Dwarf or 1/2 Orc??

[Jalpa7]

Pound for pound which is the better of the two for a pure barbarian?

Assuming a 32 point build and both going with Two-Handed Weapons. Greataxe most likely.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

All signs point to Horc

[Jakarr]

Min/max....bigger numbers....etc etc Half-Orc is the winner.

Only thing that matters from the Dwarf line would be the +to axe damage(which the extra str and rage str beats out, not to mention the power attack and extra +4 to damage)
And 20 more health which on a barb...heh.


Also Half-orcs look better and they have the Haka...thats a win for me.

[Enfira]

If you want to know min/max damage then HORC is what everyone will say. Personally I think they are close enough though that its a flavor choice. My favor of the day is bearded lady dwarves. Who wants a lady with teeth sticking out of her mouth like those HORCs :P

[Forzah]

In terms of DPS half orcs always win. If you like to trade in some damage for +5 saves vs spells and a bit more hp, take dwarf. For THF I'd always recommend Horc though.

[Thrudh]

Half-orc definitely....

Not even a min/max comparison.

Dwarves get extra CON (talking another 40-50 hp), but barbarians don't really need that...

Dwarves get bonuses to tactics (stun, trip), but half-orcs get more STR which also apply to tactics... so that's a wash.

Dwarves get damage bonuses when using axes... Half-orcs get the same bonuses when using ANY two-handed weapon... Dwarves are slightly ahead of orcs when using TWF dwarven axes... (+2 extra damage)...

BUT half-orcs have 4 more STR (6 more really with Orcish Power Rage) which is equal to the +2 damage (+3 with Orcish Power Rage)...


So far, all dwarves have is more hps... Half-orcs do more damage than dwarves. both with THF and TWF...

AND half-orcs get Power Attack enhancements, so there's even more damage...

AND half-orcs get Great Weapon Aptitude, which is even more damage with THF.

Dwarves get bonuses to saves... That's about all they have to counteract the above...


For a barbarian, half-orcs are a clear winner.

[Cam_Neely]

Pound for pound which is the better of the two for a pure barbarian?

Dwarf, but he is about half the size. If you are looking for pure DPS my answer might change

[Gnorbert]

Make your Half-Orc and type /dance ... then watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GpTsPNwwms ...Then imagine being on the other team.

You won't go back.

[ddobard1]

It depends. If you are shooting for DPS and the classic Barbarian build, then Half-Orc is better.
However there are plenty of flavor Barbarians out there, where many times a different race than Half-Orc is fine.
For example: you may want a Barbarian build who shines fighting enemy Casters, the first thing the Hero does when engages in melee combat is jump over the frontlines, and strike the Casters! With this perspective a Dwarf would be an excellent option.
Many builds and variables to consider here, each case is unique.

[Forzah]

Half-orc definitely....

Not even a min/max comparison.

Dwarves get extra CON (talking another 40-50 hp), but barbarians don't really need that...

Dwarves get bonuses to tactics (stun, trip), but half-orcs get more STR which also apply to tactics... so that's a wash.

Dwarves get damage bonuses when using axes... Half-orcs get the same bonuses when using ANY two-handed weapon... Dwarves are slightly ahead of orcs when using TWF dwarven axes... (+2 extra damage)...

BUT half-orcs have 4 more STR (6 more really with Orcish Power Rage) which is equal to the +2 damage (+3 with Orcish Power Rage)...


So far, all dwarves have is more hps... Half-orcs do more damage than dwarves. both with THF and TWF...

AND half-orcs get Power Attack enhancements, so there's even more damage...

AND half-orcs get Great Weapon Aptitude, which is even more damage with THF.

Dwarves get bonuses to saves... That's about all they have to counteract the above...


For a barbarian, half-orcs are a clear winner.

You forgot axe damage bonus feats for dwarves, which I value about the same as power attack enhancements.

[Guilllotine]

You forgot axe damage bonus feats for dwarves, which I value about the same as power attack enhancements.

Horcs also get extra action boosts for less AP as well. VERY useful indeed.

Taken from http://ddowiki.com/page/Half-Orc_enhancements

Orcish Extra Action Boost I: You can use each of your action boosts 1 extra time per rest.
AP Cost: 1 Level: 3 Progression: 7 Requires: Half-Orc

Orcish Extra Action Boost II: You can use each of your action boosts 1 extra time per rest. (For a total of 2 extra uses.)
AP Cost: 2 Level: 7 Progression: 22 Requires: Orcish Extra Action Boost I

Orcish Extra Action Boost III: You can use each of your action boosts 1 extra time per rest. (For a total of 3 extra uses.)
AP Cost: 3 Level: 11 Progression: 37 Requires: Orcish Extra Action Boost II

Barbarian =6 AP for 2 extra boosts
Horc = 6 AP for 3 extra boosts
This leaves more AP on a starved barb for more stuff, or have an extra boost for same cost

This is on top of other benefits described earlier. Between dwarf and horc, horc wins across the board.

[Thrudh]

You forgot axe damage bonus feats for dwarves, which I value about the same as power attack enhancements.

No, I didn't... THF half-orcs do a LOT more base damage than a THF dwarf, and they do slightly more damage than a TWF dwarf...

That's BEFORE Power attack enhancements...

Throw those in, and the damage difference only widens...

Dwarves get tactics... Half-orcs have the Strength to match.... wash.

The only thing dwarves get is saves (who cares about saves anymore?) and hps, oh and they can use more Dex with their armor, so they can boost their AC a few points...

But we're talking about barbarian class... hps not really necessary, and AC not needed either...

Dwarves no longer have anything to offer the barbarian class...

It's half-orc all the way...

And that's unfortunate.

[Battlehawke]

Pure DPS the 1/2 orc is better!!! Higher Procs and Str....

Battlehawke

[therobb]

Both are perfectly viable. So are warforged and human. On a geared barb, a difference of +2 or 3 to-hit and damage is pretty minor. (Oh no, my crits only hit for 290 instead of 300, woe is me!)

In the end, nobody in their right mind is going to turn down a decently geared barbarian from a raid based on the barb's race (unless you're looking for a hate tank that can be repaired, then it's warforged FTW).

[Khanyth]

Stats/facts/numbers wise.... Half orc. No question.

[side note] as it should be... one is a P2P race, one isn't [/side note]

If you want uber leet DPS awesomeness, take HO.

The only reason why to take dwarf is for sentimental reasons.

[dragonlo]

between those 2 I would say HOrc all the way.

[NinjaNeed]

I have a 20 Dwarf Barb who I am planning on TR-ing into a H-Orc 20 Barb. I expect my dps to increase by a HUGE amount for the following reasons...

H-Orc will do more base damage than a Dwarf (from what I read here)
28 point build into a 34 point build!
Barb past life

All in all I think HOrc is the way to go.

[Dylvish]

Dwarf:

+ Saves vs all enchantments
+ Hps
The + damage from racial cancels Horc STR bonus.
+ Hit (we all know Horc will pick up the extra PA bonus, lowering the hit more)


Horc:

Higher STR (damage bonus makes it even, but STR will work with any weapon, not just axes)
THF enhancement (more procs on GBS)
PA enhancement (more PA damage, more PA hit penalty)
Rage bonus enhancement (cant remember what it does now)


If you want more pure damage, go Horc
If you want tougher go Dwarf

If you want to go with concept or something that tickles your fancy for looks, go with either, they both still rock.

[Thrudh]

they both still rock.

This part is true...

Nothing gimp at all about a dwarven barbarian...

But the numbers favor the half-orc when rolling up a new barbarian (again we're talking barbarians - half-orcs don't beat dwarves in all cases)

[Jrstevenson07]

my opinion is dwarf.

HO will def do more dps, but my 20barb that focuses on con is a monster. Has several hundred more hp than str based barbarians. What good is your dps and aggro going to do you if you can't handle the punishment?

Just my opinion.