Castrers have to know

[Lord_WC]

Just by reading your retort I get the feeling a melee hireling would be a better bet than your melee character

I don't have non-TRd melees. This means I don't have any melees that cannot give themselves a buff they REALLY want Everything else is not required, I really don't break a sweat about it.

My biggest problem was with the tone of the replies. In most high-end content casters are buffers. Now imagine an elite VOD where a caster says sorry I won't buff when the party stands before Horoth. Time, resources wasted, and I can't post an lfm that I want an arcane with haste/blur/gh/RE/PE/rec/OID, etc, etc. I'm sorry but these are taken as granted. And also, I really want to know beforehand who are those casters which think they do us a favor by buffing, hence the blacklist.

And what I find most ridicolous that I actually have to tell why is it wrong that a caster doesn't buff. Because most of the high-end content cannot be run alone, not by melee, not by caster, not by divine. They are all needed, so behave accordingly. Melees shouldn't ask for unneeded buffs, and anyone who has the buffs should hand them out.

Just to be fair, I would be upset on a melee if he whines that stupid caster didn't give him GH and didn't kept him displaced during p1 of shroud

[voodoogroves]

Buffing takes time.

Time is the most constrained resource in the game.

Buffing through a single entity takes longer than everyone self-buffing. If you have critical buffs, manage them on the fly.

[PCNONSENSE]

Just by reading your retort I get the feeling a melee hireling would be a better bet than your melee character

/signed

[taurean430]

if evryone followed this why would there be casters? if evryone would just carry there own gh/haste and stun item an tempest doin some manyshot simply does more.



first of all hes not talking about the mass spell. all mass spells are better then the single spells cus its faster. thats the main reason u cast mass protect elements and not resists.
its FASTER and easyer.
resist is by far better the only problem is that its single target and the differnt resists share the same timer, wich makes it time costly and annoying.

good advice ilgriffo. now try them to convince to haste alil more

My ranger can cast gh (item), elemental resists, true sight (scroll), rams, rage... well, the point is made. It's nice when someone else in the party decides to save him item charges/consumable scrolls. Yet if it wasn't cast on him he's not dead in the water either. In DQ2 for example, people forget to cast these things on others. It's better to have the ability to provide it for yourself. Casters in that raid have other uses for their spell points. I might not agree with the reasons, but I am not less effective either.

My bard frequently gets skipped over in TOD for elemental resists. After the first experience in this, I made sure I could provide them for myself. Haven't had an issue since.

Somewhere in there it looks like you are suggesting that resists are too cumbersome to cast. I don't agree with that, but for my toons that are vulnerable to spike elemental damage, I make sure I have some way of trying to mitigate it for myself. In some parties, these things are provided. In other parties, you don't get anything. Rather than browbeat another player about it I've personally found it better to provide for oneself.

The other side of the coin is interesting as well. I've run into players while on my divines/arcanes that ask for unnecessary buffage. If you give into that every time, you find yourself unable to fufill your expected role in the quest. There has to be a balance of things, but not all players are interested in balance. It's one of the reasons why self sufficiency is a powerful thing.

[samthedagger]

While I agree with the OP that resist energy is a great spell, protection from elements is still an incredibly valuable spell. Given the choice, I prefer resist energy most of the time, but there are occasions where protection from elements is better. Both are best, but not always worthwhile at low levels. After you begin to run Gianthold, and on a handful of quests before that, having resist energy is practically vital if not at least strongly recommended.

Casters need to know about when and where resist energy and protection from elements are needed/useful. But unfortunately for the OP, most everyone who knows enough to come to the forums knows enough about the game to realize this already.

[Llewndyn]

No, I meant I don't run off from the party to haste/rage myself why leaving them out of it. And that I give them gh, no matter what. It doesn't cost me anything and helps them complete faster, better xp/min, less deaths/breaks, again, better xp/min.

First you are complaining because a caster didn't have a spell you want. Then you talk about how you don't run off and cast stuff on yourself and how it doesnt cost you anything. Well it costs casters to cast resist energy. And I dunno about you, but the amount of time it takes to cast usually only 2 people in the party are patient enough to wait for all that, usually the rest assume you are done (even if you say otherwise) and run off. If the caster or casters you are talking about in the OP are casting resist on themselves and running off to do it, they suck and should be ridiculed, but the gist of your post was closer to "They don't have everything I need to stay alive so they suck" and that's a different matter.

[Thriand]

In most high-end content casters are buffers.

[Rav'n]

Yesterday I experience again what is getting me crazy. Casters who do not know what spells are for.

I would like to introduce you to the spell:
RESIST ENERGY
It is a 2nd lv spells avaible to all caster and it gives an ally limited protection from an elemental damage type. At lv 11 it grants 30 resistance to a single elemental.

It is just a second lv spell but it can be far better then:
Protection from Energy 3th lv spell
or
Protection from Elements 5th lv spell

those two spells grants Protection till the maximus of 120 points of elementals damage are not exceeded, then it ends.
the first one, Resist Energy, eleminate the first 30 points of elemental damage for every single incoming elelmental damage and it last till the end of the spell duration (or till dispelled)

So SP wise, in a quest full of elemnetal everage damage (so no spike of ellemetal damage), the second lv one is way better.

:::::::::::::::::

Now that you all know about it plz stop casting mass elementals protection when it is not necessary, it is a waste of SP for no gain (not necesary only your SP but also the healer one or wands/pots). ty

Okay... first... why are we making Elementals harder to kill? I mean c'mon, you want to give them resistance BEFORE we fight them?

And now you're tell me there a quest that's FULL of Elemnetals, Damaging people? I've never done this quest...without spoiling it for me, can someone tell me which house it's in? Maybe someone can Sharez?

[systemstate]

I also prefer resists over protection in most quests. Not because protection isn't better, but because realistically a lot of casters will only buff with this spell once and it can quickly run out- leaving me completely unprotected.

At least resist stays active for a much longer period, thereby providing some elemental damage reduction for most if not all of the quest. It would be great if buffers got in the habit of refreshing protection from elements regularly, but many don't.

I'm also a big proponent of self-sufficiency, and carry stacks of pots and clickies with me. It should be mentioned that the resist and protection potions from vendors pale in comparison with high-level buffers because of the level difference.

A store-bought resist is what, level 5? Meridia might carry resist 20's, but I can't remember.

[systemstate]

And now you're tell me there a quest that's FULL of Elemnetals, Damaging people? I've never done this quest...without spoiling it for me, can someone tell me which house it's in? Maybe someone can Sharez?

Here's two:

Taming the Flames- House K
Enter the Kobold - Reaver's Refuge

[Heronous]

I don't have non-TRd melees. This means I don't have any melees that cannot give themselves a buff they REALLY want Everything else is not required, I really don't break a sweat about it.

My biggest problem was with the tone of the replies. In most high-end content casters are buffers. Now imagine an elite VOD where a caster says sorry I won't buff when the party stands before Horoth. Time, resources wasted, and I can't post an lfm that I want an arcane with haste/blur/gh/RE/PE/rec/OID, etc, etc. I'm sorry but these are taken as granted. And also, I really want to know beforehand who are those casters which think they do us a favor by buffing, hence the blacklist.

And what I find most ridicolous that I actually have to tell why is it wrong that a caster doesn't buff. Because most of the high-end content cannot be run alone, not by melee, not by caster, not by divine. They are all needed, so behave accordingly. Melees shouldn't ask for unneeded buffs, and anyone who has the buffs should hand them out.

Just to be fair, I would be upset on a melee if he whines that stupid caster didn't give him GH and didn't kept him displaced during p1 of shroud

Man I have never found Horoth in VOD

[NUDS]

On my Monk, I carry "Greater X Resistance" robes/cloaks, for each element(equivalent to 30 res, with the benefit of being non-dispellable). I also carry Protection Against X clickies (5 charges, 50 damage negated per charge).

It also helps if you know that quest X will be Y element damage-heavy, so you can prepare in advance, buying Protection Against X potions if needed and popping the clickies prior to the elemental encounter.


On my arcane (Baby Wiz), which I aptly named "Pewpewnuds", meaning I blow stuff up, I buff when needed.
That means when I know X part of the quest will have Y elemental damage I will try to buff the people that needs them with the appropriate buffs.

But then again, I always run with "Zerg/BYOH" groups so everyone is self-sufficient.

If I wanted to be a buffbot, I would have named my arcane "Buffbotnuds"


Obviously this is for low-mid content. In raids and end-game stuff, where I would imagine elemental damage comes in in lethal quantities, self-buffing using wands/clickies/potions obviously won't be enough. This is probably where arcane/divine buffing can make or break encounters.

[Llewndyn]

I don't have non-TRd melees. This means I don't have any melees that cannot give themselves a buff they REALLY want Everything else is not required, I really don't break a sweat about it.

My biggest problem was with the tone of the replies. In most high-end content casters are buffers. wrong. Casters are buffers early on because they don't have the great damage spells they have in endgame content. If you think casters are there solely to buff either you do not know what a caster does or you have played with some crappy casters. Try ANY quest with large mobs and have the caster ONLY buff and you needlessly waste resources. Now imagine an elite VOD where a caster says sorry I won't buff when the party stands before Horoth. "Sorry I WONT buff is different from 'Sorry I don't HAVE that buff. Time, resources wasted, and I can't post an lfm that I want an arcane with haste/blur/gh/RE/PE/rec/OID, etc, etc. I'm sorry but these are taken as granted.Apparently not since a caster didn't have them... if you NEED a buff to do a mission, buy a pot, a scroll or a wand. Can we as casters then take as granted that the melees have a stack of pots so we don't have to babysit red bars? This street goes two ways. And also, I really want to know beforehand who are those casters which think they do us a favor by buffing, hence the blacklist. *raises hand* yes, unless it is stated in the LFG BEFOREHAND that "All casters are required to buff" then we are doing you a FAVOR. Those are my spells, that is my SP bar, unless you are gonna sugardaddy me a few SP pots I will do with said bar as I please. Blacklist away.

And what I find most ridicolous that I actually have to tell why is it wrong that a caster doesn't buff. Because most of the high-end content cannot be run alone, Actually, most of the high end content I have seen (not all by any means, but the slight majority) can EASILY be run by a semi-competent caster and a hireling (which a lot of people still count as soloing), it's the character who doesnt have pots and thinks he is gonna zerg bastion that leads to failure and degradation by his peers not by melee, not by caster, not by divine. They are all needed, so behave accordingly. Melees shouldn't ask for unneeded buffs, and anyone who has the buffs should hand them out.

Just to be fair, I would be upset on a melee if he whines that stupid caster didn't give him GH and didn't kept him displaced during p1 of shroud

My answers in red.

[hermespan]

Yesterday I experience again what is getting me crazy. Casters who do not know what spells are for.

I would like to introduce you to the spell:
RESIST ENERGY
It is a 2nd lv spells avaible to all caster and it gives an ally limited protection from an elemental damage type. At lv 11 it grants 30 resistance to a single elemental.

It is just a second lv spell but it can be far better then:
Protection from Energy 3th lv spell
or
Protection from Elements 5th lv spell

those two spells grants Protection till the maximus of 120 points of elementals damage are not exceeded, then it ends.
the first one, Resist Energy, eleminate the first 30 points of elemental damage for every single incoming elelmental damage and it last till the end of the spell duration (or till dispelled)

So SP wise, in a quest full of elemnetal everage damage (so no spike of ellemetal damage), the second lv one is way better.

:::::::::::::::::

Now that you all know about it plz stop casting mass elementals protection when it is not necessary, it is a waste of SP for no gain (not necesary only your SP but also the healer one or wands/pots). ty

You can get clickies and greater resist items for the times you really need dr/30
You can also do some house P favor and get 30 minute dr/20 resists from the house P vendor that last through shrining and quest entry.

I hate wasting a slot on resist items but if it offers more survivability and no one is handing out resists, it's better than nothing.

In places like Co6 Attack of the Mephits caster resists are necessary since you can exactly wear 4 resist items, and by the time you get back from running to house P, your buffs are half gone and the party likely started without you and wiped already, unless they have some sense.

dr/10 potions won't cut it there. there's not always dr/20 or dr/30 pots on the AH. While I agree with the self sufficient philosophy, it's not practical or effective in all situations. Sometimes casters need to step up to the plate and help out. It helps them too, to not wipe, avoid the xp bonus loss (from deaths) and finish the quest.

I'm a team player, so if someone asks for something, I just give it to them, but you can't expect that of everyone all the time. It makes you needy and not fun to group with.

[Llewndyn]

You can get clickies and greater resist items for the times you really need dr/30
You can also do some house P favor and get 30 minute dr/20 resists from the house P vendor that last through shrining and quest entry.

I hate wasting a slot on resist items but if it offers more survivability and no one is handing out resists, it's better than nothing.

In places like Co6 Attack of the Mephits caster resists are necessary since you can exactly wear 4 resist items, and by the time you get back from running to house P, your buffs are half gone and the party likely started without you and wiped already, unless they have some sense.

dr/10 potions won't cut it there. there's not always dr/20 or dr/30 pots on the AH. While I agree with the self sufficient philosophy, it's not practical or effective in all situations. Sometimes casters need to step up to the plate and help out. It helps them too, to not wipe, avoid the xp bonus loss (from deaths) and finish the quest.

I'm a team player, so if someone asks for something, I just give it to them, but you can't expect that of everyone all the time. It makes you needy and not fun to group with.

I'm laughing at the irony, not in a mean spirited way at all. Last night. Ghallanda. Whole Sorrowdusk chain on elite and we were lvl 9-11. I solo healed and only cast prot energy ONCE before mephits. WHOLE chain - 2 deaths, and those were on the last part because 2 guys went wrong way around the circle. I only drank 1 regular sp pot the whole time too....

and yes it was a PUG.

[painindaguild]

I'm laughing at the irony, not in a mean spirited way at all. Last night. Ghallanda. Whole Sorrowdusk chain on elite and we were lvl 9-11. I solo healed and only cast prot energy ONCE before mephits. WHOLE chain - 2 deaths, and those were on the last part because 2 guys went wrong way around the circle. I only drank 1 regular sp pot the whole time too....

and yes it was a PUG.

those are all ur alts in ur sig i hope?

[Torebro]

dr/10 potions won't cut it there. there's not always dr/20 or dr/30 pots on the AH. While I agree with the self sufficient philosophy, it's not practical or effective in all situations. Sometimes casters need to step up to the plate and help out. It helps them too, to not wipe, avoid the xp bonus loss (from deaths) and finish the quest.

resist 20 pots can be bought at the potion vendor in the twelve.
Also rangers and paladins can cast resist too, and should before any caster is doing it. But my caster is willingly tossing resists before the cleric has to.

Regards
Tore

[DrNuegebauer]

the 2 spells dont stack, it would be far too convenient

This is not right.

The 2 spells DO stack - first the resist energy will stop (up to) 30 points, then if there is a remainder, the protection will get knocked down.

As to which of the 2 spells is 'better' - well yes, they both have their uses. HOWEVER if just one is to be cast, surely it must be 'resist' of the appropriate element???

I don't understand why the OP is getting so much grief and being told to be self-sufficient. Sure, be self-sufficient, but that doesn't stop the fact that those with spell points should have them taken away if they don't think resist energy is one of the more useful spells in the game.

It's so often that 'resist acid' comes in useful - let alone 'resist fire' - sonic is almost a MUST for Amrath. 20 minutes of 30 point reduction (ie immunity to Orthons sonic damage) for JUST 15 SP? Even if you don't cast it on anyone else, CAST IT ON YOURSELF!

I don't think the original post was a cry that he wasn't getting a buff; I think it was a cry for casters to realise that this is an excellent spell and please to take it (for their own benefit at the very least).

[ilgriffo]

To the marketplace VENDORS. There is one vendor that sells these magical things called Resist Potions, and you can buy them cheap!

Even the 30 ones?

The fact of the matter is, if I had resist energy, people would whine because I didn't have Restoration, if I have restoration, people would whine because I don't have this spell, if I have this spell then why don't I have that spell... it's MY character, not yours. If you need a certain spell so bad, put it in your LFG "Need caster with bb, raise dead, resist energy" is not rude, and you will ONLY get casters with the spells you want them to have by doing that. Yes, there are spells you want a caster to have: Firewall if a sorc or wizzy, haste too, blur or displacement if a bard (or wiz or sorc), raise and SOME kind of healing spell if a divine, but come on this is ridiculous. If you don't wanna do all that, get a hireling caster with the spell you want or buy a wand.

ppl always Whine don't they? btw I agree but it is not the intent of the post

Buffing takes time.
Time is the most constrained resource in the game.
Buffing through a single entity takes longer than everyone self-buffing. If you have critical buffs, manage them on the fly.

sadly true, can't do mutch but agree with this.

While I agree with the OP that resist energy is a great spell, protection from elements is still an incredibly valuable spell. Given the choice, I prefer resist energy most of the time, but there are occasions where protection from elements is better. Both are best, but not always worthwhile at low levels. After you begin to run Gianthold, and on a handful of quests before that, having resist energy is practically vital if not at least strongly recommended.
Casters need to know about when and where resist energy and protection from elements are needed/useful. But unfortunately for the OP, most everyone who knows enough to come to the forums knows enough about the game to realize this already.

I would like to have less sarcasm then me and write my opinion in the way you write it, can't express the concept better. ty

BTW I fell the OP was not well explained and it is my foult without any doubt.
BUT a quick reply all those who suggest me to buy resist energy items or house buffs or 30 resistance pots or a hireling: Yes I can do all this, It will cost me money and time but I can do it all, no problem. I strongly belive in be a self sufficient adventurer but I also think this game is also party based.
Sorry if someone take it personaly it was just a sarcastic post, obviously it was not aimed to ppl who know his toon or ppl who read the forums, I was hipoteticaly speaking to those who will never read that forum.

Peace and LOve to everyone (and also a resistance spell! :P )

[Xaearth]

The fact of the matter is, if I had resist energy, people would whine because I didn't have Restoration, if I have restoration, people would whine because I don't have this spell, if I have this spell then why don't I have that spell... it's MY character, not yours. If you need a certain spell so bad, put it in your LFG "Need caster with bb, raise dead, resist energy" is not rude, and you will ONLY get casters with the spells you want them to have by doing that. Yes, there are spells you want a caster to have: Firewall if a sorc or wizzy, haste too, blur or displacement if a bard (or wiz or sorc), raise and SOME kind of healing spell if a divine, but come on this is ridiculous. If you don't wanna do all that, get a hireling caster with the spell you want or buy a wand.

I just want to point out how much of a fool you make yourself look telling him to buy a wand when, not only are there Lesser Restoration wands, but also those Lesser Restoration wands are both cheaper than Resist 20/30 wands and more sp efficient than wasting sp (or even worse for an FvS, the spell slot) on Lesser Restoration spell.