The race for a Monk?

[VonAltair]

Alright, I am going to make a monk and wondering what might be good race for a monk. There is already a lot of builds and races suggested. However now when Half Orcs came in, it isin't quite clear which might work better. I would like to hear some veteran monk's opinnions about this.

* Halfling (for dex build)
+ Dragonmark heals
+ AC bonus
+ Situational damage bonus from sneak attack
- Str penalty
- Carry penalty
- shorty jokes eh?

* Human
- Jack of all trades

* Dwarf sturdy monk? Atleast its funny combination!
+ Con bonus (cha penalty doesn't hit)

*HALF ORC (for str build)
- This seems to be very good option for a Dark Monk str/dps build.
- mez not stupid, e kill!

I am intrested about Half Orcs and Halflings since they both seems to be very viable while first is str build race and
another would like to hit the road with dex.

Thanks for comments already

[voodoogroves]

I prefer warforged, but I enjoy the tactical options (stun).

[Kaldahr]

I've played Human, Floating Leaf (elf monk / ranger; played unarmed until level 8 or 9), halfling to level 6, human to level 12, and WF to 13 (current).

Out of all of them, I prefer the WF for the tactics line and immunities (many of which you get as monk but hold / earthgrab immunity is really nice and I can't say enough about immunity to enervation - Beholder? What beholder?).

I really wanted to like halfling but I just couldn't get past the half carrying capacity. Every time I got hit with negative STR I'd end up uncentered.

If I ever try another character, I might try out a human just for the feat bonus and lack of starting stat penalty. That'll be after some gearing up though. There's a few really nice human monks out there.

Too, you might consider if you are primarily soloing (me) or if you tend to group a lot. The consideration of halfling might change if there's a lot of other people around to absorb spell attacks and give you the boost to SA that halflings enjoy.

[wolflordnexus]

Dwarf is great for monk as you can get a + Con and no negatives to any other Monk Stats you also get the tactics line to buff up stunning fist DC's

[CherryHaze]

Allso dipends on teh build and tipe of game u like to do ...
I have halfling, dex based, if u want to go on str u might cosnider others. I've heard from other players that warfarged or halforc works. ... dunno

[NeutronStar]

Warforged for the WF immunities (can't drown, can't be level drained in Subterrane by Beholders for example) and the Tactics Enhancements to help Stunning Fist. More hitpoints as well.

[Xeraphim]

Cucumber.

Tomato is too squishy, and Artichoke is too pointy.

You want some good aerodynamics on it for loading into a cannon.

[Xeraphim]

Human Heal Amp and Adaptability - they can burst for the highest DPS with aggro that a Monk can obtain, and take the largest incoming heals of all races due to the stacking heal amplification, making them VERY hard to kill when properly geared.

HOrc is good for a Glass Cannon type Monk. Great DPS, low survivability in comparisons(Halfling HP, no AC, and during Boost a Human is still doing 1 more damage a hit).

Dwarf is only good for Race Restricted handwraps, due to too many drawbacks.

Warforged is good for Raid Tanking due to HP, Reconstructability(Dual Healing sources), and just under HOrc for DPS(over Human nonboosted, under Human boosted).


In consideration of To-Hit, the HOrc and WF Power Attack enhancements cause them to lose a significant amount of DPS against High AC targets, pulling them behind the Human and Halfling considerably.

/end STR based Monks

Halfling Ninja Spy(as all others are assumed to be Shintao for healability and responsibility) deals more DPS on certain targets than any other monk, but this damage is purely situational. Halflings tend to be DEX based and have significantly lower DPS when they have aggro than any other type of Monk.

[Jaid314]

i'm a little unclear here... which "too many drawbacks" does the dwarf have that makes them not even an option?

i mean, i'm looking at it, can't be the stats (charisma isn't that big a deal to lose), can't be the enhancements (better stunning fist DC, more toughness, good constitution stats)... so ummm... what is it that makes you say dwarf is a terrible monk? i'm just not seeing it. they get a bonus to a stat that is at least semi-important for monks (i mean, con is important for every class pretty much, and at least as much so for a monk if not more), their racial stuff isn't all absolutely amazing (they get no benefit out of axe stuff or armor stuff), but i'm just not seeing anything when i look at the race to make me say "wow, that really sucks so bad that i couldn't even consider taking dwarf as a race".

[AylinIsAwesome]

i'm a little unclear here... which "too many drawbacks" does the dwarf have that makes them not even an option?

i mean, i'm looking at it, can't be the stats (charisma isn't that big a deal to lose), can't be the enhancements (better stunning fist DC, more toughness, good constitution stats)... so ummm... what is it that makes you say dwarf is a terrible monk? i'm just not seeing it. they get a bonus to a stat that is at least semi-important for monks (i mean, con is important for every class pretty much, and at least as much so for a monk if not more), their racial stuff isn't all absolutely amazing (they get no benefit out of axe stuff or armor stuff), but i'm just not seeing anything when i look at the race to make me say "wow, that really sucks so bad that i couldn't even consider taking dwarf as a race".

Dwarf can make a fine Monk, but pretty much everything they get, Warforged gets too. While Dwarf won't suffer the -2 WIS penalty, it's not that bad (my Human Monk started with 10 WIS back before ToD has a save and she does fine, though I do plan to TR her with some more WIS when I see what Ninja Spy 3 will be), and Warforged gets the Power Attack enhancements which boost DPS a ton.

[komeback]

You can make a powerful monk out of human , dwarf, halfling , or horc. I am not sold on Wf anything a monk can do as a Wf I feel they would do it better as dwarf. Monks can't us the pa and drowning is a joke. Never taking neg lvl's is nice but neg lvl's have never been an issue for me. Not a big enough one to give up normal healing and not having to waste enhancement points or feats to be healed properly.

Humans made the best str based monk before horc came out but still really powerful

Halflings are great for lvling I have my monk tr'ed as halfling dex right now and it is alot of fun when you can buff the heck out if yourself your almost untouchable. But IMO the damage is situational and endgame or anything you have a group or are in a raid for ac is worthless. I just don't see this as a very good epic build and that's what my goal is now. So great fun class if you like to solo alot .


Horc can't argue with 4 extra str not much else real huge to me for horc but I'll take 2 more to attack bonus and damage. It's going to be my final tr as soon as I finish my halfling tr. If horc had a tactics line they would be gods of monks but they don't so I just take what I can get.

[AylinIsAwesome]

You can make a powerful monk out of human , dwarf, halfling , or horc. I am not sold on Wf anything a monk can do as a Wf I feel they would do it better as dwarf. Monks can't us the pa and drowning is a joke. Never taking neg lvl's is nice but neg lvl's have never been an issue for me. Not a big enough one to give up normal healing and not having to waste enhancement points or feats to be healed properly.

Warforged Power Attack is equivalent to +6 STR, as long as you're hitting. That's a lot better long-term DPS than anything a Human could give you.

[Creeper]

I am not sold on Wf anything a monk can do as a Wf I feel they would do it better as dwarf. Monks can't us the pa and drowning is a joke. Never taking neg lvl's is nice but neg lvl's have never been an issue for me. Not a big enough one to give up normal healing and not having to waste enhancement points or feats to be healed properly.

Why can't monks use the power attack? My WF monk seemed to make good use of it a couple of lives ago. There are no feats for WF healing BTW.

Also, WF are much better at using docents, being buffed by warchanters, taking fortification penalties, being immune to paralysis, negating the fort save penalties from crane path, grabbing aggro, and being healed by arcanes than dwarves are.

[frznvimes]

i'm a little unclear here... which "too many drawbacks" does the dwarf have that makes them not even an option?

You won't find it by looking at stats, abilities, and enhancements. It's not really their fault.


edit: bonny monk lasses

[lethargos]

I like my wisdexninjaspyhalfling@lvl16, good synergy though feeling ap starved all the time. My warforged is also great, going the str way with him (only lvl9 atm, but liking immunities and tac enhancements to both stunning fist and blow). As wf im using jidz-bracers in firestance for easier ki generation and the healing amp. Have to admit i havent needed the heals yet ,but with healers friend and monk heal amp divine healing should be ok.

[Soleran]

Warforged Power Attack is equivalent to +6 STR, as long as you're hitting. That's a lot better long-term DPS than anything a Human could give you.

Right as long as you're able to take a minus 3 to hit which means another plus 6 str to make up for what you lost for that damage boost.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Right as long as you're able to take a minus 3 to hit which means another plus 6 str to make up for what you lost for that damage boost.

There are only a handful of Epic mobs I can think of where the to-hit would be an issue, and someone using a Rahl's Might on them pretty much fixes the issue.

[Soleran]

There are only a handful of Epic mobs I can think of where the to-hit would be an issue, and someone using a Rahl's Might on them pretty much fixes the issue.

Right, I'm simply pointing out both sides to WF PA which also includes HOrc PA as well.

[Jaid314]

You won't find it by looking at stats, abilities, and enhancements. It's not really their fault.

see, basically, here's my thinking... if i won't find it anywhere, then it isn't there. if you can't point to something and say "here's why dwarf makes a terrible monk", then you have no real point to make. i'm going to need a better reason for dwarf monks being ineffective than just the fact that dwarf monks are ineffective.

but here's a few things to consider about dwarf as compared to warforged: they get +2 wisdom over a warforged. disease immunity comes with the class anyways, poison immunity is trivial to find in a clicky, water breathing is not a significant factor, paralysis immunity is likely something that will be handed out when needed anyways via freedom of movement.

a dwarf (especially a light path monk dwarf) can heal themselves much more easily than a warforged can. dwarf gets a bonus to balance (meaning you can spend less skill points there, and put it elsewhere), a bonus to AC vs giants (situationally very useful), and +2 to save vs spells (so the few that you aren't immune to anyways via buffs, you're more likely to resist). dwarf can wear robes/outfits (which is about as much of an advantage as the ability to wear docents... by which i mean, who cares?)

you're pretty much looking at the only particularly important advantage to warforged being immunity to negative energy drain effects... for which you can wear assorted items (the silver flame necklace being the simplest to get) or use buffs to prevent (such as death ward, unless you're facing beholders, in which case we're back to the necklace)... and power attack. not by any means insignificant, but i'm having a hard time looking at this and seeing dwarf as being so unimaginably horrible for the monk class that it's not even worth considering.

better at getting healed by arcanes? what a joke. i'd rather be better at being healed by the class that signed up to be an actual healing class, and which is actually paying any attention at all to my hit points in the first place. about the only time my arcane ever heals *any* warforge (other than himself, in the case of my wizard) is in raids where there is a specific healing curse and the tank is a warforged being reconstructed to bypass the curse, or in downtime when i'm specifically asked to (presuming i even get around to it before an actual healer takes care of it). arcane healing is a massive advantage for an arcane caster, but it's not going to make a huge difference for a monk (unless you're building to tank certain end-game raid bosses. i won't say it's impossible, but i've never seen a VoD or ToD run with a monk sully tank, for example. which also applies to generating hate... so what if they're better at generating hate. i don't *want* to generate hate, i want to beat the **** out of my target)

i'm not hearing anything yet to make me think dwarf is going to be utterly gimp here. the power attack option on a warforged is something to consider, but i don't think it even comes close to invalidating dwarf as a choice.

[frznvimes]

see, basically, here's my thinking... if i won't find it anywhere, then it isn't there. if you can't point to something and say "here's why dwarf makes a terrible monk", then you have no real point to make. i'm going to need a better reason for dwarf monks being ineffective than just the fact that dwarf monks are ineffective.

Okay, I'll expound upon my wonderful and elegant argument.


They're terribly...


*points to picture*


...short and ugly.