Shadow Mage - The Build

[Ghoste]

Ok, so not so many people are satisfied with just a general idea or philosophy. I get it, not everybody thinks the same way. Some people can more concretely see than others where such an idea points. So here is the updated version of my shadow mage.

There are a few changes to the original version. Most noticeably in the starting stats.
Str: starting dropped from 10 to 8. With tomes being easier to get, it's not as big a deal to raise it two points that way. Alternatively, -2 str isn't a big deal for your carrying capacity.
Wis: starting dropped from 8 to 6. Warforged immunities before level 12 already made will saves not a huge deal. The woeforged immunities after that make will save completely useless.
Con: the above 2 points free up enough to boost this to 18.

I also added a list of ideal equipment. Sanura's band will of course take an additional +2 intelligence upgrade, and the dragontouched docent will have: +6 Dex, +3 Dex skills, Greater Elemental Energy. This is a stealth docent, I swap it out for my epic Docent of Shadow for the extra pale master goodness.

Why pale master and not archmage? I'm not going to go too much into this, but suffice it to say I believe even for non stealthy play that the pale master is far superior to the archmage. Don't aske me why, I have my reasons. Of course the stealthy play though just pushes it that much over the top for me.

Ok, so now for the specifics: (comments in red in the build frame)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Shadow Mage 
Level 20 Neutral Evil Warforged Male
(20 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 304            with items and modified con, this should be over 400< close to 500 with lich form and rage
Spell Points: 1815      over 2300 with final int and items
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 16      don't feel like calculating the final numbers for either fort or reflex, both around 30
Will: 10     who cares?

                  Starting          
Abilities        Base Stats         
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          
Strength              8             
Dexterity            14             
Constitution         18  (+2 enh, +6 item, +2 tome) = 28
Intelligence         18     (+5 level, +3 enh, +9 ring, +3 tome, +2 cap) = 40
Wisdom                6             
Charisma              6             

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20

                   Ending           
                 Base Skills        
Skills           (Level 20)         
Balance              13     (+3 dex, +4 GH, +15 item, +3 DT docent, +2 luck) = 40 immune to titan slam
Bluff                -2             
Concentration        29      (+4 con, +4 GH, +15 item, +2 luck) = 54
Diplomacy            -2             
Disable Device      n/a             
Haggle                9             
Heal                 -2             
Hide                 13        (+3 dex, +3 DT docent, +15 item, +2 luck, +4 GH, +20 invis) = 60
Intimidate           -2             
Jump                  8             
Listen               -2             
Move Silently        13    (+3 dex, +3 DT docent, +15 item, +2 luck, +4 GH, +20 wraith) = 60
 Open Lock            n/a            
Perform             n/a             
Repair               10             
Search               10             
Spot                  9        (+15 item, +3 wis, +4 GH, +2 luck) = 33 for spotting monsters. May find it enough at times, but occasionally not enough.
Swim                 -1             
Tumble               11             
Use Magic Device    n/a             

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Sanura's Band \par Eerie Belt \par Dragoncrafted Docent \par Conner's Pendant \par Minos Legens \par Head of Good Fortune \par Dustless Boots \par  \par Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness  (or spell penetration)
Bonus Feat: Fleshling Death
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Hardiness I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation II


Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II


Level 7 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Enlarge Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III


Level 11 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith


Level 13 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich


Level 14 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 17 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III


Level 19 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness (or greater spell penetration)
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering II

For the stealth skills, 60 is more than high enough for epic. Even a 40 hide is good enough for monsters with see invisibility. For some reason monsters in DDO universally have higher listen skill than spot skill. So even though 40 hide is high enough for epic, 40 ms definitely is not.

For those not familiar with this build, it stands up great to other wizard builds that are designed for party grouping, and is one of the most solid solo builds as well. Before you make a comment about how this build doesn't fit into parties, or ask why I would build a character build that isn't perfectly suited for every single player in the game (I got that one on YouTube), or about how this build is all play style, please first take a moment and punch your stupid self in the face. Then please be so kind as to leave this thread alone for people who have something well thought out to say.

[sirdanile]

For the stealth skills, 60 is more than high enough for epic. Even a 40 hide is good enough for monsters with see invisibility. For some reason monsters in DDO universally have higher listen skill than spot skill. So even though 40 hide is high enough for epic, 40 ms definitely is not.

For those not familiar with this build, it stands up great to other wizard builds that are designed for party grouping, and is one of the most solid solo builds as well. Before you make a comment about how this build doesn't fit into parties, or ask why I would build a character build that isn't perfectly suited for every single player in the game (I got that one on YouTube), or about how this build is all play style, please first take a moment and punch your stupid self in the face. Then please be so kind as to leave this thread alone for people who have something well thought out to say.

Thanks for the stealth skill numbers... and for saying the punch yourself in the face thing.

Good build, good playstyle, Great player. Nuff said.

[karnokvolrath]

Thanks for the Info, im totally sold on stealth mages, exspecially pale masters.

With the huge surviabilty, good damage, and the options to be stealthy and still good as a CC i dont see why everyone doesnt play these.

I see alot more sprouting up in the guild everyday.

Not to derial at all but i also beleave 2 levels of rogue for evasion and being epic trapper in combonation with the pale master/stealth is just amazing.

Not to mention with masters touch/docent of shadow/a decent STR/torq/co/op item you can instantly go from a stealth caster to a support melee or even a full on agro controller for almost all trash mobs in the game.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

So I know you have been playing this for a while, so this is not intended as a suggestion, but rather a question as I try to gain insight into this build, and arcanes in general.

Why not take two levels of rogue? Because of the capstone?

I am looking at this from a solo standpoint, so that may be why, I also am not familiar with end game, as I play PD.

Seems like having the rogue levels would not only let you get trap skills, but also have higher sneaking capabilities and evasion.

Just curious as to why you went pure and also what you do to negate the threat that traps pose when soloing.


Thanks for taking the time to post more about your build, and also for taking the time to answer my questions.

[Hobgoblin]

hey ghoste

been a while since i ran one of these. what would you do for stat on a double tr?

hob

[Ghoste]

hey ghoste

been a while since i ran one of these. what would you do for stat on a double tr?

hob

Interesting point you bring up with that question.

I hate grinding. This build is able to completely avoid the Shroud - the biggest and most obnoxious quest grind in this game. TR'ing is also a huge grind, and the benefits are small enough that for my play style and my needs. I won't do it. I got ridiculously lucky grinding out my DT docent as quickly as I did.

But, if I did have an extra 4 points, wisdom and charisma are obviously out of the question. If I had a +3 con tome, I'd put starting con to 19. In fact I'd do that even if I didn't have a +3 tome. It would free up that second warforged constitution enhancement for something else until I did get a +3 tome.

[Ghoste]

Talltale, for PD play, I can see wanting higher sneak because of not being able to get the items. For players using the auction house and grinding out raids though, your stealth will be more than high enough for anything. Especially once you hit lvl 12 and get that wraith form.

Your reflex will be high enough for most traps. Spells wont be a big deal with the right buffs. I personally rely on twitch skill with most traps, plus the fact that I don't go into quests blind very often like many PD players do. Not to mention putting off the pale master enhancements which are, in my opinion, huge.

[Xaearth]

So I know you have been playing this for a while, so this is not intended as a suggestion, but rather a question as I try to gain insight into this build, and arcanes in general.

Why not take two levels of rogue? Because of the capstone?

IMO, one of the greatest strengths of the Shadow Mage is how good it is at "stealthing" into groups.
By going pure wizard, you maintain the full casting capabilities of a wizard (including, but not limited to spell pen, spell slots available, enhancements).

The pure build is awesome for solo play, but when it comes to it, it is indistinguishable from any other pure wizzy in group play...
Until **** hits the fan, and you do a super stealthy trip to the nearest shrine with your party members in your backpack.

PS: Thanks again for your contributions to the stealthy way of life Ghoste. Thanks to your teachings/advice/videos (and MrCow too) I was able to solo Claw of Vulkoor on epic with my Shadow Mage to get the last fragments I needed to epicify some Mabar event gear at the last minute.

[notroh]

Ghoste:

I am still quite new at the game - do not take anything amiss, you have a lot of knowledge and I would like to borrow much of it.

I think this is an amazing build, I have watched many of your videos and have learned quite a lot from them.

If you wish to answer the questions I would greatly appreciate the answers.

Thank you for the information about the Hide and Move Silently skills.

Questions (so many):

Why not use a 10 str and 12 dex and then at level 7 use a +2 tome ?

Why did you take Toughness at 6 and not at level 1 - would you not benefit more or does the high con make up for this at lower levels?

Why Insightful Reflexes at 15 and not earlier?

I also wondered why you did not take 2 levels of rogue ?

Are Traps not a problem for this character - would they be if you did not know where they were located ?

Why so many point into Tumble or do they just come as you level up, since you only need one to make it work ?

Thanks for fleshing out the build more.

notroh

[Ghoste]

Notroh, take the feats at whatever level you want. No offense, but it's these kinds of questions that made me take so long and feel so hesitant to post the full actual build.

"Why not use a 10 str and 12 dex and then at level 7 use a +2 tome ?"If you're going to use a +2 tome, why necessarily a dex tome? Amounts to the same thing, unless you're talking about using two tomes. Both stats work out the same way in the end, right? If you have a dex tome but not a str tome, I'm sure you can do the math and make it work for yourself without me holding your hand.

Already answered the bit about why not two levels of rogue.

Tumble is handy for freeing up a feather fall slot. Also very nice when grinding the Reaver raid over and over to get that Head of Good Fortune.

Traps - depends what difficulty. Normal and hard you'll be fine as long as you don't rush. Elite and epic, let a party member go first, or do it first on normal to learn where the traps are. Cast jump, GH and rage on yourself and bounce through the traps.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Talltale, for PD play, I can see wanting higher sneak because of not being able to get the items. For players using the auction house and grinding out raids though, your stealth will be more than high enough for anything. Especially once you hit lvl 12 and get that wraith form.

Your reflex will be high enough for most traps. Spells wont be a big deal with the right buffs. I personally rely on twitch skill with most traps, plus the fact that I don't go into quests blind very often like many PD players do. Not to mention putting off the pale master enhancements which are, in my opinion, huge.

Ghoste, thanks for the quick response! In the Sublime we allow the AH, though I personally try to not use it very much, and was very interested in making a solo PD build to basically be along the line's of Ron's solo DDO project, but PD - which would disallow use of the AH. That said if I make this toon, I will probably never raid. I've chased end game content in other MMOs and it ruined the games for me.

So would you recommend doing the rogue splash for PD, or do you think that its reflex save is good enough to not warrant that?

[Ghoste]

So would you recommend doing the rogue splash for PD, or do you think that its reflex save is good enough to not warrant that?

No. The reflex saves are good enough for spells. The traps are up to you. Depends on your twitch.

[furbyoats]

never really considered approaching a caster this way.

i think you presented me with a new build to try out in the near future. this playstyle is far from my norm but something i would like to try out.

appreciate the info man

[QuantumEntanglement]

First off, since you took the time to renew the thread, let me just thank you. I was a typical learning player of melees, just starting to come into my own with a couple of workable AC builds. Somewhere between powergamer and casual, I didn't run to rush to cap and raid over and over, but still did the regular Shroud grind and looked to squeezing that extra bit out of my characters. Just as I was poised to tackle the grinding road to all the rare AC goodies, Turbine eviscerates one of the cores of D&D that made this MMO unique, the AC and to hit system, and moves one step closer to bland conformity with grazing hits.

With out even having gotten to enjoy the benefits of the first serious character I had planned myself towards a tough but attainable goal, they rendered it obsolete. They didn't move the goal posts, they bulldozed over them and salted the field. I left the game with no intention of coming back and would have never returned. But one day, a couple months later, I found a build in the folder of saves for Ron's character planner. I had, ever since downloading it, become a build tweaking addict. I spent hours on some nights just messing around and looking up abilities only to toss an idea or retool an old one.

It was an idea for a monk splashed shadowmage. They get the stealth skills as class skills and evasion in two levels just like rogue. Even with int high, experimenting showed me unable to maintain both trap skills (search, disarm) at full and the stealth skills too. I had come to the conclusion it had to be a choice. The build I found was the one where I went monk for the extra feats and evasion in lieu of the trap skills. It was made, but never rolled or played. I never played a caster before.

I like a number of others was inspired by your original thread introducing the concept of stealth magery. Even before I found DDO (my first MMO), I also played strategy games. Even before the middle finger of grazing hits, I had started to weary of the regular "rush it, kill it, loot, repeat" prevalent playstyle everyone learns. I watched the videos and it was clear to me immediately. In a very real way, Turbine owes you for at least one customer giving them another shot. I have done things with this character solo I was in wiped groups trying to do on my melees. I've learned more playing this way in the last several months than in the first two and a half months I've been playing.

Sorry for my crit wall of text attack (it's a fleshy defense mechanism). Just wanted to thank you for opening my eyes to a whole new game. Don't listen to the haters. They're just jaded and don't get it. Oh and if they ever add warforged halflings, er, scouts, I might even make a toaster character for the first time.

[Hobgoblin]

on the same topic ghoste what advantages does a wizard have over a sorc in this type of build?

hob

[MrCow]

(+15 item, +3 wis, +4 GH, +2 luck) = 33 for spotting monsters

Just to highlight, this tends to be the weak facet for a pure wizard with stealthy intentions. It is often enough to detect hidden things on Normal difficulty, but this is just a heads-up to folks reading through the thread that there are times it simply isn't enough for higher difficulties (Monastery of the Scorpion on Elite, Bastion of Power on Hard, and other quests one might try there hand as stealth while leveling such as Missing in Action or sections of Purge the Fallen Shrine).

[notroh]

Ghoste:

Thank you for taking time to answer the questions. Did not mean to bombard you with so many.

I have not played a caster at all, thus all the questions. All my characters have been of the melee type.

Not familiar with the Warforged, but I do have access to them, just wish they were a wee bit smaller in size.

Again many thanks for posting the build and your patience.

notroh

[Ghoste]

Just to highlight, this tends to be the weak facet for a pure wizard with stealthy intentions. It is often enough to detect hidden things on Normal difficulty, but this is just a heads-up to folks reading through the thread that there are times it simply isn't enough for higher difficulties (Monastery of the Scorpion on Elite, Bastion of Power on Hard, and other quests one might try there hand as stealth while leveling such as Missing in Action or sections of Purge the Fallen Shrine).

That is a good point that I will add to my comment after the spot skill.

[Ghoste]

on the same topic ghoste what advantages does a wizard have over a sorc in this type of build?

hob

1st of all Stealth. That high intelligence makes it way easier to get the skill points on a wizard. It isn't impossible, but you're really spread thin on a stealthy sorc.

2nd - I absolutely love Pale Master. Even the archmage has to spen a few spell points, though very little, to use their spell like abilities. Pale masters use health, which is constantly regenerating thanks to death aura. More pale masters in a group means the quicker your health regens too.

[khaldan]

2nd - I absolutely love Pale Master. Even the archmage has to spen a few spell points, though very little, to use their spell like abilities. Pale masters use health, which is constantly regenerating thanks to death aura. More pale masters in a group means the quicker your health regens too.

Have you ever had problems stealthing around with death aura on? It would seem like a slight misstep would hit something and make it fairly angry at you.