Am I doing it wrong? Healing Shroud

[makmakkabab]

Hello experts of Eberron, I am new to the shroud and been there maybe 4 times. I'm playing a 17/2/1 cleric monk rogue build. On my last run there, there was an incident where everybody got killed. naturally, I was the one they blamed. now I come to you for advice. We were at part 4 (I think), we were the red fiend thingy with the occasional blades flying at us. we were 2 clerics, he was spamming mass heals, and I was at the boss feet spamming radiant bursts. now, I thought it was a good tactics as i have done it before with no deaths, and also I'm not so used to the mass heals, they just take forever to go off (with quicken). I didn't have any problem being there with the melee's as with evasion, good reflex saves and relatively high AC, I wasn't taking to much of a damage. but people started to die, and eventually so did I. so the question is, was it all my fault? are those bursts not a valid way to heal at that particular part? I had all my meta's on - H.empowerment, empower, max, quicken. I also had healing lore item and superior potency 6 item. needless to say, I felt pretty bad after that. any thoughts?

[ToKu]

Hello experts of Eberron, I am new to the shroud and been there maybe 4 times. I'm playing a 17/2/1 cleric monk rogue build. On my last run there, there was an incident where everybody got killed. naturally, I was the one they blamed. now I come to you for advice. We were at part 4 (I think), we were the red fiend thingy with the occasional blades flying at us. we were 2 clerics, he was spamming mass heals, and I was at the boss feet spamming radiant bursts. now, I thought it was a good tactics as i have done it before with no deaths, and also I'm not so used to the mass heals, they just take forever to go off (with quicken). I didn't have any problem being there with the melee's as with evasion, good reflex saves and relatively high AC, I wasn't taking to much of a damage. but people started to die, and eventually so did I. so the question is, was it all my fault? are those bursts not a valid way to heal at that particular part? I had all my meta's on - H.empowerment, empower, max, quicken. I also had healing lore item and superior potency 6 item. needless to say, I felt pretty bad after that. any thoughts?

The bursts are not worth the risk of damage to you. You will be eating meteor swarms and his bouncing agro, all it takes is a bad mix of that to put you out of commission.

You should not need to use any meta's except quicken for mass heal, you can easily avoid the swords and as long as the raid is positioned correctly will not eat any meteor swarms. E.Healing at most though as only a 17 cleric you may burn through mana fast in pugs.

[AussieEngineer]

Why not use your Mass cure Serious, Mass Cure Moderate, and a stack of Mass Cure Serious scrolls non stop to heal, while dancing around the blades?

You don't have to use 'Mass Heal' to heal peoples. It's cast time is way too long for most use, unless you are very practiced at its use (and I find that method doesn't help the low hit point squishy's too much, as they die between casts).

Instead of using your bursts, you may as well use your SP there. What else are you going to use it for?
Oh, and while healing using the Mass Cure x spells, you don't have to have your meta's on. (I never do).
Just cycle between those mass healing options, and you will be delivering continuous healing that will be more than enough. Save your bursts for between 'rounds' if you have to, when everyone groups up (though hopefully there aren't too many rounds).

[ToKu]

Why not use your Mass cure Serious, Mass Cure Moderate, and a stack of Mass Cure Serious scrolls non stop to heal, while dancing around the blades?

You don't have to use 'Mass Heal' to heal peoples. It's cast time is way too long for most use, unless you are very practiced at its use (and I find that method doesn't help the low hit point squishy's too much, as they die between casts).

Instead of using your bursts, you may as well use your SP there. What else are you going to use it for?
Oh, and while healing using the Mass Cure x spells, you don't have to have your meta's on. (I never do).
Just cycle between those mass healing options, and you will be delivering continuous healing that will be more than enough. Save your bursts for between 'rounds' if you have to, when everyone groups up (though hopefully there aren't too many rounds).

Depending on his mana situation, I find doing a continuous mass heal that alternates with the other healers works very well. I save the mass cure serious' and heal for the "oh ****" situations that sometimes happen.

Not much dancing needs to happen either, stay inside until the blades do a loop or 2 then step outside of them and just stand there. You should be FoM and the raid should be preventing any meteor swarms from getting out.

I agree with the saving bursts though, if he goes into a 2nd and 3rd round use burst for the trash to save some SP.

[FuzzyDuck81]

On my battlecleric (cleric 15/pally 2/monk 3, with raid buffs saves are all just into the 40s so I'm usually fine vs. AoEs) I usually fight in the middle - my tactic is to get the aura going (if you can get a crit aura its even better), then alternate FoL & healing Ki, radiant burst & sometimes mass CMW, maybe a mass prot from elements from time to time (dont forget holy aura at the start of the fight too, extra boost to saves is always nice), while the 2nd healer on the sidelines just uses mass Heal, it seems to work fine. In the occasional "oh ****" moments when lots of people fail a save at once or when the barriers are getting close i just ditch the attacks & go into pure healing mode.

[gott_ist_tot]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Weapon_enhancement_summary

Check the table: Magnitude. Superior ardor 6 gives you 75% healing power instead of superior potency's 50%. Each clicky is 3*3=9 minutes, and these are cheap on the AH (clubs, morningstars, maces, daggers, staves...).

I guess auras are ok if they do the work. The moment you see HPs getting too low, you should mix mass cures in, if you haven't started with them or mass heal.

3rd day in a row, 3rd post... please fix the clicky descriptions now, devs! Please!

[szkaradek]

You should have your metamagics maximize, empower healing, empower turned on while burst-healing. Bursts and occasional mass heal is all you need. Just make sure all party members have resist fire.

If the party can not survive from one mass heal to another there's something horribly wrong with your team, and there is not much you can do except constantly spamming quick casting spells: burst, mclw, mclw.
Finally, do not hold healing, waiting for life bars to shrink: game lags quite often.

[moops]

If a whole group dies, there are more problems going on than the healing. . .Now maybe experience healer can adjust to the situation, but the leader and other players also need to as well.

I just use Mass Cure Light and Mass Cure Mod with Empower healing--maybe a Mass cure serious now and then in a pug. If the other Healer is on top of their game and the group is not horrible--Your RS can supplement just fine, but---you will still need to throw some masses once the blades start coming in, or if the group is taking damage--esp if other healer is only using mass heal in a pug of newer players that don't have all the gear yet, and maybe lower CON than they should have

I don't use Mass Heal in Part 4 because I find too slow even with quicken, and it does not allow me to throw out an emergency heal--or play offensive caster like I like to do and throw DPS spells at Harry.

[cheever77]

Depending on his mana situation, I find doing a continuous mass heal that alternates with the other healers works very well. I save the mass cure serious' and heal for the "oh ****" situations that sometimes happen.

Not much dancing needs to happen either, stay inside until the blades do a loop or 2 then step outside of them and just stand there. You should be FoM and the raid should be preventing any meteor swarms from getting out.

I agree with the saving bursts though, if he goes into a 2nd and 3rd round use burst for the trash to save some SP.

While I agree with cycling your mass heals with the other healer in the raid. I also have gotten a feel by the time we hit part 4 whether our DPS will be one or two rounds and how bad the LAG monster is. If lag monster is bad I will spam every mass cure/heal I have and let other healer spot heal. Usually using this method I am out of SP on the first round. If it goes to two round other healer can take over. He won't have done much spot healing as red bars never drop that much in this method. However if lag is extra bad expect the odd *ding* as a red bar goes from full to 0 in one "hit". No fault of healers. Lag is the big killer in part 4 more than lack of healing IMO

[Tumarek]

With my Battlecleric i usually fight in the first row too. What i do is hit a burst and right away after start the mass heal. The burst gives you a little puffer for the time the mass heal is casting... after the mass heal is complete melee. When mass heal cooldown is about at 1 sec hit burst agein and mass heal.

I normally get out just before the blades get in... throw myself a heal and start a new mass heal. If the group is ubber squishy you will maybe need cures, but actually have to ask yourself if the group is just not to squishy. In long drawn out healing orgies cures tend to drain your SP too fast so i try to rely on Mass Heal as much as possible.

Its always a question how bad you want to fin ish it. If Harry is not dead after round 2 and you couldnt keep everybody up with mass heals you probably would have had to spam mass cures and mybe drink on of those blue pots at some point. This is not always accebtable in a random shroud PUG.

[makmakkabab]

Thanks for the replies, I am definitely taking notes. I just wanted to add that some people in that group told me that I should have just spammed mass heals, nothing else. by the way, in the run I had previous to that specific run, I tried using mass heals. I just caped my toon and the last level was the 17 cleric, so i really didn't know how slow it is. In any case, I remember trying to cast it, but by the time the spell went off, it landed on full health bars from the other healers mass heals. I was really off with the timing. definitely something I need to work on.

[Rasczak]

Don't see how it could be your fault if their were two clerics.

And don't rely on bursts, use mass cure crit or mass cure mod, it also depends on how fast Harry is dropping. Pointless throwing all your sp at the group if it's going to be longer than one round.

Best suggestion is to try time your heals to the other healer, use a burst between his masses, use a quickened mass heal then burst after a slight wait. If a party is dropping quickly then it's just timing your heals. I've seen 3 healers in there before all healing at the exact same time which is pointless.

[AussieEngineer]

Thanks for the replies, I am definitely taking notes. I just wanted to add that some people in that group told me that I should have just spammed mass heals, nothing else. ... <snip>.

Typically, when people say you should have spammed mass heals.. they probably meant mass cure <x> spells, not necessarily 'Mass Heal'.
I myself refer to any mass healing spells as mass heals, (even when the cap was 16, and we didn't have 'Mass Heal' yet).

[phalaeo]

If that many people were dying with two healers, it's certainly not your fault.

I stand in with the melees on my CLR 18/ MNK 2, not sure why others have an issue with that being ok... if you have evasion and decent saves, just stand there and center heals on yourself- mass heal combined with the occasional burst.

Don't use mass crit, it's too SP expensive. If you have to alternate Mass Heal with something, alt with mass cure light or mod.

[AylinIsAwesome]

The bursts are not worth the risk of damage to you. You will be eating meteor swarms and his bouncing agro, all it takes is a bad mix of that to put you out of commission.

You should not need to use any meta's except quicken for mass heal, you can easily avoid the swords and as long as the raid is positioned correctly will not eat any meteor swarms. E.Healing at most though as only a 17 cleric you may burn through mana fast in pugs.

Ignore this advice OP. There is absolutely no reason not to go up and melee Arry (unless the lag is absolutely terrible).

Thanks for the replies, I am definitely taking notes. I just wanted to add that some people in that group told me that I should have just spammed mass heals, nothing else. by the way, in the run I had previous to that specific run, I tried using mass heals. I just caped my toon and the last level was the 17 cleric, so i really didn't know how slow it is. In any case, I remember trying to cast it, but by the time the spell went off, it landed on full health bars from the other healers mass heals. I was really off with the timing. definitely something I need to work on.

Lots of people swear by Mass Heal since it's super mana efficient and heals for a lot. If you watch Arry's animations, he'll do this Hadoken thing every so often. What he's actually doing is casting Meteor Swarm, so if you start casting at the beginning of his animation, his meteor swarm will hit your group, then your Mass Heal and everyone's at full again. I suggest you learn the timing of Mass Heal, but don't rely solely on it except in situations where it's sure to be a long, drawn out fight.

Also if you have the pack, head out to Shavarath and get one (or both) of the Cleric belts. There are two that have three charges of Superior Ardor 8 on them, which I use for most of my healing needs.

[voodoogroves]

(1) Talk to the other healer and make sure one of you has lead and one is only spot healing; no sense wasting SP.
(2) Make sure you have Quicken Spell on.
(3) After you see the meteor swarm, lots of the party just took some untyped and fire damage - good time to toss a Mass Protection from Elements on the mob.
(4) You can probably do it JUST with Heal, Mass and working on your timing. If you find you are NOT, toss in Mass Cure Light / Moderate / Whatever as appropriate to fill in.
(5) Keep your own aura up if you are a RS. It'll help with the blades. Also, try not to stand in them.

Now if it goes 3+ rounds you've got a different problem.

[HalfOrcBeautyQueen]

Hello experts of Eberron, I am new to the shroud and been there maybe 4 times. I'm playing a 17/2/1 cleric monk rogue build. On my last run there, there was an incident where everybody got killed. naturally, I was the one they blamed. now I come to you for advice. We were at part 4 (I think), we were the red fiend thingy with the occasional blades flying at us. we were 2 clerics, he was spamming mass heals, and I was at the boss feet spamming radiant bursts. now, I thought it was a good tactics as i have done it before with no deaths, and also I'm not so used to the mass heals, they just take forever to go off (with quicken). I didn't have any problem being there with the melee's as with evasion, good reflex saves and relatively high AC, I wasn't taking to much of a damage. but people started to die, and eventually so did I. so the question is, was it all my fault? are those bursts not a valid way to heal at that particular part? I had all my meta's on - H.empowerment, empower, max, quicken. I also had healing lore item and superior potency 6 item. needless to say, I felt pretty bad after that. any thoughts?

To answer your question,
Yes. You are doing it wrong.

Was it all your fault that the party wiped? No. Someone should have stopped you, or told you to stop, the minute you ran up to Harry and started using your bursts. If no one told you to stand back and cast mass heals, then the fault while lies with the party, not you (it was your first, after all).

In Shroud you should only be using Mass heals/cures to keep your party up. Other players expect this and tend to stick together so that the Mass heals/cures will work on the whole group. You'll find that frequently players will get yelled at for wandering out too far and getting aggro/damage.

Your radiant servant enhancements aren't as effective in the Shroud, or most end-game content. They still work, and come in handy, but by this point in the game the HPs of the melee is too high to be properly filled by it. You should only use them to spot heal, or in cases of emergency when you run out of mana.

[ToKu]

Ignore this advice OP. There is absolutely no reason not to go up and melee Arry (unless the lag is absolutely terrible).

Because putting yourself in range of taking unnessesary damage is good? Unless your sporting a Harry beater to offer DPS to justify the risk then just stand outside, avoid any damage so your not having to worry about yourself in addition to the raid.

Your a healer, you were not brought in for your DPS, if you are doing anything but focusing on keeping your raid alive you are failing. If you have to worry about keeping yourself alive because of a situation you put yourself into you are failing.

Me standing outside of Harry with raid properly surrounding Harry = zero chance at eating a meteor swarm.

Lots of people swear by Mass Heal since it's super mana efficient and heals for a lot. If you watch Arry's animations, he'll do this Hadoken thing every so often. What he's actually doing is casting Meteor Swarm, so if you start casting at the beginning of his animation, his meteor swarm will hit your group, then your Mass Heal and everyone's at full again. I suggest you learn the timing of Mass Heal, but don't rely solely on it except in situations where it's sure to be a long, drawn out fight.

Unless your raids DPS is so low Harry will go into more then 2 rounds, I cannot see why alternating mass heal with other healer would not be the best solution. It will ensure that just about everyone is topped off every few seconds and you still have your mass cures for just incase. At the very least 1 of the healers should be chaining mass heal, the other can be the spot healer.

[d4rkstars]

many good advices have been given so i will be brief

basically what you did wasnt wrong, my cleric (which is pure) is always standing "near" melee to let my aura heal them, its 50 heal / sec (and get at 100+ on people with amplification) though not being in melee so im only hit by meteor when they come close, but i have a lot of hp

then i just add some mass heal (often the lower one, as they are powerfull enough) i dont recall having used mass heal (the spell) or just to remoove poison if we forogt to buff poison immunity

to explain your wipe

not your fault:
- group can be squishy
- group can be low dps, making the fight long and stressing a lot the healers
- lag, it happens, yesterday in a run in p5 all melee died in a second, without nay of use "feeling" any lag, one second they were full, one second after they were all dead (hopefully we still commpleted with fast resurection and all
- no harmstring / exhaustion - this makes heal much much harder when not done

caster healer fault (not necessarly you, a wipe is a combination of bad elements)
- forgot to put a buff (poison, FR)
- forgot to renew mass protection, this is essential and when this is nicely done healing is really
- heal to slow and badly timed (= at same time from both healers so half is wasted)


anyway whatever happened, as healer you will be bblamed, there is nothing you can do about it - because it is obvious that more healing would have prevented death - and its less obvisous to point out sucky dps, sucky gear

that's healer life, grump about it a little, then go on, shroud is easy enough

[Pallol_One-Eye]

To answer your question,
Yes. You are doing it wrong.

Was it all your fault that the party wiped? No. Someone should have stopped you, or told you to stop, the minute you ran up to Harry and started using your bursts. If no one told you to stand back and cast mass heals, then the fault while lies with the party, not you (it was your first, after all).

In Shroud you should only be using Mass heals/cures to keep your party up. Other players expect this and tend to stick together so that the Mass heals/cures will work on the whole group. You'll find that frequently players will get yelled at for wandering out too far and getting aggro/damage.

Your radiant servant enhancements aren't as effective in the Shroud, or most end-game content. They still work, and come in handy, but by this point in the game the HPs of the melee is too high to be properly filled by it. You should only use them to spot heal, or in cases of emergency when you run out of mana.

Actually, my experience here shows that the aura/burst works great between rounds as a SP saver. The burst should top people off after a round if necessary and the aura should basically keep them at full HP before they go in for round 2, etc.

Your milage may vary of course.