S&B OVERPOWERED. TURBINE Pls FIX!!!

[cforce]

Turbine, the nerf to S&B-style melees out on Lamannia is a great start, but honestly – do you really think this fixes the problem? I’m soooo tired of all of the cookie cutter S&B builds running around and dominating the end-game content. When you can take any melee build out there and make it better by splashing S&B, that is a huge, HUGE balance problem. Take a look at the most popular S&B splashes out there: the ExS&Bloiter, MonS&Ber, Big F’in Board, and worst, Impaqt’s Really Good Favored S&Boul – if you spent five minutes playing the game you’re building, you’d see these over-powered builds in action. The worst part is that it costs so little to splash S&B! A Sword and Board splash can do everything a TWF or THF build can do, and can also switch to carrying a cool-looking shield! And, don’t get me started on all of those Stalwart Defenders. DR 6/- from tier III and carrying a shield? That’s a whole 20% more DR than my Monk-splash gets by equipping Kaelth’s Touch – way more of an advantage than is justified by having less AC than my Monk splash-Kensai/Tempest.

Here are a few things that happened to me just over the past week:

• PuG Shroud run, Normal: 2 Clerics, a Sorc (me), and 9(!) S&B builds. (Seriously, not one person still bothers playing a TWF? I know they’re gimp, but seriously people – show some originality.) We get to part 4, and the S&B’s all turtle up and shield block around Harry, and end up taking ONLY FIRE DAMAGE. That’s, like, half as much damage as they should be! The Cleric’s SP bar lasted all the way through 3 rounds!!!
  
• Sins of Attrition, Elite: 2 Stalwart Defenders and a THF Frenzied Berserker. The 2 stalwart defenders shield blocked throughout, and took maybe 1/2 the damage that the FB did while he was mowing everything down. Seriously, if you can shield block to reduce your incoming damage by 50%, why build for anything else?

Look, I appreciate the toning down of the Stalwart and DoS hate generation as much as everyone else. I can only imagine how much worse many of the S&B exploits that are currently being floated around would be if combined with a strategy to encourage mobs to attack the S&B players. Sheesh! But there’s much, much more that needs to be done to eradicate the current scourge of cookie-cutter S&B builds and return DDO to its TWF and THF roots. Here are some suggestions:

• Create a min level 9 trinket that can be equipped for DR 6 instead of DR 5. That will help bring TWF and THF to parity with the HUGE Stalwart build advantage.
• Introduce a new feat, “Off Hand Blocking”, which would allow TWF melee’s to enter a stance which drops their off-hand proc rate to 0%, but in exchange, adds their weapon bonus to their Blocking DR when they enter a blocking stance.

These are just a few suggestions off the top of my head – I’m sure the community can come up with other ideas. But please, PLEASE, do not let the current OVERPOWERED S&B builds to continue to dominate DDO. Lowering the hate generation potential isn’t enough – you’re going to need to do a lot more to bring these overpowered builds in line!!!

[Trillea]

lolz

[jhorn02]

That's one of the most clever posts I've seen in my 4.5 years on the forums. Both poignant and well thought out. ...great way to make a point...especially one that's been made hundreds of times more directly and with less flair. Nicely done, sir.

[Nezichiend]

My brain 'sploid

[dogpig00]

Right, ranged combat is way overpowered, especially darts and throwing axes.

Oh... i forgot TEN thousand star... you can throw 10,000 Shuriken at once... way too imba

pls nerf

[Ralmeth]

you’re going to need to do a lot more to bring these overpowered builds in line!!!

They could always get rid of those overpowered greensteel shields, or perhaps figure out a way to make S&B DPS a lot lower than THF or TWF. Oh wait...

[sirdanile]

I see what you did there...

+rep for being clever :P

[Talltale-Storyteller]

You forgot to mention how easy it is for them to get the end game AC gear necessary to fill their party role when compared to getting an end game THF weapon. That needs to be nerfed as well.



+1

[Natashaelle]

... +1

[stoolcannon]

Turbine, the nerf to S&B-style melees out on Lamannia is a great start, but honestly – do you really think this fixes the problem? I’m soooo tired of all of the cookie cutter S&B builds running around and dominating the end-game content. When you can take any melee build out there and make it better by splashing S&B, that is a huge, HUGE balance problem. Take a look at the most popular S&B splashes out there: the ExS&Bloiter, MonS&Ber, Big F’in Board, and worst, Impaqt’s Really Good Favored S&Boul – if you spent five minutes playing the game you’re building, you’d see these over-powered builds in action. The worst part is that it costs so little to splash S&B! A Sword and Board splash can do everything a TWF or THF build can do, and can also switch to carrying a cool-looking shield! And, don’t get me started on all of those Stalwart Defenders. DR 6/- from tier III and carrying a shield? That’s a whole 20% more DR than my Monk-splash gets by equipping Kaelth’s Touch – way more of an advantage than is justified by having less AC than my Monk splash-Kensai/Tempest.

Here are a few things that happened to me just over the past week:

• PuG Shroud run, Normal: 2 Clerics, a Sorc (me), and 9(!) S&B builds. (Seriously, not one person still bothers playing a TWF? I know they’re gimp, but seriously people – show some originality.) We get to part 4, and the S&B’s all turtle up and shield block around Harry, and end up taking ONLY FIRE DAMAGE. That’s, like, half as much damage as they should be! The Cleric’s SP bar lasted all the way through 3 rounds!!!
  
• Sins of Attrition, Elite: 2 Stalwart Defenders and a THF Frenzied Berserker. The 2 stalwart defenders shield blocked throughout, and took maybe 1/2 the damage that the FB did while he was mowing everything down. Seriously, if you can shield block to reduce your incoming damage by 50%, why build for anything else?

Look, I appreciate the toning down of the Stalwart and DoS hate generation as much as everyone else. I can only imagine how much worse many of the S&B exploits that are currently being floated around would be if combined with a strategy to encourage mobs to attack the S&B players. Sheesh! But there’s much, much more that needs to be done to eradicate the current scourge of cookie-cutter S&B builds and return DDO to its TWF and THF roots. Here are some suggestions:

• Create a min level 9 trinket that can be equipped for DR 6 instead of DR 5. That will help bring TWF and THF to parity with the HUGE Stalwart build advantage.
• Introduce a new feat, “Off Hand Blocking”, which would allow TWF melee’s to enter a stance which drops their off-hand proc rate to 0%, but in exchange, adds their weapon bonus to their Blocking DR when they enter a blocking stance.

These are just a few suggestions off the top of my head – I’m sure the community can come up with other ideas. But please, PLEASE, do not let the current OVERPOWERED S&B builds to continue to dominate DDO. Lowering the hate generation potential isn’t enough – you’re going to need to do a lot more to bring these overpowered builds in line!!!

Post of the year.

[articwarrior]

ugh if you think S&B needs scrapping because people play it, don't play the game. S&B does NOT have as much dps as a main melee, and if they did then they have no AC and isnt that what it's all about?

[DrNuegebauer]

Awesome!

[Asketes]

good to see you still around force!



I always love reading your posts.


cheers dude

-Perma

[biggin]

I don't know, I heard in the next update S&B is getting a huge boost. You can now dual-wield shields.

[Noelemahc]

ugh if you think S&B needs scrapping because people play it, don't play the game. S&B does NOT have as much dps as a main melee, and if they did then they have no AC and isnt that what it's all about?

Someone's sarcasm detector is broken.

[MalakRevan]

Great post but my head hurts now...........anyone have a Dirty Kobold I can drink?

[Goldeneye]

Devs: Please don't nerf my super useful Epic Shields!!!!

[k1ngp1n]

Awesomeness

You win the forum.

[Delt]

Sarcasm is rarely clever, but you sir kept it going all the way until the end. I am impressed and it was well done.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Lmao
+1