Mobility still needed?

[Jesster]

Just a thought, but why not get rid of this carry-over from PnP?

The +4 dodge bonus while tumbling is generally not worth a full feat in DDO. It was taken before to get Spring Attack (SA). SA was formerly worth the requirement of taking this fairly useless feat because of 2 reasons:

1) Ranger tempest I - was a full on increase in attack speed, also was a +2 AC bonus that would stack with a shield clicky/wand. Now the number of builds out there with 6 levels of ranger has decreased significantly. Six levels of Barb is the new poster child for dps. The limited +10% chance to proc an off-hand attack isn't as powerful as the former speed increase. And the AC is now typed as a shield bonus (non-stacking). So why not remove one of the prerequisite feats (there is no other enhancement line out there that requires 3 feats for it's 1st tier).

2) Spring attack and the abuse of "twitch" fighting - People may argue that SA was worth taking 2 prereq feat as it gave a +4 to hit while moving... and people used to be moving all the time. But with the dearth of movement while attacking these days (due to losing glancing blows and the changes to attack animations) and the insane to-hit bonuses out there... SA is no longer worth spending 2 more feats to get it. Especially since the +1 AC from dodge is only useful for fully twinked high end AC builds.

My recommendation is that Mobility be removed from the game, or at least removed from the sequence (Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack). That way any folks that really want a +4 AC while tumbling can take it. But most others can skip a fairly weak feat and just have 2 prereqs for their Tempest I or that +4 to hit when attacking those fleeing mobs (**** you fearsome armor!).

Just my $.02... feel free to flame away!

[h4x0r1f1c]

Not going to flame you but I will say this:

If we got rid of everything dumb in the game (not saying this feat is) then we'd have nothing but good choices to choose from. If we have nothing but good choices to choose from less people will be gimp. If less people are gimp there is less variety. If there is less variety then everyone is the same super builds. If everyone is the same super builds there isn't much point to playing other than the "adventure" of the quests themselves.

[Jesster]

Not going to flame you but I will say this:

If we got rid of everything dumb in the game (not saying this feat is) then we'd have nothing but good choices to choose from. If we have nothing but good choices to choose from less people will be gimp. If less people are gimp there is less variety. If there is less variety then everyone is the same super builds. If everyone is the same super builds there isn't much point to playing other than the "adventure" of the quests themselves.

Sure... so leave it in. Just take it out of the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack sequence. People can still take it if they like, but aren't required to spend multiple feats for abilities that aren't worth 3 feats.

Heck, I've got Mobile Spellcasting on one of my 3 capped healers just for the fun of it (had to take one fairly useless feat to get that... after all what use is Combat Casting when you have Quicken). And while fully willing to waste one feat on it, wasting two feats just gets a bit obscene.

Again, just my opinion.

[NaturalHazard]

Hmmmmm a free feat slot opened for tempests would be nice , but lol it will never happen.

[Homestarfan]

As much as I hate changing PnP stuff, DDO has changed skills that did not translate well to live action in the past. Mobility didn't translate well, maybe it deserves a revision. Not a removal tho.

[AtiumDrag]

I say it gives a +X to AC while moving.

[Huty-Shadowrunner]

Pre-reqs usually suck, that is why they are pre-reqs. They make you pay for getting something uber ( or at least fairly good and usefull ) if this was not the case, people would be way overpowered.

[Mr_Ed7]

I dunna know...


I use the flair skill of "tumbling" on many of my characters and I am aware of the small tumbling bonus to the AC you get from mobility so I get the mobility. The Dodge of course I need, which is a +1 AC, but yes mostly a useless feat.

I see Sping Attack & Shot on the Run as useful feats because of the lack of penalty to attacking when moving. I don't fully understand why these feats should be considered useless.

[Gorbadoc]

Mobility should do something useful. How about, +5% run speed, stacks with everything?

Pre-reqs usually suck, that is why they are pre-reqs. They make you pay for getting something uber ( or at least fairly good and usefull ) if this was not the case, people would be way overpowered.

Meh. I maintain that, if an ability is worth several prerequisites, then its benefits should be spread across those prerequisites. For example, Kensai3 gives some fantastic benefits, but most of its prerequisites are also good in their own right. That's why it's worth it to some people to make a hybrid Kensai1 or Kensai2 plus some other class.

[Aeolwind]

Make Mobility useful by adding attacks of opportunity to anything moving in combat like it should be lol.

A Hobgoblin trying to move past the fighter to get to the caster should get ripped...3 AOO's with two of them being flanking? Yes, please.

Mobility would negate that & fighters would potentially take it as damage mitigation for when they jump over that same hob to get to his healer.

[MartinusWyllt]

... If less people are gimp there is less variety. If there is less variety then everyone is the same super builds. If everyone is the same super builds there isn't much point to playing other than the "adventure" of the quests themselves.

That's almost a good explanation of why variation is both good and necessarily in the face of natural selection. All you're missing is how nerfs/updates would gimp the super builds, leaving them to be selected against and with no variation to select for a new "super build" you'll be left with a population of gimps.

[AtiumDrag]

Make Mobility useful by adding attacks of opportunity to anything moving in combat like it should be lol.

A Hobgoblin trying to move past the fighter to get to the caster should get ripped...3 AOO's with two of them being flanking? Yes, please.

Mobility would negate that & fighters would potentially take it as damage mitigation for when they jump over that same hob to get to his healer.

/sign

[Emili]

I dunna know...


I use the flair skill of "tumbling" on many of my characters and I am aware of the small tumbling bonus to the AC you get from mobility so I get the mobility. The Dodge of course I need, which is a +1 AC, but yes mostly a useless feat.

I see Sping Attack & Shot on the Run as useful feats because of the lack of penalty to attacking when moving. I don't fully understand why these feats should be considered useless.

What it is in DnD

Mobility
Prerequisites
Dex 13, Dodge.

Benefit
You get a +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity caused when you move out of or within a threatened area. A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.

Dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most types of bonuses.

Should translate to either negating any + to-hit the mob may get for flanking you or a + dodge bonus while you are moving - not just tumbling. You see the marraige of dodge/mobility/spring attack in PnP was designed to be a ac/# attack combination spread in three feats. In this light all they need to do is make mobility applicable whenever attack sequence is broken by movement - not just tumbling.

[Irinis]

Not going to flame you but I will say this:

If we got rid of everything dumb in the game (not saying this feat is) then we'd have nothing but good choices to choose from. If we have nothing but good choices to choose from less people will be gimp. If less people are gimp there is less variety. If there is less variety then everyone is the same super builds. If everyone is the same super builds there isn't much point to playing other than the "adventure" of the quests themselves.

Wait, wait... you're saying that if less people are gimp then you can pwn more people in PVP right?

[sephiroth1084]

I'd rather see Mobility changes to be worth taking than have it erased.

[NaturalHazard]

What it is in DnD

Should translate to either negating any + to-hit the mob may get for flanking you or a + dodge bonus while you are moving - not just tumbling. You see the marraige of dodge/mobility/spring attack in PnP was designed to be a ac/# attack combination spread in three feats. In this light all they need to do is make mobility applicable whenever attack sequence is broken by movement - not just tumbling.

but this will just give the kiters even more excuses. Stop kiting!!!! But moving increases my ac!!!!!

Jokes

[redoubt]

I'll go along with removing mobility from spring attack and tempest.

Spring attack can just require dodge. Or you could make it require one or the other and make mobility useful. Then people could choose which one they wanted or take both.

Tempest is nice, but the TWF nerf hurt. Dropping a feat (mobility) from the prereq's would be helpful.

Do any of the other PRE require 3 feats? Much less three feats that are considered mostly useless?