Dr. Chant 2.0 - intimitank warchanter

[Bardicus]

The idea is to offer a bard who can sword & board intimitank when needed but also provide songs and somewhat decent dps in content that it's not. Originally I had come to the conclusion that WCII/SDI would be ideal for shield blocking DR and more intimidate. However as I've thought over this concept I've come to a few different conclusions:

1) 8 shield blocking DR isn't going to make or break a build that will have DR 45/- otherwise
2) I can afford to lose a few points of intimidate
3) When it's time to turtle guard dps would be an added benefit
4) Wouldn't it be nice if I could also fill the role of healer in 6-man epic runs

As such I've come to the following:

Chantforged
Warforged
16 Bard / 4 Fighter

36pt Build

Str 17 + 5 levels + 6 item + 1 fighter enh + 3 tome + 2 exceptional + 2 rage = 36 sustained
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 9
Wis 6
Cha 16 + 3 bard enh + 3 tome + 6 item + 2 exc = 30 cha --> +10 modifier

Levels: 1 Bard, 2-3 Fighter, 4-9 Bard, 10-11 Fighter, 12-20 Bard

Feats:
1) Toughness
2) WF: Slash (Fighter Bonus)
3) Extend, PA (Fighter Bonus)
6) Empower Healing
9) SF: Intim
11) iCrit: Slash (Fighter Bonus)
12) Bullheaded
15) Maximize
18) Quicken

Intimidate DC:
23 Ranks
15 Item
6 Shroud
4 Warchanter II
3 Skill Focus: Intimidate
2 Bullheaded
2 Head of Good Fortune
2 Fighter Intimidate
4 Greater Heroism
1 Focusing Chant
3 House D Pot
10 Cha Mod
-------------------------
75 Intimidate Self - Easily Obtainable

2 Monk
1 Airship Cha
1 Airship Skills
-------------------------
79 Intimidate Buffed

5 Epic Gloves of the Claw
2 Coin Lords Favor
-------------------------
86 Intimidate Buffed with Grind


Sources of Damage Reduction:
Docent of Defiance DR 20/-
Shield Blocking = 15 (Levik's) + 10 ([BAB/2]+2) = 25

DR 25/- when blocking, DR 45/- during DoD proc

HP
96 Bard
40 Fighter
20 Heroic Durability
21 Toughness Feat
20 Fighter Toughness
40 Racial Toughness
10 Argo Favor
20 Minos
45 Shroud
30 GFL
20 Rage
10 WC II
180 Con (16 + 6 item + 2 tome + 2 racial + 2 exc = 28)
-------------------------
552hp

Tanking
Helm: Minos Legens
Eyes: Green Steel - Wizadry VI +1 cha skills, Lesser Good Guard, Greater Lightning Guard - Lightning Strike Guard
Neck: Scourge Choker
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune
Cloak: Green Steel - Blindness/Disease Immunity, +50sp +2cha skills, +100sp +3 cha skills - Conc-op
Docent: Docent of Defiance
Wrist: Green Steel - +10hp, +15hp, +25hp - Disintegration Guard
Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw - +5 intim, 30% healing amp
Ring 1: Intimidate +15 ring
Ring 2: Warchanter's Band +6cha +2exc cha
Belt: Knost's Belt +6 con gfl
Primary: Green Steel 1hnd - Healing Amp & Conc-Op
Secondary: Levik's Defender
Boots: Madstone Boots

DPS/Healing
Helm: Minos Legens
Eyes: Tharne's
Neck: Torc
Trinket: Bloodstone
Cloak: Green Steel - Blindness/Disease Immunity, +50sp +2cha skills, +100sp +3 cha skills - Conc-op
Docent: Dragontouched - Resistance +5 / Efficient Empower Healing / Greater Potency VII
Wrist: Green Steel - +10hp, +15hp, +25hp - Disintegration Guard
Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw
Ring 1: Encrusted Ring
Ring 2: Warchanter's Ring
Belt: Knost's Belt
Primary: Min 2/ Epic SoS / Epic Antique Greataxe / Dreamspitter
Boots: Striders / Firestorm / etc


This is where I'm at for the time being. The gear is just my initial plan for what I feel is an obtainable gear set. However I'm still not certain on the feats. I'd like to be able to fill the role of healer in epic quests but perhaps I don't need Maximize, Empower Healing, and Quicken. If I drop any of those feats what should I pick up? I see these as options:

Bard PL - +1 intimidate
Paladin PL - +3 to-hit and +3 damage
Portions of the THF chain

The last option I've considered is dropping Empower Healing, Quicken, and iCrit as well as a cha bracket and picking up the TWF chain and then using min2 heavy picks.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[maddmatt70]

You lost me here. I liked the old Bardicus 14 bard 6 fighter build this build just sounds like you are trying to do too much. 8 dr is quite a bit I was assuming you were planning to tank raids with this character now I am skeptical you can pull it off. Yes I am a huge fan of healing bards on 6 man epics assuming the bard takes the place of a cleric/fvs.

[Bardicus]

Would it be possible to heal epics with only 14 bard levels? I'm assuming the loss of Mass Cure Mod kills that dream. But if it's possible to heal epics without it would you be in favor of dropping THF and WS: Slash on the original build to pickup Maximize and Quicken or Empower Heal?

If that's not feasible, what about dropping Empower Heal and Quicken in the 16/4 for the two shield mastery feats to pick back up DR 6/- while still having Maximized Cure Mass Mod?

[maddmatt70]

Would it be possible to heal epics with only 14 bard levels? I'm assuming the loss of Mass Cure Mod kills that dream. But if it's possible to heal epics without it would you be in favor of dropping THF and WS: Slash on the original build to pickup Maximize and Quicken or Empower Heal?

If that's not feasible, what about dropping Empower Heal and Quicken in the 16/4 for the two shield mastery feats to pick back up DR 6/- while still having Maximized Cure Mass Mod?

It is not impossible to heal epics with just mass cure lt, heal scrolls and cure critical, but it definitely would be harder then if you had mass cure mod. Your spell point pool with either 14 bard or 16 bard levels is fairly abyssmal I think (what is your total spell points?) so that is problematic as well and implies mana pot and other resource usage.

A question for me is what is it you want to do in 6 person epics? Are you planning to intimidate in 6 person epics and then heal yourself without a healer? Obviously in that scenario having quicken becomes more necessary. Do you plan to melee with healing involved as well, but as a primary healer and then on the significant red names step back and heal? In that situation/style quicken is not necessary. My favorite places for quicken on my melee/healing bard is actually the Tower raid and the Shroud raid because I can switch between melee and healing more fluidly and with the aoe damage involved have no fear of concentration breaks, but in 6 person epics there is not the same degree of aoe damage involved other then significant red names.

What do you give up by the loss of the two fighter levels exactly? Perhaps you should throw up a side by side comparison..

[Bardicus]

I've gone through more sheets of paper working out the possible build splits than I'd like to admit. But here are my basic thoughts:

1) You need Fighter 4 to unlock Improved Intim II and Fighter Toughness II
2) You then have to decide if you want level 6 spells (OID, Mass Cure Mod)

A) If you want level 6 spells you have to take 16 Bard
B) If you don't take level 6 spells you can go

i) 14/6 Stalwart Defender I (2 intim, 2 blocking DR, 1 str enhancement, 4hp)
ii) 15/4/1wiz (Metamagic feat + Inspire Heroics)
iii) 14/4/2wiz (Metamagic feat + Improved Maximize and/or Improved Quicken)

What I'm hoping to wind up with is a character that is an effective intimitank when needed and yet still a welcome addition to an epic party. If most mobs are going to be held in epic I felt it would be nice to have an autocrit dps option of dual heavy picks or be able to fill the healer slot and bash with a Dreamspitter when stuff is held.

If intimidating the trash in 6-man epics and turtling up is viable until everything is held having quicken would be nice.

SP differential isn't too big of a factor for me. The difference between 14 and 16 is about one Maximized Cure Mass Mod and from 16 to 20 it's another two Maximized CMM.

BTW - A big thanks for taking the time to help me think through all this and granting perspective of bards in epic that I do not have!

[maddmatt70]

I've gone through more sheets of paper working out the possible build splits than I'd like to admit. But here are my basic thoughts:

1) You need Fighter 4 to unlock Improved Intim II and Fighter Toughness II
2) You then have to decide if you want level 6 spells (OID, Mass Cure Mod)

A) If you want level 6 spells you have to take 16 Bard
B) If you don't take level 6 spells you can go

i) 14/6 Stalwart Defender I (2 intim, 2 blocking DR, 1 str enhancement, 4hp)
ii) 15/4/1wiz (Metamagic feat + Inspire Heroics)
iii) 14/4/2wiz (Metamagic feat + Improved Maximize and/or Improved Quicken)

What I'm hoping to wind up with is a character that is an effective intimitank when needed and yet still a welcome addition to an epic party. If most mobs are going to be held in epic I felt it would be nice to have an autocrit dps option of dual heavy picks or be able to fill the healer slot and bash with a Dreamspitter when stuff is held.

If intimidating the trash in 6-man epics and turtling up is viable until everything is held having quicken would be nice.

SP differential isn't too big of a factor for me. The difference between 14 and 16 is about one Maximized Cure Mass Mod and from 16 to 20 it's another two Maximized CMM.

BTW - A big thanks for taking the time to help me think through all this and granting perspective of bards in epic that I do not have!

O.k. in regards to inti-tanking I am not a personal fan, but it seems to me it has the most value in raids. I do not believe in turtling on 6 mans other then perhaps an end boss to make life easier. Other then occasionally controlling some random mobs if you are going to invest in shield blocking and inti you might as well make sure you can do the job on the raids that matter/where it can make an impact. Right now that would likely be the Tower Raid and Epic DQ2 and perhaps in a few places in Epic Chronosphere like the teleporting Named Orthon on phase 2. Will your intimidate total be enough for those places? Will your shield blocking dr be sufficient? If it is adequate with a 16 bard 4 fighter and you want to try you hand at healing then go for it.

The other side of the coin is healing as a bard is not straightforward as it sounds and you will lose some dps if you do not go with stalwart defender or kensai for that matter as well. As a bard in a 6 person quest it really never pays to be a backup healer it is just wholly inefficient to do so keep that in mind whatever you do. If you find yourself using your healing capabilities sololy as a backup healer it is probably in your best interest to go 14 bard 6 fighter.

You can always lesser reincarnate if you should change your mind.

Do not do the wizard splashes that will just weaken your build go with fighter levels or bard levels.

[ninjaeli]

AC breakdown?

and can the AC song go on the person casting it or only others?

[Lewcipher]

AC is meaningless on this build, hence the DR.

You can only use the AC song on others.

Have a similar build, but went 16/2/2rog. So not as high on the intimidate, but works as a decent back up for trash. May have to rethink and TR him.

[voodoogroves]

You know, I did the same thing a while back.

I had a few characters at cap and had been raiding lots of HoX and VoD. It seemed to me that the timmy was nearly always required. I started looking at different options and WC2 with the intim bonus seemed a nice fit. I've since then changed my thinking based on some recent experiences.

- Anyone can work on a decent intim score and play the part of timmy if required; turtling is not necessarily hard-linked
- Turtling can be useful on a number of occasions
- If you're turtling, you're not swinging


I see the value in the intimitank, I really do. I can make a character have decent in intimidate in a variety of classes.

So, you can be a useful intimitank ... some of the time.

The question I keep coming back to is "Did I gimp my build the rest of the time?"


Bards are hard for me.

- I will only at this point dip / MC a bard that is a Warchanter, but doing so with the full knowledge that OID won't land.
- A dip will only ever be 2 or 4 levels, because AC song, when necessary ... is just that ... necessary

That, to me, eliminates the 14/6 split ... and puts the turtle in most cases out of the running. I'd still maybe build for intimidating, but I'd only use it rarely and likely not as a bard turtle. To do so hurts the other bard-i-ness of the build.

[BoBoDaClown]

AC is meaningless on this build, hence the DR.

You can only use the AC song on others.

Have a similar build, but went 16/2/2rog. So not as high on the intimidate, but works as a decent back up for trash. May have to rethink and TR him.

You can use it on yourself.