -- it's a game, they should find a life, and you should find more tolerant people to run with.

[TipsyDrow]

Please get some hit points and a some sort of Proof against poison. ALso get some weapons that break DR so that you dont have to be in there longer than necessary.

Thanks.
Clerics who are tired of being blamed for poor melee performance.

Agreed 100%

I heal shroud with my lil lvl 17 cleric. Here's what I do in both parts 4 and 5. I stand back and alternate mass heals and mass cures with the other healer. In tandem and in sync this works like a dream, however if the melee are **** poor and can't beat their way out of a wet paper bag, then my 1400 sp goes fairly quickly. At that point I equip a harry beater, throw up the empowered heal aura, wade into combat and alternate between beating his arse and bursting maxed/empowered bursts. What? ya thought all clerics just stand back and pike when out of SP?

Stop blaming the clerics.

[hecate355]

.....the whole thing about bad healers, bad barbs, bad rogues, bad 'insert random thing'

maybe positive examples are what we need instead of this constant thing about 'some one did something wrong'

more than once, a person who i felt was total garbage, turned out to be quite decent in just some week or 2 later.

also im quite sure, while not doing anything differently, for some groups i have been 'bad healer' for others iv been 'nice healing' so where the heck are logics in that?

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

.....the whole thing about bad healers, bad barbs, bad rogues, bad 'insert random thing'

maybe positive examples are what we need instead of this constant thing about 'some one did something wrong'

Well, technically, this thread is about the OP, who almost failed a shroud with 3 healing classes, who then decided to throw the blame on a particular class. Then, when people called him on it, he gets defensive, and when people from that group showed up and gave us the REAL story, the OP needed to try to cover up his "modifications" to the story. Methinks outside of the OP, the rest of the people here are open minded enough to realize that the failure there probably lied more with the leadership and coordination, and that no particular class or methodology is inherently BAD, as long as the player knows what they are doing and is properly equipped. (that goes for melees AND healers)



Oh, and as far as the OP...I doubt this is the last time you will be posting, since it's the 2nd (or 3rd?) time you've said you're done, but I just need to say I agree with you somewhere finally:

This is my last post in this thread, it really says something when the vast majority of the people who have commented in this thread are taking offense to something. The original post was obviously about bad healers, and now every healer is in this thread defending their lousy healing tactics. It really just reinfornces my point that a vast majority of healers are complete garbage or easily offended moron healbots who don't know the full potential of the divine classes. The original post was mostly about the aura and poor healing of a certain group of healers who may or may not be reading this thread and suddenly it's about how lousy melees or how I don't know what I'm talking about or something else shortsighted or "uninformed" as one particular individual said. The point still stands, the aura is not a substatial form of healing nor is it a substitute for any heals you may or may not throw. If you take offense to this then stop sucking.

Sorry I didn't read what you said since it was probably dumb. <--exactly!

[Tanka]

This thread is still going? Wow. What a waste of time.

[Aegnore]

You just ended up with a bad group; dont conclude that majority of the healers are garbage - coz stating that is garbage itself.

[spyderwolf]

Oh, also I'll leave this here and quit commenting on this thread since obviously the only person who has anything to say thinks DR breakers are important.

http://images.ddoforum.turbine.com/s...d.php?t=182779

Give me a break.

omfg we're famous!

[spyderwolf]

but even on normal you can't deny you will do more DPS with a DR breaker than without. Nobody ever said they were mandatory.

thats not entirely accurate. use a esos or a lit2 and you do more dps on normal in most runs.

[PopeJual]

thats not entirely accurate. use a esos or a lit2 and you do more dps on normal in most runs.

If you have an ESoS or a LitII, then you will also have a DR breaker. You're just choosing to use something that is situationally better.

[Quikster]

If you have an ESoS or a LitII, then you will also have a DR breaker. You're just choosing to use something that is situationally better.

Not really. I know all kinds of people that make a lit II and never have a dr breaker.

[Towrn]

I LOLZ in this threads general direction........

[twizznach]

Healing shroud is a joke... I dont care what anyone says but all u need is mass heal... lol i've solo healed it with just mass heal and single target heal while meleeing and it wasnt even hard.

Even an idiot can spam 1 hotkey button that casts mass heal every 5 seconds. Now that i said that... If you die between mass heals you ether got really unlucky which is fine or you need to reroll/gear up cause curently you're a gimp.

If a shroud wipe actiualy occurs you should really check not just the cleric but also the melees that love to think they're uber as all hell and still have haggle helmet on instead of thier Minos.

[Quikster]

Healing shroud is a joke... I dont care what anyone says but all u need is mass heal... lol i've solo healed it with just mass heal and single target heal while meleeing and it wasnt even hard.

Even an idiot can spam 1 hotkey button that casts mass heal every 5 seconds. Now that i said that... If you die between mass heals you ether got really unlucky which is fine or you need to reroll/gear up cause curently you're a gimp.

If a shroud wipe actiualy occurs you should really check not just the cleric but also the melees that love to think they're uber as all hell and still have haggle helmet on instead of thier Minos.

but its a +7 bonus to my haggle!

[Postumus]

This is my last post in this thread... blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...If you take offense to this then stop sucking.

Dude, quit crying and just re-roll.

[bendover]

You didn't answer my question - what is your Min II that you think 15 more points per swing doesn't matter? It can be done without DR breakers - especially if you're dealing with sneak attack/frenzy/smite effects and the like being added on top of the base weapon damage (as DR doesn't apply to the added effects) and everyone in the group has some sort of significant guard (or multiple guard) effects in play. Not to mention if there are SP pots involved so those three clerics (and the bard) can heal forever and the arcanes can throw DPS.

Looks like it was a fun run for sure, but even on normal you can't deny you will do more DPS with a DR breaker than without. Nobody ever said they were mandatory.

I know it's not greatly important because I don't see how some one can screw up this bad but DR can effect your attacks such as sneak attack. If a mob has say a 30 DR and you can't beat that number with your base damage then it will cut into your sneak attack. Not 100% sure on smites and what not but I'd assume the same rules would apply.

Regardless, not to relevant to the situation but figured I'd point that out.

[bendover]

Dude, quit crying and just re-roll.

Oh and +1 to this. OP seems to like calling others out that have more game knowledge and experience then he does and then just proceed to tell them they suck after they make relevant points.

[unscythe]

I want to run a gimp cleric on this server now.