Am I just crazy, or are there certain spells every arcane should have????

[Red_Knight]

The sorc was lvl 11. OP's delivery was a little harsh, and he should have buffed the sorc, but...

As someone who has played or plays most every class in the game, I find it irksome that people want the Cleric to cast Resist energy on everyone. Not that I know the OP was a Cleric/FvS, but the case stands. Clerics don't get loads of SP. Usually, when I'm on a sorc or wiz, and sometimes on paladins/rangers, I tell the cleric not to worry about buffing 'x' resistance, because I'll handle it. My bards tell Arcanists not to sweat blur/haste/rage, because I'll do it.

(Admittedly, I -do- expect to get resistances passed out to people who are incapable of selfbuffing without pots, esp. if the caster in question is >11, because the Cast version is superior to anything that can be vendor bought in terms of damage resisted, duration, and ease of dispelling)

If you aren't leading the kill count from about level eight or nine to about level fifteen...and even after in some areas such as Necropolis...

My first char was a sorcerer. I got to level 8 back then, and ended up rerolling. Multiple times. The first time was cause I'd just unlocked Drow, and was frustrated with the inability to get a team due to "Damage sorcerers suck after level 4, replace all your spells with crowd control" attitudes from the majority of players back then. I'd originally planned on taking firewall as my first level 4 spell. But I'd heard reasonable arguments in favor of getting PK instead. Not to mention, I don't think at the time you could spell swap as a sorc yet.

Should mention that because of the "Your gimped if your not pure crowd control" mindset I'd ended up soloing most of the way from level 5 to 8. At a time when DDO was NOT solo friendly.

[Kadriel]

Isn't this the same forum where is posted this game was made too easy? Not carrying resist energy at low-mid lvl is so deadly to a raid the poor sorc had to be mocked?
This things makes me lol. It's like shroud, that we used to beat at lvl 14, now parties need ppl to link beaters for lvl 20 normal shrouds.
For me this kind of reaction, instead of a good calm explanation, is one of two: either someone who is not confident enough in his abilities as he is treatened by beeing in a group with someone he or she doesn't consider optmal, or someone who is ready to yell his own real life frustations at the first guy who gives him a shadow of a reason. And gains nothing over it other than ruining someone gaming day.

[rest]

newbies Are People, Too.

Blasphemy!!

[bogart99]

Yes their are spells that are a must & if you don't know what they are ask.
its pritty stupid not to have RE yes max out your damage if thats what rocks your boat but while doing that look to your own self preseveration. high level casters run around with the right resist on stone skin blur jump and just before combat drop a displacement that doesn't make you a buff bot that makes you smart.

Having web will save your behind it doesn't turn you in to a cc bot it stops things from turning you into a pile of goo on the ground stacking a fw on top of that is gravy cc and killing spell = win. Only a fool just learns damage spells. You acted correctly op
If your a newbie read this http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175911

[Red_Knight]

Yes their are spells that are a must & if you don't know what they are ask.
its pritty stupid not to have RE yes max out your damage if thats what rocks your boat but while doing that look to your own self preseveration. high level casters run around with the right resist on stone skin blur jump and just before combat drop a displacement that doesn't make you a buff bot that makes you smart.

Having web will save your behind it doesn't turn you in to a cc bot it stops things from turning you into a pile of goo on the ground stacking a fw on top of that is gravy cc and killing spell = win. Only a fool just learns damage spells. You acted correctly op
If your a newbie read this http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175911

Assuming someone didn't take a spell you consider 'required' is stupid just proves your not too bright. Did it ever occur to you that MAYBE someone knows exactly what the spell does, and still decided not to take it for some reason? Maybe that sorcerer doesn't think they need eight different buff spells cast on them self to be effective. And such a thought process might actually be true too! Amazing isn't it? Some people might be able to play a sorcerer without relying on a bajillion buffs.

Then there's people like me who might plan out a build around a character concept. Especially a heavily RP influenced one. For my sorc, I'll be taking a large number of fire spells. There's an RP reason behind this, and I know that might make me nearly useless in some situations. Spells like Web will be there to let me contribute even if the enemy is immune to fire. Some buffs I'll take, like Resist Energies. I'll take a smattering of crowd control. But the majority of spells will be fire spells. RP wise, fire spells just come naturally while everything else is hard.

[Alabore]

Potentially self-defeating way to teach a lesson.
If I may mention it, you opened yourself to griefing.

I'd rather release and reform, minus a member, than annoy another player at the very beginning of a quest, and risk it being sabotaged midway though.
Did they die because of bad luck, or did they take the lecture too personally?
10% XP is too sweet to risk it on disgruntled team mates.

[Red_Knight]

My understanding is... they needed the resists to get through some part, and left the sorc behind since he couldn't get through without the buff. Thus they 11 manned it instead of allowing the 12th person to contribute.

[Junts]

My list of completely and conditionally indispensable spells!

Indispensables!

1: Nightshield, Jump

Jump is the key to playing an arcane caster. It is more essential than haste. When you're fully dispelled, you recast jump before haste, because it has more value for staying alive. Magic missile immunity is a huge deal in DDO, force missiles these days are extremely dangerous in higher level and epic content.

2: Resist Energy, Web

Resist energy is one of the most powerful buffs on DDO. Web is the most universally reliable, effective form of CC in the game: it hits the universally worst save, it has no spell resistance, mobs can be kited through it for repeated saves (making it better than other spells if landing it is iffy).


3: Haste, displacement

Even if you aren't casting haste for other people, these two buffs keep you alive and keep you out of harm's way. I can't understand arcane players who don't use them religiously. Unless you are playing a build that will never, ever have aggro, you should have these spells.

note: when leveling, its ok to take acid blast/fireball at 6 and then take haste at 7, and continue to use haste pots. Get haste by 7 though!

4: Wall of Fire, Fire Shield.

Wall of fire is what makes the sorceror class work on DDO. Our limted spell selection functions because wall of fire is so universally useful and powerful that it serves as a great answer to 80% of situations. Its so universal as a way of dealing with foes in all levels and difficulties that it permits us to spend our limited other spell slots on buffs and situational spells.

Fireshield is the key to keeping a non-evasion caster alive in the endgame spam of fire damage (ad less often, cold damage). The extra 50% reduction, combined with resistance and the like, will let you shrug off the omnipresent and dangerous fire damage.

5: Protection from Elements

Level 5 is a level with a lot of very bad spells. However, protection from elements is incredibly underrated. I cannot imagine playing a sorceror without the consistent ability to throw up a buffer vs elemental damage: especially lightning or extreme fire damage. This spell lets non-wf arcanes handle high elemental damages (just recast it as much as you need) in a way that no other spell, even fireshield, supports. Even with a 500 hp sorceror, this spell is the difference between dying in two blasts of epic chainlightning and not - you aren't making a dc 38 reflex save!

6: Reconstruct for Warforged

Level 6 has so many good spells that it frequently dictates your spell selections at every other level to accomodate it. If you don't take acid fog, you have to take cloudkill (a 20% concealment fog is required for raiding). If you're focused on epics, you want flesh to stone and/or symbol of persuasion. If you solo a lot, you want disintegrate. This level tends to dictate all the other levels due to the strength of its options: it's even got the most important spell for a lihgnting/acid build (chain)

7: Waves of Exhaustion. Its not bugged out anymore, but it's been the best debuff on DDO for a lot longer than it was buggy. Its range of application varies from making bosses easier to kill (-ac to von djinn or epic dq) to reducing their damage output (hit and/or damage decreases for tanks), comboing to make your webs even more potent (web + exhaustion on webbed stuff generally holds even epic mobs until the web expires), and safer/easier kiting of fast foes.

Other spells at this level will vary a lot on build: some combination of delayed-blast fireball, otto's dancing sphere, and finger of death are common and very good.

8: Polar ray. Level 8 has a dearth of spellslots, and no mater how you're specced, polar ray gives you a single-target damage spell that can't be negated or halved by a saving throw. You'll have at least some base fire/cold spec for wall of fire, and polar ray gives you the much-needed single target equivalent. Saveless damage is very valuable, since it always works.

9: Mass hold monster for epics. Wail of the banshee for nonepics. Energy drain for everyone!

Categorically indispensable!

In some cases, individual spells aren't indispensable, but you want your spell list to have "One of these 4" and "One of those two" because spells duplicate function but you must have at least one source of that function. Here are some major categories that I consider necessary to make an effective caster.

1: Concealing fogs. Fog-based concealment works on foes iwth trueseeing, so having one of the 20% concealment fog spells is essential. The lv 5 (cloudkill) or 6 (acid fog) is preferred so that it will affect mobs with mantle of invulnerability. Most people choose cloudkill for this purpose. If you don't have one of these spells and cast it on every purple-named boss who isn't the abbot, you are playing your caster wrong.

2: Negative level spells. Neg level spells provide you with a way of dealing with a threat with unexpectedly good resistance or immunity to your normal effects. Deathward on mobs isn't that common (most static mob buffs stop instant kills, but not negative energy effects like neg levels or harm), and it doesn't matter what you're doing or how high your dcs are, its eventually going to come up. In non-epic content, you can even use these spells to simply kill an otherwise intractable foe (such as with heightened saves due to dungeon alert). Energy drain and enervation are equally good for this task; enervation adds 1d4 neg levels instead of 2d4, but costs exactly half as much. Even in epic, you can combine these spells with a spell that provides saves infrequently (such as symbol of persuasion or flesh to stone) to control mobs for a very long time, even after the neg levels have worn off. Neg-leveling a foe, charming it, and then letting it own for you as its neg levels wear off in the next 20s is extremely effective, and flesh to stone provides only 1 save every 30s so the foe will be locked down for quite some time.

3: CC that attacks each saving throw. This is a more complicated point, but it creates a much more effective caster. Its pretty much impossible to specialize so heavily in any area that you land your spells for sure against the highest saves in that area. The best will saves -will- resist your enhcantment/charm spells. The best fort saves -will- resist your instant kill spells. You can get their dcs into the mid-40s, and this will still happen. The key to an effective caster is to select a range of spells that allow you to attack the weakest saving throws available. While this usually spells 'web+flesh to stone+mass hold' (reflex, fort, will respectively), there are alternatives for all of them. No matter how mcuh of an enchantor you wish to be, make sure you have a way to deal with foes that are simply immune to enchantments. You'll fight them. Its also really good if at least one of these cc effects has either a long duration (like flesh to stone or web) or can be used in a way that allows repeated saving throws (like web or otto's dancing sphere). These effects are more useful vs mobs with higher saving throws, as you can force mobs to make multiple saves against a single casting.

[bogart99]

Assuming someone didn't take a spell you consider 'required' is stupid just proves your not too bright. Did it ever occur to you that MAYBE someone knows exactly what the spell does, and still decided not to take it for some reason? Maybe that sorcerer doesn't think they need eight different buff spells cast on them self to be effective. And such a thought process might actually be true too! Amazing isn't it? Some people might be able to play a sorcerer without relying on a bajillion buffs.

I didn't call anyone stupid I said it's pretty stupid not to have RE as in a bad design choice. Your free to build your character however you choose but in doing so realize that it may not work as well as you thought it would. Though out this post you have been very defensive I haven't said anything against you so saying That I'm not very bright is a personal insult which I don't appreciate.


Please post a video if this nuking sorc that doesn't need to buff I would very much like to see how that works out. I mean no insult or sarcasm when saying that, I would very much like to see this non buffing play style working.

[Red_Knight]

Because people over the last four years have proved very quick to insult anyone who dares build with a goal other then "I want to hit the absolute peak performance and then raid endlessly". I've experienced it time and again. I have this pet project of a level 10 wizard/level 10 fighter WF. I realize it wont be as effective in raiding, but it's not intended for raiding. Yet I keep getting insulted about it. I had a sorcerer concept character that barely knows any magic outside of fire spells. I went into the build knowing it would have multiple weaknesses. Knowing that I would have to play smarter because of those weaknesses, and that I would be far less helpful vs some enemies. Again, I encountered grief while playing this character.

Almost every time someone dares to have a non-standard build idea it gets slammed. Dual wield bastard swords? It's automatically labeled as 'gimped'. If they have different views on how 'vital' a spell like haste is, nerdrage against the non-haste caster begins. Even the OP admitted to nerdraging in Tempest Spine when he/she found out a sorcerer hadn't taken a 'required' spell.

Heck, several people here in this very thread have been rather vocal about how they would react to encountering someone with spell choices they might not agree with.

[Anduri]

Because people over the last four years have proved very quick to insult anyone who dares build with a goal other then "I want to hit the absolute peak performance and then raid endlessly". I've experienced it time and again. I have this pet project of a level 10 wizard/level 10 fighter WF. I realize it wont be as effective in raiding, but it's not intended for raiding. Yet I keep getting insulted about it. I had a sorcerer concept character that barely knows any magic outside of fire spells. I went into the build knowing it would have multiple weaknesses. Knowing that I would have to play smarter because of those weaknesses, and that I would be far less helpful vs some enemies. Again, I encountered grief while playing this character.

Almost every time someone dares to have a non-standard build idea it gets slammed. Dual wield bastard swords? It's automatically labeled as 'gimped'. If they have different views on how 'vital' a spell like haste is, nerdrage against the non-haste caster begins. Even the OP admitted to nerdraging in Tempest Spine when he/she found out a sorcerer hadn't taken a 'required' spell.

Heck, several people here in this very thread have been rather vocal about how they would react to encountering someone with spell choices they might not agree with.

A lot of this is to do with people recruiting you and your class to perform certain functions. When you don't or cannot perform them then you have just wasted everyones time to an extent.

A sorcerer who cannot perform the basic functions of a sorcerer (well defined above by Junts) is just as bad as a Fighter who turns up without any weapons and starts punching mobs. Sure, you CAN do that but (a) why on earth would you want to, and (b) you sure weren't asked along for your punching ability.

[fuzzy1guy]

While resist is 100% required... You were a total jerk about it.

I'd have added you to the blacklist for the guild so a whole lot of people could avoid that kinda attitude.

Not the guy who DIDN'T know better. He needed info. you gave him grief... way to go... feel elite?

[Crann]

Yes, every Sorc should have Resist Energy. You must have fealt pretty uber by making a new player look foolish.

BTW, who still wastes time/SP on resists at the beginning of this raid?

House P buffs are 1/2 hour, Ship buffs are 1 hour.

All a matter of perspective really.

On one hand, you think this player, who is obviously new, is not worthy enough to run your uber lev 10 raid so much that you have decided to short man it, by excluding him.

On the other hand, others players may look at a guy who has made such a big deal over something so trivial, and decide he is not worthy to run with them in future runs.


BTW....I have learned more by a subtle tell from a more experienced player....espcially while leveling my first caster....than I ever did by someone acting like jerk.

TS is a newb/noob fest when pugging, since you appearantly didn't know. It is a FTP raid, and the only raid experience a large number of purely FTP players will ever have. You should be going into it fully expecting to drag a bunch of less prepared players than yourself through it, or you should not be Pugging.

If this would have happened in Kobold, or Shroud, or something else even a little later in levels, than maybe such a harsh reaction might be warranted, but TS.......really?


BTW...a subtle tell is a much more effective way of offering advice than a outwardly hostile act.

[EKKM]

I also disagree with the Nightshield thing. If it's just the Magic Missile protection part, then use Shield, because it does the same thing with two additional effects-- Nightshield does not add anything else, if you already have resistance on your gear. I can see the case where one cant find a good slot for something with resistance, but that's really about it. I never used Nightshield, and saw no problems. When I TR, I might try it, because it will stack with the Dilettante feat I want, which will free a lot.
.

At level 10, shield lasts 2mins, night shield lasts 10 mins.


OP, I think you were too harsh as it could have been a new player who didnt understand how useful it is. I certainly would have told them it is essential but left it at that.

[EKKM]

I also disagree with the Nightshield thing. If it's just the Magic Missile protection part, then use Shield, because it does the same thing with two additional effects-- Nightshield does not add anything else, if you already have resistance on your gear. I can see the case where one cant find a good slot for something with resistance, but that's really about it. I never used Nightshield, and saw no problems. When I TR, I might try it, because it will stack with the Dilettante feat I want, which will free a lot.
.

At level 10, shield lasts 1 min (no extend), night shield lasts 10 mins.


OP, I think you were too harsh as it could have been a new player who didnt understand how useful it is. I certainly would have told them it is essential but left it at that.

[PopeJual]

BTW, who still wastes time/SP on resists at the beginning of this raid?

Everyone that runs through lava?

[TitoJ]

[Me]: then you should carry pots or get house P buffs to make up for what you decide not to carry, cause I'm not wasting my sp on you.

I think that would apply to everyone you actually decided to give it to anyway...so stating something that was true to everyone, and applying it just to him was a bit naive.

Not sure if a friendly "Hey, just so you know, even a heavy nukers find resists extremly beneficial. If you don't have it right now, then I'll hit you with one." would have gotten the point across.

But it certainly would have made you look less like a moron.

[TitoJ]

Everyone that runs through lava?

Useless! It should be just for the people that STAND in the lava!

[Vellrad]

At level 10, shield lasts 2mins

Did they nerfed it last 15 minutes? Because i was using this and it's 1 minute/level duration (just as nightshield and most of buffs).

[PopeJual]

Useless! It should be just for the people that STAND in the lava!

I have ADHD, so I can't stand still for that long. That's why I just hop up and down in the lava.