Earthgrab Greensteel useful for FvS in epic?

[aristarchus1000]

I'm mostly concerned about using them in epics, because I think I'm going to use Lit2 for almost everything else. I have a WF pure FvS (Sirgog's Soul Survivor build), but I'm sure it applies to others. I have a dreamspitter, which works great if there are other people in the party using Dreamspitters, but I sometimes feel like I'm lowering the max hitpoints after the damage has been done.

On the flip side, dreamspitters will make holds last longer, and make the mob more susceptable to repeated stuns and earthgrabs from other members of the party by lowering their saves.

That said, I wonder if I should contribute more to making monsters auto-crittable.

I'm strength based, so I could stand taking the -4 penalty and still hit trash with power attack off, or after getting some additional gear if I chose to use a greataxe (for x3 multiplier) or I could just go Greatsword which is only x2, but may allow me to keep power attack on, or at least hit more consistently so that Earthgrab goes off more often.

Anyway, I'd appreciate it if anyone has experience in this choice. Earthgrab Greataxe/sword or Dreamspitter?

I know, the eSOS ends all arguments.

[Guilllotine]

Let me make sure i understand your question right. You have the dreamspitter. You plan on making lit II's. You're not sure about making Earthgrab weapon because of what you already have, and im also assuming the ingredient cost. Most arcanes that are casting holds should be specced for it, or have good gear for it, period. Since you're making Lit II (which is fine in epic) I think your overlapping the arcanes' job too much with a heavy price in ingreds. Skip the Earthgrab wep and only craft the Lit II, and use that along with your dreamspitter.

[therobb]

I don't have personal experience with the earthgrab but I'm kind of a tightwad with my shroud ingredients so I'd rather not spend them on weapons I'm not proficient with.

Another alternative would be to get Rahl's Might. It's relatively easy to get (bound to account), you're proficient with q-staves, and it has a x3 crit modifier. A +5 improved destruction weapon comes in handy in epic anyway.

If the mobs are outlasting the mass holds, I'll use a Dreamspitter and tag each mob a few times to help lock them down. If they're dying quickly enough, I'll swap between Rahl's Might and my Min II greatsword (no Lit II or eSoS yet ).

[aristarchus1000]

To clarify, I already have a lit2 greatsword, I have multiple Rahl's mights (I keep the bleeding one on this character), I have a dreamspitter (2 actually). I have enough ingredients such that an single shard Earthgrab Greatsword isn't a big deal from a cost point of view, but I would rather not waste the 2 scales if I'll never use it.

I just feel like I'm not contributing very much to the auto-crit/stunning aspect of epics, and I was wondering if it would be worthwhile to grab one.

If anyone has actually built one for their favored soul and found it useful (situations where they chose to use that over a Lit2, a Rahl's, or a Dreamspitter), I'd like to get some feedback.

[moops]

In order for Earthgrab to work, you have to get hit. So if you are running with good arcanes who are throwing excellent CC, you are not going to get hit much--or at least enough for it to proc that often. My Kensai has Earthgrab and sometimes it never goes off in an Epic Quest/Epic Chrono, rarely will it go off more than a couple times. it seems to come in most handy when the caster is AFK

Really the Lit 2 GS should be enough, and then work on getting an EPIC SOS for variety--it won't cost much as you can farm for the scroll being an FVS, and youll make money while trying to get the shard and seal, and EPIC Devil Assault drops some great alignment stuff for it, and youll also make money in this quest.

Also, your earthgrab does not need to be on a weapon. I made a cloak, and a helm for a couple dif alts.

[aristarchus1000]

Earthgrab weapons trigger when you hit the mob. Earthgrab GUARD from an accessory occurs on hit.

The only situation I can think of is when an Arcane is pulling aggro with firewalls, or when they are using Dancing balls to save mana (in something like Epic Devil Assault or Epic Last Stand), leaving the stunning/earthgrab holds to the melees.

I guess the answer is "get better arcanes," but in reading the Epic Devil Assault tactics thread, it seems that having Melee handle the Earthgrab/stunning rather than relying on the arcanes is not a bad strategy.

I guess I'll see. I've been fine with dreamspitter and Lit2 GS so far, but some of my party-mates have been exceptionally well geared.

[moops]

Earthgrab weapons trigger when you hit the mob. Earthgrab GUARD from an accessory occurs on hit.

The only situation I can think of is when an Arcane is pulling aggro with firewalls, or when they are using Dancing balls to save mana (in something like Epic Devil Assault or Epic Last Stand), leaving the stunning/earthgrab holds to the melees.

I guess the answer is "get better arcanes," but in reading the Epic Devil Assault tactics thread, it seems that having Melee handle the Earthgrab/stunning rather than relying on the arcanes is not a bad strategy.

I guess I'll see. I've been fine with dreamspitter and Lit2 GS so far, but some of my party-mates have been exceptionally well geared.

Ah yeah I forgot about that, but still--if your mobs are already mass held--it just doesnt seem worth it--unless you solo alot--or have the ingreds.

[Steveohio]

As a dirty ***** multiclass FVS. I use, and LOVE my 2x earthgrab dwarven axes. They are always on during trash/epic quests, unless I have to break DR, then I swap out to min2/metalline pure good

[aristarchus1000]

Ah yeah I forgot about that, but still--if your mobs are already mass held--it just doesnt seem worth it--unless you solo alot--or have the ingreds.

Well, of course. Earthgrab is only useful if the mobs are NOT mass held.

Anyway, the examples above are where mobs can't aren't guaranteed to be held. Of course, if mobs are guaranteed to be held then everything is easy.

I'll probably hold off until I have more experience with epic Devil Assault and last stand and see if the strategies become worthwhile.

[sirgog]

I've considered making an Earthgrab greatsword.

Against non-held trash it's 15.5 damage per swing less than a Lit 2 (assuming no resistances that are relevant - 12 from the 2% chance to proc a 600 damage Lightning Strike, and 3.5 from the difference between Acid and Holy). Difference drops to 8.5 on the small minority of mobs that are immune to Holy damage (e.g. Scorpions in Claw of Vulkoor).

Earthgrab procs 5% of the time and allows a DC 35 reflex save to negate it. If mobs make this save 40% of the time (a pretty typical amount for epic trash), it's a 3% effective proc rate. If you believe that 4 seconds of autocrits is better than 500 damage (and it pretty much always is), the Earthgrab weapon is ahead.


Edit: I'd make a Greatsword because while other weapons that you are not proficient in will add more to your personal DPS against already held foes, you need to hit to land an Earthgrab hold, and with something like a Greataxe or Heavy Pick you will miss, a lot.

[aristarchus1000]

I've considered making an Earthgrab greatsword.

Against non-held trash it's 15.5 damage per swing less than a Lit 2 (assuming no resistances that are relevant - 12 from the 2% chance to proc a 600 damage Lightning Strike, and 3.5 from the difference between Acid and Holy). Difference drops to 8.5 on the small minority of mobs that are immune to Holy damage (e.g. Scorpions in Claw of Vulkoor).

Earthgrab procs 5% of the time and allows a DC 35 reflex save to negate it. If mobs make this save 40% of the time (a pretty typical amount for epic trash), it's a 3% effective proc rate. If you believe that 4 seconds of autocrits is better than 500 damage (and it pretty much always is), the Earthgrab weapon is ahead.


Edit: I'd make a Greatsword because while other weapons that you are not proficient in will add more to your personal DPS against already held foes, you need to hit to land an Earthgrab hold, and with something like a Greataxe or Heavy Pick you will miss, a lot.

Thanks for the reply and the analysis.

I just ran an epic OoB without a stunner or earthgrabber, and it was a little painful how long the dps took. I'm not sure how much better it would have been with just one person with a single Earthgrab weapon, but I do think it would have helped. I'll certainly be looking into making an Earthgrab Greatsword again.

[aristarchus1000]

As a dirty ***** multiclass FVS. I use, and LOVE my 2x earthgrab dwarven axes. They are always on during trash/epic quests, unless I have to break DR, then I swap out to min2/metalline pure good

Thanks for this feedback. Those with TWF certainly will see more dramatic effect. I think overall an Earthgrab weapon is better if you are not seeing 100% held/stunned mobs (which in some epics you see, in others you don't depending on the mana requirements of the arcane), and generally better than a Lit2 for epic. Whether it is worth the 2 large scales is up to the person and situation.

When mobs are almost 100% held/stunned/earthgrabbed by others, I'll probably be using my Dreamspitter.