17/3 Clonk STR Based?

[Talltale-Storyteller]

UPDATE: I am not doing this build as WSS anymore - simply doing it as a STR based unarmed character.


So I have been/am toying with the idea of a Clonk that is str based, and picking up whirling steel strike to use longswords as ki weapons. Taking the 3 levels of monk gives me access to all the light path buffs, most notably: Aligning the heavens, fists of light, and healing ki.

I was going to do it as a half-elf ala the fighter dil, but in my impatience for the update I rolled it as a human, mostly for the human adaptability and healing amp.

So the idea is that I will play him as a melee toon spamming fists of light and with radiant servant to conserve my SP.

So my main question is this....

Is the use of longswords worth the feat investment? Basically takes 2 (3 if you count the needed proficiency - which i basically use an "extra" feat on).

If its not really worth the dps bonus of going str and longswords then I will prolly just reroll him as the Valiance build, but without the rogue level.

Also Just as a note, I do not raid or run epics, this will primarily be a solo/levelling toon. Thanks in advance for any help!


Edit:

After the discussion that has taken place in this thread I have built the following:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Breaksolo 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(3 Monk \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 247
Spell Points: 1126 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 11
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    19
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    22
Charisma              8                     9

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    12
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         5                    25
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  3                     8
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  4                    13
Listen                3                     6
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  3                     6
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

I would like some advice on my enhancement selection. I selected the heal spell crit enhancements because I wasn't sure if they applied to the Radiant Servant auras chance to crit.



Basically my playstyle is:

Using handwraps I run around in sun stance, I use passive healing via fists of light and the radiant servant aura to heal and buff while conserving spell points. In situations where I need to not be meleeing I can go into water stance and offensive cast and healbot.

I have taken this build (only to level 5: 3monk / 2 cleric) and soloed all of TR at level 4, and all of Delera's at level 5 (died on the last boss due to not having a deathblock item )

I can give myself the water stance buff to conserve SP, I can buff all the light side buffs, and running in fire stance I have ZERO problem keeping the ki up to have myself at full health, with at least one or more mini-buffs on me.

I hope to be able to solo most content in the game with this build.


NOTE: I understand my placing that one level up point in dex is odd, the reason is that The Sublime does not allow DDO store use, and I can not be certain I will have a +2 dex tome by that time.

Look forward to hearing more insight from the community!

[Anthios888]

quicken
maximize or empower healing

toughness
power attack
improved critical

2wf
i2wf
g2wf

martial weapon proficiency: longsword
weapon focus: slashing
whirling steel strike

-----------------------
11 feats. This build gets 10 if it is a human, 9 if it is an elf. Giving up any of these things will significantly weaken the functionality of your build, whether you are soloing and leveling or running epics all day long. Power attack is essential. Improved critical gives you the pre-greensteel weapons (if you're a casual gamer) as well as a huge damage increase when you upgrade to lightning IIs. As big of a damage increase as power attack. Skipping either quicken or maximize gives you such a hit to your clericiness that one starts to wonder why even be a cleric.

I have thought about it too, but to me, it just wasn't meant to be. All this for longswords? Maybe consider skipping the 3 feats, grabbing khopesh, and do more DPS anyway.

The other issue with these builds is that having played low monk splashes, it's really difficult to keep those buffs up, because the punches all have cooldowns, and you can't really interrupt the sequence to throw a heal or whatever. I mean, it's OK, and it's a really neat concept, but considering that you're already dumping your mana, I always thought it was kind of frustrating.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

To make the feats thing tighter... you need empower healing for radiant servant. So I was looking at not getting IC.

Sigh. I think you may be right, but I was really hoping maybe somebody would see a way to make it work that i did not. lol.


Thanks for the reply.

[voxson5]

Only way would be to lose 3rd monk level & pick up fighter

You wouldn't need the proficiency as a feat, & you have the fighter bonus feat for WF: Slash or WSS

Loose FoL finishers & keep centered Longswords & 17 levels of cleric

[FuzzyDuck81]

if you're playing as half elf, proficiency from dilantette is now (as of patch 7.1) counted as a prereq for whirling steel strike - but then you'd still be short on 1 feat vs. a human... personally, i'd ditch g2wf until i managed to get min2 swords, then swap out imp crit for it.

[Cartheron]

Ditch longsword, use unarmed, you will have better dps and you gain 3 feats

[grodon9999]

Ditch longsword, use unarmed, you will have better dps and you gain 3 feats

Yes, if the Mabar event comes back especially.

[painindaguild]

quicken
maximize or empower healing

toughness
power attack
improved critical

2wf
i2wf
g2wf

martial weapon proficiency: longsword
weapon focus: slashing
whirling steel strike

-----------------------
11 feats. This build gets 10 if it is a human, 9 if it is an elf.

thx for this makes it easy.

go elf. drop either emp. heal or improved critical.
improved critical wont benefit u in party's. u want ki, not killcount. more time to kill a mob = more ki.
empower heal if u solo. heal will hit for around 200 anyways so no need to boost this.

elf gets longsword profiency for free and also racial enhancements. besides the fact that u can boost ur dex for a tiny use of evasion.

The other issue with these builds is that having played low monk splashes, it's really difficult to keep those buffs up, because the punches all have cooldowns, and you can't really interrupt the sequence to throw a heal or whatever. I mean, it's OK, and it's a really neat concept, but considering that you're already dumping your mana, I always thought it was kind of frustrating.

now we got the real problem. its not hard to build a working clonk with light buffs. its not hard to see m work on paper. its hard to play m. solo this is absolutely great. u can self buff, go meditate if u like too, and the only anoying thing will be the finishers reset if u pull a lever.

In party's this gets near unplayable for the normal player and plain annoying overall. ki cant be build up cause the barb eats all the mobs in front of u. same time u need to trow that same guy a heal. then almost enuf ki, starting finsiher, need to get 5 more ki no more mobs here and guy is asking for a heal.

just for the fun of it, i hope ur unemployed cus this guy will eat ur attention like a fat man an hamburger.
long text for simple story: will require very intensive playstyle to shine.

[Phidius]

Only way would be to lose 3rd monk level & pick up fighter

You wouldn't need the proficiency as a feat, & you have the fighter bonus feat for WF: Slash or WSS

Loose FoL finishers & keep centered Longswords & 17 levels of cleric

The biggest reason to be centered with Longswords on a monk splash is for the stances - lose the 3rd monk, and you might as well lose the Whirling Strike. You'd be better off with Khopeshes, and get refunded 2 feats.

[Paleus]

You do not need to take proficiency longswords. If you go radiant servant and are a follower of the sovereign host then you are going to have to pick up an enhancement that lets you give yourself proficiency with longswords (it uses up a turn).

[teamghost]

You do not need to take proficiency longswords. If you go radiant servant and are a follower of the sovereign host then you are going to have to pick up an enhancement that lets you give yourself proficiency with longswords (it uses up a turn).

That does not count for the Whirling Steel pre-requisite, you have to be "permanently" proficient with longswords to take Whirling and the sovereign host clickie doesn't count.

-ALSO-

Someone said to drop Empower Healing but that is a pre-req for Radiant Servant so he can't skip it.

[painindaguild]

then heres u got it. elf and first take improved critical, once u have greensteel drop it for power attack.

i just hope u like button spamming

[Therigar]

You do not need to take proficiency longswords. If you go radiant servant and are a follower of the sovereign host then you are going to have to pick up an enhancement that lets you give yourself proficiency with longswords (it uses up a turn).

Meaningful and useful advice from Paleus.

quicken
maximize or empower healing

toughness
power attack
improved critical

2wf
i2wf
g2wf

martial weapon proficiency: longsword
weapon focus: slashing
whirling steel strike

Human gets you 10 feats.

Select Empower Healing instead of Maximize assuming Radiant Servant (seems all clerics are doing it). Select Maximize over Empower Healing if counting on Blade Barrier (if your main focus is soloing). Maximize also affects cure spells so has some utility in group play.

Quicken is over-valued. Its primary advantage is that spells cannot be interrupted. That they cast faster is usually a secondary bonus. If you know enough to adapt play to the group then you can fit into group situations well enough without quicken by adopting a more traditional, stand-off cleric role. If you have enough concentration and know when to run instead of fight you can survive soloing without quicken. If you free a feat by not taking Quicken you have options. You could instead take Maximize (if you took Empower Healing) or Empower Healing (if you took Maximize) or Extend (useful in combination with Maximize if you plan to use Blade Barrier extensively) or even some other feat.

Lit II seems a stretch if you are essentially a casual player whose focus is mostly on soloing. More probable is Min II and even dual Min II seems a long way off. One way to conserve feats is to take Improved Critical and not to take Toughness. When you eventually get Min II longswords you swap IC for Toughness. The problem is that losing Toughness also loses you the various enhancements so it represents a very large drop in HP. There are other ways to save a single feat. Just pointing it out so that you have options.

[sirgog]

...
Quicken is over-valued. Its primary advantage is that spells cannot be interrupted. That they cast faster is usually a secondary bonus. If you know enough to adapt play to the group then you can fit into group situations well enough without quicken by adopting a more traditional, stand-off cleric role. If you have enough concentration and know when to run instead of fight you can survive soloing without quicken. If you free a feat by not taking Quicken you have options. You could instead take Maximize (if you took Empower Healing) or Empower Healing (if you took Maximize) or Extend (useful in combination with Maximize if you plan to use Blade Barrier extensively) or even some other feat.

Quicken's primary value is that it is a prerequisite for the single best spell on your primary class's entire spell list, Mass Heal. (Well, it's a prerequisite to use it in combat anyway, and out of combat it's just the same as using lots of Heal scrolls)

If you don't take Quicken, there's no reason to take 17 Cleric levels. If you aren't taking 17 Cleric levels or more, best not to take any.

[Anthios888]

If you don't take Quicken, there's no reason to take 17 Cleric levels. If you aren't taking 17 Cleric levels or more, best not to take any.

Exactly my point. If you're not to be relied upon to heal yourself or the party in a pinch, what's the point of being a divine? Even solo, are you really ready to wipe because that pack of orthons teleported onto you, or because you hit that trap and weren't ready to save yourself? And, as far as party play or raiding, it goes without saying that the party will feel betrayed if you are unreliable for the sake of having lesser wind/sun/water stance or whatever.

Consider this: fists of light is cool, but wouldn't you have more healing when you need it with more mana and metamagics that improve your efficiency?

[Therigar]

Quicken's primary value is that it is a prerequisite for the single best spell on your primary class's entire spell list, Mass Heal. (Well, it's a prerequisite to use it in combat anyway, and out of combat it's just the same as using lots of Heal scrolls)

If you don't take Quicken, there's no reason to take 17 Cleric levels. If you aren't taking 17 Cleric levels or more, best not to take any.

This is false.

OP mentions that they are not building for Epic and that they are looking more towards solo and casual play. There is nothing in OP's parameters that requires Mass Heal.

Note, however, that my post was only intended to point out a variety of ways that OP could fit 11 feats into 10 slots and to point out that based on his parameters other feats might better serve his purpose.

What may be generally good advice for the masses may in fact be poor advice for OP and their specific situation. Since he won't get that Mass Heal until L17 and is very likely to be looking at L17 at the character's 19th or 20th level OP could very well be better off without Quicken depending on a number of other factors -- all of which are determined by his purpose in the character and expected play style.

[Therigar]

Exactly my point. If you're not to be relied upon to heal yourself or the party in a pinch, what's the point of being a divine? Even solo, are you really ready to wipe because that pack of orthons teleported onto you, or because you hit that trap and weren't ready to save yourself? And, as far as party play or raiding, it goes without saying that the party will feel betrayed if you are unreliable for the sake of having lesser wind/sun/water stance or whatever.

Consider this: fists of light is cool, but wouldn't you have more healing when you need it with more mana and metamagics that improve your efficiency?

This is pure fear mongering. We did fine with packs of Orthons and with party mass healing when we were stuck at L16 level cap and Mass Heal wasn't even available.

Quicken and Mass Heal are easy buttons. There are alternatives. But, more importantly, the conditions you speculate about might not apply to OP. See my reply to Sirgog. You worry about situations that may apply to a number of players but that might not be in OP's parameters at all.

[Kilnedric]

Ditch longsword, use unarmed, you will have better dps and you gain 3 feats

Overall, I agree with Cartheron's sentiment. But, I also understand wanting to play something just because you want to. So, if your dream is to have a healing monk dual wielding longswords, go for it! I don't think you *need* things like Toughness or Quicken just to level to 20. But, when you say you don't want to raid or do epics, realize you're probably locking yourself into that choice by not taking these. I think that's the point of what some of the posters here are telling you.

Now of course, this is coming from somebody who has much less experience than the other posters here, but I'm level 17, and I dont have Toughness or Quicken, and I'm pretty sure I can get to 20 without them. Of course, I will probably respec or reincarnate to get those if/when I want to do epics down the road.

[Anthios888]

This is pure fear mongering. We did fine with packs of Orthons and with party mass healing when we were stuck at L16 level cap and Mass Heal wasn't even available.

Quicken and Mass Heal are easy buttons. There are alternatives. But, more importantly, the conditions you speculate about might not apply to OP. See my reply to Sirgog. You worry about situations that may apply to a number of players but that might not be in OP's parameters at all.

Calling me names is really uncalled for.

My comment had nothing to do with mass heal -- something I believe anyone can live without, but about quicken. Even at 16, quicken was an essential feat for any cleric. After about level 12-15, when damage begins to interrupt casting, not having quickened heal is simply a liability.

I feel it is wrong to instruct the OP to play a battlecleric that can never reliably throw a blade barrier or heal spell on himself without worry that it will be interrupted. A soloing battlecleric will always have the aggro and needs to be able to heal himself. Situations with packs of monsters when you most need to heal or die are the same situations that you cannot heal without quicken. You might as well just play a monk with UMD.

A good cleric can certainly turn off quicken in some situations - such as when you are standing out of melee range of a boss and healing a party - but that's not what the OP wants to spend all of his time doing.

[grodon9999]

DO you really need FoL when you have radiant Aura?