DDO economy

[pMagic]

The only problem with that is they would lose money.

Most people would just stop buying stuff by buying points and instead would farm Plat and/or points to purchase everything.

While it would be a great plat sink, it would kill the bottom line.

It will hurt the bottom line but will it hurt them that much?

Maybe just Shroud ingreds should be available for plats.

[EyeRekon]

I do not think selling DDO Store items for plat will damage the bottom line too much actually. It might for a while when it first starts but after that plat is drained people will have to go back to using TPs primarily. As it is they give away TP for favor anyway right? If people are willing to grind out favor or plat, what's the difference?

To answer my own question favor awards are once-and-done, you don't continually gain favor - unlike plat. But then people get around that with throw-away toons so it really is the same afterall.

There is already a somewhat indirect and limited way to use plat for some DDO Store items with Small/Medium/Large Dragonshard Fragments. You can definitely buy those fragments from others with plat and exchange them for some DDO Store items. Now (U7) you might receive DDO Store items in random loot as well.

The DDO Store and Turbine's revenue aspirations cannot compete with people who place no value on their time in order to grind out TPs and insist on being F2P.

Like many of you, I support the idea. It will drain plat, reduce prices, and provide players with another way to valuate both items and plat. 1 Large Devil Scale = 600k plat = 3x +20% XP Elixers...

[pMagic]

After reading this post, I want to do an experiment. What if I was to post all my vendor items in the AH for ultra low prices with no buyout price?

What do you suppose will happen?

My aim is to make decent items accessible to new players but at the same time keep the veterans from competing with the newbies.

I think that newbie bid on it because of the low price but plat filled coffers will skip it due to the lack of a buyout price or will they take advantage and wait for the end of the auction and just outbid everyone for a quick buy.

I'm not sure how it will work. This will cost me some time and plats to find out.

[underpants]

There are many ways to tax players if they need to

Some ideas

1mil plat for 100 turbine points
Step fee to level past 16
More quest options of bribery
guild ship decorations for plat

. . .

economy is fine no one needs any of this stuff so it is all optional to buy

[joueur]

What does anyone think about the DDO economy?

1) Do you think there is enough plat sink in the game to balance the new plats created by quest loot? Obviously, it can't be 1 to 1 but it should be a good ratio so players are making plats but not making too much plats.

2) How easy is it to farm for plats? If you were to farm for plats how long would it take you to cap a toon with plats?

3) When does the plat standard not work for you? I mean when do you start trading for like items and not plats?

4) Is the DDO economy broken? If it is what are some ways you think it can be fixed?

I would really love to hear from a few Devs on this topic.

I bet you sell plat on your website.
That's why you're asking these questions.

[pMagic]

I bet you sell plat on your website.
That's why you're asking these questions.

LOL!

If I was to sell plats how much would $1 buy?

Since store bought items can now drop in regular chests, this is an interesting question that have a real answer.

[hobs]

Sorry this is a late post, came here after ddo cocktail hour mentioned it.

As an economics professor, this thread is really interesting to me.

I've been playing for a few months. The economy doesn't feel broken for me. Though I don't have any capped toons. Quite a few in the high teens. (15, 15, 18). On the assumption of buy low/sell high, while leveling up, I've always been able to make money selling ingredients or whatever twink gear I have for lots of plat, and use it to buy whatever gear I've needed along the way (metalline of pure good, +6 stat items, +13 skill items, etc). There are always deals if you are willing to shop.

Inflation has seemed relatively steady in the time I've been here. Sure a +2 wis hat can cost 5000pp in the AH, but that also means you can sell such hats for 5000pp so it all works out.

Of course this may be different once I cap, but until then, things seem pretty well balanced.

As an economist, one recommendation I had had for the AH (in addition to better search options, like searching inside descriptions and allowing "NOT" and other boolean operators) was some kind of CPI price index based on a basket of standard goods, and some kind of monetary policy, where instead of tweaking interest rates based on inflation, they could tweak drop rates, or AH fees or vendor sales rates. Though perhaps Turbine already does this.

The trickier thing would be if there are vastly different inflation rates for capped characters vs non-capped, but there are ways to handle that.

[pMagic]

Sorry this is a late post, came here after ddo cocktail hour mentioned it.

As an economics professor, this thread is really interesting to me.

I've been playing for a few months. The economy doesn't feel broken for me. Though I don't have any capped toons. Quite a few in the high teens. (15, 15, 18). On the assumption of buy low/sell high, while leveling up, I've always been able to make money selling ingredients or whatever twink gear I have for lots of plat, and use it to buy whatever gear I've needed along the way (metalline of pure good, +6 stat items, +13 skill items, etc). There are always deals if you are willing to shop.

Inflation has seemed relatively steady in the time I've been here. Sure a +2 wis hat can cost 5000pp in the AH, but that also means you can sell such hats for 5000pp so it all works out.

Of course this may be different once I cap, but until then, things seem pretty well balanced.

As an economist, one recommendation I had had for the AH (in addition to better search options, like searching inside descriptions and allowing "NOT" and other boolean operators) was some kind of CPI price index based on a basket of standard goods, and some kind of monetary policy, where instead of tweaking interest rates based on inflation, they could tweak drop rates, or AH fees or vendor sales rates. Though perhaps Turbine already does this.

The trickier thing would be if there are vastly different inflation rates for capped characters vs non-capped, but there are ways to handle that.

Once you're able to run Shroud, you'll see that you can get in excess of 15k pp a run not counting the ingredients you get which you can also sell. You can also farm the shroud till ransack. In short you'll have more plats then you'll know what to do with.

Lets say you roll a new toon and want to get some gear for it. You hit the AH and just buy whatever you need. Those players who are new can never compete with you unless they have a friend bank roll them.

Did you start playing before or after the change from the gold standard to the platinum standard? There was a huge price jump and for some things it never went back to its old prices.

You CPI idea is very interesting. I've started collecting data on what sells for what and so far my data set is very small because I only have access to what I sold and not what others buy/sell.

I've been tracking +X straight stat item, tomes, and ingredients because those sell regularly. I am very interested what the data would look like in a year or so.

[Postumus]

Low-levels, people can't afford the AH prices.

I disagree with that. It didn't take me long to figure out which collectibles were valuable and what I should be selling on the AH vs. turning in for rewards of dubious value.


After running harbor quests (different ones, not farming) I made over 10k pp on the AH - and I usually price much lower than others b/c I want to sell fast.


With 10k, and looking for deals, I was able to purchase some really nice gear for a 4th lvl char and for much less than I would have paid the pawn brokers.

[Postumus]

You CPI idea is very interesting. I've started collecting data on what sells for what and so far my data set is very small because I only have access to what I sold and not what others buy/sell.

I've been tracking +X straight stat item, tomes, and ingredients because those sell regularly. I am very interested what the data would look like in a year or so.

That would be interesting to see.


I think a lot of people don't 'shop' the AH per se, since the general reaction is "ZOMG PRICES ARE TOO HIGH11!" And yes, some of the outlier prices are just, well, insane. But typically when I'm shopping those items with insane prices don't sell, or at least they look like they won't b/c the time remaining is 1-2 hours and they don't appear they have any bids.


If someone is patient, is willing to lose an auction here or there, and actually shop, there are some really great deals out there.


But I also understand why people don't want to spend much time virtually shopping when they could be hacking up monsters and saving the world. In that case, why shouldn't they expect to pay a premium to someone who is saving them time and effort?


I don't think there is 'price gouging' since nothing sold on the AH is actually needed by anyone. In effect they are all convenience or luxury items.

[Postumus]

After reading this post, I want to do an experiment. What if I was to post all my vendor items in the AH for ultra low prices with no buyout price?

What do you suppose will happen?

My aim is to make decent items accessible to new players but at the same time keep the veterans from competing with the newbies.

I think that newbie bid on it because of the low price but plat filled coffers will skip it due to the lack of a buyout price or will they take advantage and wait for the end of the auction and just outbid everyone for a quick buy.

I'm not sure how it will work. This will cost me some time and plats to find out.

I think you are right to an extent. The newbie/lowbie/DDOwbie would have an equal chance of winning the auction only if a more savvy buyer with more plat didn't raise the bid beyond what a newbie could afford.


Often I post items at 10-25% less than the going rate, but I usually post low level stat boost items (Like CON+1, CHA +1) at their DDO list value so a lowbie can afford them. Low level weapons, etc I post at around 25-30% their list value if I think it might sell.

[Ramza]

One of the best things I miss from neverwinter nights is a crafting system you pay for with real gold, or in this case plat. The addition of a real crafting system would do wonders for this game, forget the current crafting system, it sucks. You should be able to create items with your choice of prefixes and suffixes. Ingredients should be purchasable from a vendor, not the auction, and the plat cost should escalate for each additional upgrade to the item.

[t0r012]

I've also taken to posting decent items for relatively cheap in order to get gear in people's hands and make a little plat.

The problem as I see it is twofold: the very large AH take (30%) increases the price you need to ask for an item to receive a return, while the low cost to post the item decreases incentive to post for a "reasonable" price. Since the take is high, and the post cost low, you can put an item up over and over for a low amount hoping someone will cave in and buy the item eventually.

Lowering the AH take and increasing the posting cost should have the reverse effect, everyone will lose less money on the AH, meaning more items posted, and thus more price competition. Second, high post costs will mean there is an incentive to price items to sell, instead of shooting for hail mary prices.

If they based the posting cost on the opening bid price (20% of opening bid, refunded if the item sells), a lot fewer items would go up at 1 million plat with a 3 million buyout.

I think you are deluding yourself.
Ah fees aren't driving the Hail Mary prices, players are. do you really think there is going to be a crazy drop in prices because AH fees have gone down? I don't get your logic on this. If something is selling for 1 mil plat now, why would the prices get lowered because you are paying less to list it?
Nobody would, they would post it for the same amount and get it. Making more profit. Everyone would do the same and everyone would have more money thus actually increasing the prices on the AH in the end.

[Ratnix]

I disagree with that. It didn't take me long to figure out which collectibles were valuable and what I should be selling on the AH vs. turning in for rewards of dubious value.


After running harbor quests (different ones, not farming) I made over 10k pp on the AH - and I usually price much lower than others b/c I want to sell fast.


With 10k, and looking for deals, I was able to purchase some really nice gear for a 4th lvl char and for much less than I would have paid the pawn brokers.

I wish it was as easy as you say it was for you.

I have tried doing the same thing on my lvl 4 monk and haven't been able to get a single collectible to sell on the AH, and that is with me posting them at a lower starting value and lower buyout than any other on the AH at the time of my posting.

I can understand the prayer beads and the Deadly Feverblanch not selling, as they are both pretty common, but you would think that Vials of Pure Water posted at a lower price than any of the others would actually sell, but I haven't had a single sale.

I have yet to break 1k pp on my monk.

[JayDubya]

I wish it was as easy as you say it was for you.

I have tried doing the same thing on my lvl 4 monk and haven't been able to get a single collectible to sell on the AH, and that is with me posting them at a lower starting value and lower buyout than any other on the AH at the time of my posting.

I can understand the prayer beads and the Deadly Feverblanch not selling, as they are both pretty common, but you would think that Vials of Pure Water posted at a lower price than any of the others would actually sell, but I haven't had a single sale.

I have yet to break 1k pp on my monk.

Keep trying. Your fees for using the AH for collectibles are super-low. Also, if you're not doing this: try bundling into exactly the number of vials/etc one needs for crafting, and give it a buyout price.

Let me put it to you this way. If I want to add +1 AC to my Icy Raiment, I go to the AH, find whoever is selling 5 vials with the lowest buyout, and unless it's crazy high (like more than 15k) I'll just buy it right there. I think I paid 5k last time, for 5 vials.

But I only need to do that a couple of times a year at most. The key is to be consistent - keep it listed. Eventually someone will come along with a ton more plat than collectible-farming time, and you'll get your payout. This is true of all of the crafting collectibles.

[JayDubya]

Oh, and the reason there's bartering at the top end is because of the per-player plat cap of 4 million, and the AH plat cap of 2 million.

Right now, the best we can say is 'over 2 million' for these items. If those two caps were lifted, to, say, 4 billion and 2 billion, we'd be able to identify the average price of those rare items (unless they were worth more than 2 billion)

Plat Sinks - there's no reason at all why epic crafting shouldn't come at a price. 100k? 250k? And I say this as someone who has a lot more epic crafting in my future than in my past.

Another plat sink: 150k plat for 5 TPs. That's potentially a million plat for 30 TP, not a trivial undertaking.

Another: Rentable bank slots - instead of a one-time fee to get that 4th bank tab, why not a monthly/weekly/daily rent?

The airship amenities could also be more expensive, and the airships themselves might could be subject to an ongoing tax. That's more complicated, but it's do-able.

[pMagic]

I wish it was as easy as you say it was for you.

I have tried doing the same thing on my lvl 4 monk and haven't been able to get a single collectible to sell on the AH, and that is with me posting them at a lower starting value and lower buyout than any other on the AH at the time of my posting.

I can understand the prayer beads and the Deadly Feverblanch not selling, as they are both pretty common, but you would think that Vials of Pure Water posted at a lower price than any of the others would actually sell, but I haven't had a single sale.

I have yet to break 1k pp on my monk.

I think you need to be a little lucky and collect the right stuff. It is doable. In Kobold Ring Leader (L2 quest in harbor), there are 3 spot you can farm for collectible and you can do those real fast with a lowbie toon.

[ProdigalGuru]

I have been playing for about a year and the most I got on 1 toon, my main, is 165k plat. I only have one capped toon, again, my main, so I only play about 6 to 10 hours a week. If I really wanted to make plat I would do what everyone else has suggested. I dont think plat is that important in the game other than to get pots and maybe some gear that you would have to farm for months that you might not ever get. I am happy with gear that isnt superiour to everyone else. I still get in Shroud groups and I am working on my Greensteel items. On my main toon I still havent done all the quests so I am still pretty happy with the game and the people I have met.

Funny, cuz ur join date is '06....

Most people lie the other way....

[Postumus]

I wish it was as easy as you say it was for you.

I have tried doing the same thing on my lvl 4 monk and haven't been able to get a single collectible to sell on the AH, and that is with me posting them at a lower starting value and lower buyout than any other on the AH at the time of my posting.

I can understand the prayer beads and the Deadly Feverblanch not selling, as they are both pretty common, but you would think that Vials of Pure Water posted at a lower price than any of the others would actually sell, but I haven't had a single sale.

I have yet to break 1k pp on my monk.

That's really puzzling, and I'd like to help you with this b/c I honestly and sincerely think it is easy to make 5-10k plat on a basic harbor run.


I honestly did make over 10k on that harbor run. I think I ran all the quests but WW, Cerulean Hills, & kobold assault and I pulled two pure waters, two feverblanches, a tome of khyber, a few +1 stat items and various other low end items and possibly a lesser mnemonic pot.


Here's what I sold them for, and what I made after posting and AH fees:

Item // AH sale price // Approximate Net Profit (after posting & AH fee)

2 feverblanche // 650ea // 800pp
2 pure water // 900ea // 1200pp
2 +1 stat items // 100ea // 130pp
1 lesser mnem pot// 450 // 300pp
1 tome khyber // 1500 // 1000pp
38 prayer beads// 100 (for all)// 65pp

So just off of this stuff I made, after AH posting cost and 30% fee, about 3395 plat.

I also sold any weapon and armor item I pulled that was worth 400p (DDO item list price) or more. Since my char has no haggle, he usually only gets about 10% the list price of any item he sells so instead of selling a typical 400pp item to a vendor for 40pp, I usually list it on the AH with a starting price of about 80pp (so I'll make slightly more than if I vendored it) with a buyout of anywhere from 120 - 210.


I can sell about 75% of my items like that so instead of making 40pp on those items, I'm making closer to 140pp. That's 4 times more.


Stat boost items (+1 str, cha, con) almost always sell for their DDO list price. So instead of getting 10p off of a 100p item, you make closer to 65p. Thats 6 times more than at a vendor. It adds up.


I also trade in all those icons and junk for +1/+2 ammo and bundle that and sell those for half list price.


It can be done. You can do it too.

[pMagic]

That's really puzzling, and I'd like to help you with this b/c I honestly and sincerely think it is easy to make 5-10k plat on a basic harbor run.


I honestly did make over 10k on that harbor run. I think I ran all the quests but WW, Cerulean Hills, & kobold assault and I pulled two pure waters, two feverblanches, a tome of khyber, a few +1 stat items and various other low end items and possibly a lesser mnemonic pot.


Here's what I sold them for, and what I made after posting and AH fees:

Item // AH sale price // Approximate Net Profit (after posting & AH fee)

2 feverblanche // 650ea // 800pp
2 pure water // 900ea // 1200pp
2 +1 stat items // 100ea // 130pp
1 lesser mnem pot// 450 // 300pp
1 tome khyber // 1500 // 1000pp
38 prayer beads// 100 (for all)// 65pp

So just off of this stuff I made, after AH posting cost and 30% fee, about 3395 plat.

I also sold any weapon and armor item I pulled that was worth 400p (DDO item list price) or more. Since my char has no haggle, he usually only gets about 10% the list price of any item he sells so instead of selling a typical 400pp item to a vendor for 40pp, I usually list it on the AH with a starting price of about 80pp (so I'll make slightly more than if I vendored it) with a buyout of anywhere from 120 - 210.


I can sell about 75% of my items like that so instead of making 40pp on those items, I'm making closer to 140pp. That's 4 times more.


Stat boost items (+1 str, cha, con) almost always sell for their DDO list price. So instead of getting 10p off of a 100p item, you make closer to 65p. Thats 6 times more than at a vendor. It adds up.


I also trade in all those icons and junk for +1/+2 ammo and bundle that and sell those for half list price.


It can be done. You can do it too.

I never sell stat boost items (+1 str,char, con) in the AH. I just vendor it.

I'm going to give this a go around myself. A barb with starter gear can solo all those quests in the harbor. If you have veteran status its a joke. All you need is time.