Bard- Superheals and CC

[AltheaSteelrain]

You mention that i wouldnt be able to measure up because i dont even have the quicken, maximise, and empower feats.

I do not understand what any of these would bring to my build.

They're the bare minimum feats to get if you plan to heal btw.

Quicken- Why do i need to heal faster, its already fairly quick and more than efficient would just blow more SP for no good reason. If spell A is on cooldown and i need another quick heal, i just use Spell B.

So you can rotate heals faster? So you wont fail healing when you get hit? Because even w/ max con you'll get spell failure on a failed concentration check? So you can land more CC faster?

Maximise- My damage spells do double damage? umm great what damaging spells do i cast? sound burst... for the stun not the dmg :P More wasted SP imo.

Incase you didn't know, Maximize also affects all healing spells excluding heal/mass heal/greater resto

Empower- According to tooltip another dmg booster i think it may boost healing aswell but im not too sure. either way i have empower healing so why bother More wasted SP

Because its much more efficient to emp heal + maximize + ardor/pot + enhancements a cure light wounds spell than cycle 3 different kinds of heal on a single target?

answers in purple.

[kazeikan]

Why are u guys bothering? It's obvious from his build and the way he takes advice that he would not be suited for endgame content in whichever server hes on with whatever toon he may be on. Plz link your server and your toon names so we can know who this is. That way you can avoid us "con mongers" and we can avoid u "squishy". You can continue playin however you like and we can do the same without suffering your presence. All in all thks you for the highly amusing thread.

[binderclip]

You mention that i wouldnt be able to measure up because i dont even have the quicken, maximise, and empower feats.

I do not understand what any of these would bring to my build.

Quicken- Why do i need to heal faster, its already fairly quick and more than efficient would just blow more SP for no good reason. If spell A is on cooldown and i need another quick heal, i just use Spell B.

Maximise- My damage spells do double damage? umm great what damaging spells do i cast? sound burst... for the stun not the dmg :P More wasted SP imo.

Empower- According to tooltip another dmg booster i think it may boost healing aswell but im not too sure. either way i have empower healing so why bother More wasted SP

quicken is usually for the benefit of being 'un-interruptible". which is often desired in chaotic situations where aoe are being throw around. also, it is due to the fact that bard has only 2 mass cures (light and mod), instead of 4+ on a cleric.

Max & empower, not saying u need both, just should consider at least 1 of them. they are for situations where a bigger heal is needed. when u need to fill a group of 5 barb/fighter from less than half hp to full asap.... and doesnt matter how much sp u use. thats the kind of situation where u would hate urself for not having them.

[AltheaSteelrain]

Why are u guys bothering? It's obvious from his build and the way he takes advice that he would not be suited for endgame content in whichever server hes on with whatever toon he may be on. Plz link your server and your toon names so we can know who this is. That way you can avoid us "con mongers" and we can avoid u "squishy". You can continue playin however you like and we can do the same without suffering your presence. All in all thks you for the highly amusing thread.

Lets give him a chance pweash?

If he is on Thelanis, I'd gladly let him in and see who's more gimpier >

I like gimp builds, I gravitate on such nonsense out of sheer fun XD

[CSFurious]

OP, i do not even know why you respond to any criticisms in this thread because you are a DDO genius

[locus]

Look, I know you guys are all "10 con, gasp, fail, etc" but you're missing the lack of Feat: Toughness on the build as well. And yeah, I don't know exactly where the 17 dex (very high starting! that's a lot of build points) is going without any strength. Your will saves will likely be fairly poor too, and yeah I don't know. Held low con bard = no super heals. How far (level wise) have you gotten with this build? Also maybe you should roll a ranger, who gets a ton of feats that would help with this kind of build for free (and also gets Diehard, which seems crucial for this build ).

[AltheaSteelrain]

Look, I know you guys are all "10 con, gasp, fail, etc" but you're missing the lack of Feat: Toughness on the build as well. And yeah, I don't know exactly where the 17 dex (very high starting! that's a lot of build points) is going without any strength. Your will saves will likely be fairly poor too, and yeah I don't know. Held low con bard = no super heals. How far (level wise) have you gotten with this build? Also maybe you should roll a ranger, who gets a ton of feats that would help with this kind of build for free (and also gets Diehard, which seems crucial for this build ).

the 10 con just screams "it doesn't matter if I dont take toughness feat"

[Aashrym]

You mention that i wouldnt be able to measure up because i dont even have the quicken, maximise, and empower feats.

I do not understand what any of these would bring to my build.

Quicken- Why do i need to heal faster, its already fairly quick and more than efficient would just blow more SP for no good reason. If spell A is on cooldown and i need another quick heal, i just use Spell B.

Maximise- My damage spells do double damage? umm great what damaging spells do i cast? sound burst... for the stun not the dmg :P More wasted SP imo.

Empower- According to tooltip another dmg booster i think it may boost healing aswell but im not too sure. either way i have empower healing so why bother More wasted SP

Quicken is handy and I ran without it for quite a while but I have it now. I missed a couple important concentration checks in my time.

Maximize increases the healing from your healing spells and damage spells.

Empower spell would be my last choice over maximize or empower healing for just healing. I use Maximize and empower spell now so I can play with the damage from greater shout but it's not as optimal for healing due to the higher SP cost.

I haven't taken a close look at your actual enhancements yet. Lack of STR and CON on a build with melee feat is just counter productive to either melee or casting. And with the low str you are pretty susceptible to a quick STR drop to nonproductive.

[Exodinus]

Ah i see what your saying with the maximise or empower, According to tooltip it only effected Damage Dealing spells wich would be heavily useless for my build.

On that note! knowing that it would also uber my heals i would definatly take atleast one of them as for quicken id prolly leave that one out. i have a fairly high concentration save ive only seen it fail 3 or so times in this toons life and rather than being able to cast faster, i just have different/heals CC i cycle through without any problems.

having 50% greater heals though i cant complain! wich do you suggest to go with Maximise or Empower?

I agree with you all utmost that my melee DPS is minimal if any at all so ill probably swap out the melee feats for one of the above and perhaps more spellpen/spellfocus for CC?

[Aashrym]

What are good starting stats for a spellsinger II ?

Str 14
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 18

Depending on race and build points, and tomes. This is pretty standard for a lot of spell singers. I started with 14 con and put the build points into Int for skill points but those skills points aren't critical.

I also depends on what you want to do with your spell singer. Check out Irinis' thread on build options. It's handy.

[AltheaSteelrain]

Ah i see what your saying with the maximise or empower, According to tooltip it only effected Damage Dealing spells wich would be heavily useless for my build.

Healing spells are also damage-type spells when used against undead. Heal/Mass heal though is reverse and works like harm and vise versa against undead/living.

On that note! knowing that it would also uber my heals i would definatly take atleast one of them as for quicken id prolly leave that one out. i have a fairly high concentration save ive only seen it fail 3 or so times in this toons life and rather than being able to cast faster, i just have different/heals CC i cycle through without any problems.

If you plan to save someone's butt, take quicken. It helps. Bonus points if you get aggroed and try to heal yourself.

having 50% greater heals though i cant complain! wich do you suggest to go with Maximise or Empower?

I prefer Maximize since its double the damage, but empower is more sp friendly.

Either is good. Take both if you can spare and play around the toggles.

Answers in purple.

[Exodinus]

If i where to take all Empower Healing, Maximise, Empower and toggled them all, do all 3 stack? Not saying this would be viable SP wise but thems be some big heals :P

[bartosy]

16 con - nice !

14 con - wish i had 16 con.

12 con - i wonder why i die so much...

10 con - Borderline suicidal

8 con - I spend most of my online ddo time as a soulstone.

[kazeikan]

Let's post some interesting scenario here on the board to try to reason with this guy one more time. What if say you were the only bard in an epic dragon (heaven forbid one i'm in). You have all the buffs, fire shield, fire resis, pro fire, and the rest blah blahs and u lead of to fascinate base 1.

You will be confined to a small island with fire ellys lackin evasion, I would like to see you survive the chain lightning and the fireballs from the ellys. Another scenario is epic chronoscope. The devil mobs in there teleport and switch
aggro constantly.

The have a pattern of teleporting to the player furthest away from the melees usually the healers. You will not survive hits from them and as you're spamming heal scrolls, cure crit, med, lights you will be wasting youre sp and resources just keepin your gimp ass alive. You will have no time to cc, heal others, or show off your awesome dps.

Eventually you will be overwhelmed. And judging by your lack of hp and quicken and enough con to pass a concentration check that will be a matter of 2 seconds once a devil spots his juicy prey (you).

Don't say your dex is gonna save you cuz it isn't. Dex based monks rogues still get hurt in battle and they have evasion, epic dr, ac to back it up while you have a temp stoneskin, slow and gimpy heals.

Lastly but not least. Havin enough hp where u can heal urself to full with one scroll is nice, but what happens when mobs deal more damage than ur hp in one blow? Don't say anymore **** about I'm not gonna get hit. You have to be in a certain range to fascinate, otto irresis, charm, heal and in that range you will be hit by stray arrows, chain lighting and other aoe effect spells.

[hecate355]

Ah i see what your saying with the maximise or empower, According to tooltip it only effected Damage Dealing spells wich would be heavily useless for my build.

On that note! knowing that it would also uber my heals i would definatly take atleast one of them as for quicken id prolly leave that one out. i have a fairly high concentration save ive only seen it fail 3 or so times in this toons life and rather than being able to cast faster, i just have different/heals CC i cycle through without any problems.

having 50% greater heals though i cant complain! wich do you suggest to go with Maximise or Empower?

I agree with you all utmost that my melee DPS is minimal if any at all so ill probably swap out the melee feats for one of the above and perhaps more spellpen/spellfocus for CC?

if you are going to take just one of those 2, take maximize imo. it has biggest impact

[phalaeo]

Listen please people.

WHEN IM RUNNING A QUEST WITH A PARTY I WILL NOT BE MELEEING A GODANG THING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.


SUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALS SUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALS SUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALS SUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALS SUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALS SUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSVSUPERHEAL SSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALSSUPERHEAL SSUPERHEALSSUPERHEALS

SUPERHEALS SUPERHEALS SUPERHEALS SUPERHEALS SUPERHEALS SUPERHEALS SUPERHEALS SUPERHEALS SUPERHEALS

are we on the same page now?

-1 for spamming all caps and for generally being rude.

Look- my CLERIC (see what I did there?) has Evasion, full Heals off an SP bar that hit me for 500ish, Auras, Bursts, Unyielding Soveriegnty, and no fail scroll healing and I won't go into an Epic with less than 400HP. She is sitting now at 440 unraged with just gear and has an AC over 60 (as long as we're bringing up AC). She has perma-Blur from the Mabar cloak and 9 clicky applications of Stoneskin between shrines.

She's pretty steely and she still gets hit and gets hit hard in Epics and Elite endgame content.

[EKKM]

wow... just wow. OK quicken will make it so when you get hit you won't fail a concentration check. Maximize and empower will also increase your cure spells. Empower healing only works on the heal spell, which you dont have and empower healing does not work on scrolls either. Welcome to DDO.

Empower healing works on all "cure" and "heal" spells. Welcome to DDO

If i where to take all Empower Healing, Maximise, Empower and toggled them all, do all 3 stack? Not saying this would be viable SP wise but thems be some big heals :P

One of empower heal and empower will stack with maximize. These also stack with the highest of potency/devotion/ardor and also with your healing enhancements.

I'm also going to echo a lot of people here and suggest you drop dex to 15 and put those points into CON as well as picking up the toughness feat. My 400 HP cleric get down to under 100 hp and dies sometimes on epics despite staying back from the action and a I guarantee that he is a better, faster healer than you. He is also displaced and stoneskinned etc. I will admit that his reflex save is as low as you can get however.

[Aashrym]

If i where to take all Empower Healing, Maximise, Empower and toggled them all, do all 3 stack? Not saying this would be viable SP wise but thems be some big heals :P

They all stack, they make big numbers, and they will suck down SP fast. Mass cure moderate is base 35 and you would be adding 25+15+10. 85 SP mass cure mod will go thru SP fairly fast. All you need to do is stay ahead of the timers and keep ahead of the damage the party is taking.

Maximize does this pretty well, and adding empower healing helps if you are having issues. The bigger numbers look pretty but generally burn SP fast and are unnecessary. Toggling thru mass cure mod, mass cure light, and cure crit with heal and reconstruct scrolls hotbarred works well enough.

Edit: I thought empower healing and empower spell did stack. I'm going to do some changes and test them again after work.

[AylinIsAwesome]

You all seem to be complaining about my Con, but not taking into account that 10Con is just the base.. while buffed + my con item i have 20 or more... and if i was running epics i dont think i would be soloing and or meleeing. as it says in the title SUPERHEAL + CC.

The melee aspect, is only for soloing or when u have a great party that you dont need to heal every 10 seconds You can throw out a hold monster, melee the **** out of it and CON doesnt matter when a monster cant move.

That being said once again SUPERHEAL+ CC when running epics, ill be invised and healing the party in the event that i have monsters attacking me and my low hp/con comes into play i would have to blame another member of the party EI the tank.

As it currently stands at level 18... the only time i take dmg is from AOE attacks. wich are rare because i usually stand furtherback healing-CCing not running up meleeing like a shmuck.

So last and final time- SUPERHEAL+CC please dont bash the build for something its not trying to be :P

Please tell me you don't play on my server.

The advice that you should be starting with 14 or 16 CON already assumes that you'll have a +2 Tome, a +6/7 item and a +2/3 exceptional item eventually. Ending with 20 CON is just laughable.

[Claransa]

Str 14
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 18

Depending on race and build points, and tomes. This is pretty standard for a lot of spell singers. I started with 14 con and put the build points into Int for skill points but those skills points aren't critical.

I also depends on what you want to do with your spell singer. Check out Irinis' thread on build options. It's handy.

now that i'm at my computer i can see i started with

STR 13
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 17

I was thinking i might lesser reincarnate to respec but looking at the numbers I think i'll just look for some +3 tomes for STR, CON and CHA. Race: human, 32 pt build, with +2 supreme tome used at L7

Thanks again