Major Nerf to DoS Coming

[AylinIsAwesome]

Next question thou is how this stack with the 10%/15%/20% Incite of the Dragontouched and other items.

Sirgog said a while ago in his Soul Survivor Thread that he thought they stacked in a multiplicative fashion, and I tend to agree with him.


So Brute Fighting 1, Divine Righteousness, the ToD set bonus, and the Epic Claw bonus would give a total threat of ~300%.

[stoolcannon]

Same here. Instead of hate generation from strikes, perhaps they should make you have an aura that incites hate and draws aggro to you without hitting, because of the slowed movement.

I agree. They can also name it intimidate.

[Ralmeth]

On the one hand it's nice to see that the hate generation will finally work, and it's also nice to know I don't have to hit my divine righteousness button regularly, but on the other hand why is the hate generation being scaled back so much? It definitely seems like the hate generation modifier from DoS should be higher.

Edit: To be clear to the developers. I do not like this proposed change.

[SiliconShadow]

I do not think that the proposed change could keep agro effectively vs a raged barbarian for example, unless how we perceive the way the threat generation will work?

[krud]

Right now, you can get better threat generation through investing in 6 paladin levels (divine righteousness) than you can gain from 18 levels of fighter or paladin.

good thing I only took 6 pal on my 12ftr/6pal/2rog stalwart-HotD .

seriously, this will probably ensure that I switch him over to kensai2 whenever I get back to playing him.

[sweez]

Just a quick note - Madstone Rage stacks with defensive stances (at least it does with the Stalwart stance), you just have to get madstoned before you go into stance.

The fact that CE now prohibits any rage, including Madstone, and dispels it on entering CE, now THAT'S a problem.

[Hokonoso]

I suspect that what we're going to see is some way in which intimidate will enhance threat generation, and that that's why they gave intimidate to the paladin class as they intimated it was key to their future goals of overhauling the intimidate playstyle to be more interesting and fun.


Nonetheless, right now, it really blows, and its more ******** that wf and half orcs racially get larger threat enhancements than specialist prestige lines.

if they turned intimidate to taunt and made it work like it does in WoW, im sure people would stop complaining, taunt is far more useful than anything we have here because it doesnt just give you aggro for 6 seconds, it puts you on top of the threat list regardless of where you were before (ie if you die, you can taunt and be back at top), so if someone pulls aggro, he can simply stop attacking and have a tank taunt and wait a while before attacking again.

[noinfo]

So, currently the Defender of Siberys Stances are supposed to grant hate generation in tiers of 50%/100%/200% while active. Of course, they are broken right now. But according to the Lamannia release notes from 11-5-10, the stances are fixed, but being changed to only grant 25%/33%/50% and this bonus is being typed as a Sacred Bonus. Furthermore, Divine Righteousness is now also typed as a Sacred Bonus, meaning it won't stack with the stances.

Double-Yew Tee Eff.

I hope they are really reworking how hate is generated then. I thought these stances were supposed to allow S/B to be able to hold agro against heavy hitters. 50% is not going to cut it at all or be even close. Add to that that those defensive tanks are very gear strapped for space for hate generating items, this is not a good idea at all.

[Therilith]

I always envisioned paladins being hate tanks, which is why I was so surprised when they gave them intimidate. It seemed like a permanent band-aid instead of a proper fix.

[Tom_Hunters]

Doesn't make much sense to me the expensive stance (in terms of feats, AP and turn undead) will now override the low level ability.

Maybe I will suggest this:
Defenders of Siberys stance provide no hate over good mobs, a certain extra hate to neutral mobs and much extra hate to evil mobs and >100% hate to mobs with "overwhelming aura of evil".

It will fit the class, be easy to implement (shintao is doing this) and satisfies the players (extra hate to evil is good, bonus extra to demons/devil/undead = very good)

and let divine righteousness stay not stacked as it is.

[Ralmeth]

I hope they are really reworking how hate is generated then. I thought these stances were supposed to allow S/B to be able to hold agro against heavy hitters. 50% is not going to cut it at all or be even close. Add to that that those defensive tanks are very gear strapped for space for hate generating items, this is not a good idea at all.

My thoughts exactly...

[Asketes]

Between this and Paladins getting Intim as a class skill I suppose we're just expected to sit there and shield block like all the other tanks now

you mean have DPS like all the other tanks right?


cuz that's what a tank is, DPS and HP

[TheDearLeader]

you mean have DPS like all the other tanks right?


cuz that's what a tank is, DPS and HP

Definition of TANK
1
dialect : pond, pool; especially : one built as a water supply
2
: a usually large receptacle for holding, transporting, or storing liquids (as water or fuel)
3
: an enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle that moves on tracks
4
: a prison cell or enclosure used especially for receiving prisoners

Merriam Webster tends to disagree.

I don't play DoS, KotC tasty damage ftw. I've LRed, have Intimidate as a class skill. Guild was doing an Epic Chronoscope last night, I was Intimidating to keep the big bad facing my way, but then I stopped... and realized that I didn't need to, because I already had established Hate via DPS. The parts where I turtled up were less productive, as I wasn't contributing to the party's Deeps, and healing was similar either way. (masses on the party and such).

So... perhaps with DoS, pop on the Divine Righteousness, pull out the Dual Epic Chaosblades or whatever tasty stuff you use, and go crazy? I dunno. Just tossing stuff out there.

[Battlehawke]

Soooooooooo..... They are nerfing something that no one thinks works? .....and are fixing it so that it finally does work? I'll bet at some point they turned it off because it was overpowered. There is some aggro in game that is triggered by "auras", so Pally's automatically get aggro just by being in the vicinity..... Hey at least they are doing something to make it work...finally.


Thanks
Battlehawke

[Asketes]

Merriam Webster tends to disagree.

a) I was just messing with the thread, didn't mean much by it (that's why all the )





Now on to my real statement:

Every day hundreds of discoveries are defined, yet it's our combined relative reality that usually ends up writing the history books.


Wonder if anyone will get the "head fake" in my Philosophical profession above.

[TheDearLeader]

a) I was just messing with the thread, didn't mean much by it (that's why all the )

Yeah maybe I shoulda put a smilie face. I was trying to be funny. Guess that didn't work. /wrists

[Sirea]

Soooooooooo..... They are nerfing something that no one thinks works? .....and are fixing it so that it finally does work? I'll bet at some point they turned it off because it was overpowered. There is some aggro in game that is triggered by "auras", so Pally's automatically get aggro just by being in the vicinity..... Hey at least they are doing something to make it work...finally.


Thanks
Battlehawke

The thing is is that an enhancement that can be gotten at level 6 generates more hate than a Tier III Prestige class and will not stack with said PrE (Divine Righteousness). And I've never heard that pallies can get aggro simply from their Auras before.

[Asketes]

Yeah maybe I shoulda put a smilie face. I was trying to be funny. Guess that didn't work. /wrists

fair enough!

[Kinerd]

They might stack. Consider the case of Inspire Competence, which claims to provide a +2 competence bonus and therefore ought not to stack with the competence bonus gear available to characters, but does. Judging from the release notes, they have not explicitly stated that Righteousness and DoS will not stack. It would be incredibly annoying to try and test it, though, so I hope they explicitly state either way which it is.

[AylinIsAwesome]

They might stack. Consider the case of Inspire Competence, which claims to provide a +2 competence bonus and therefore ought not to stack with the competence bonus gear available to characters, but does. Judging from the release notes, they have not explicitly stated that Righteousness and DoS will not stack. It would be incredibly annoying to try and test it, though, so I hope they explicitly state either way which it is.

Most bonuses of the same type though do not stack.