Dwarf or 1/2 Orc??

[Jalpa7]

Pound for pound which is the better of the two for a pure barbarian?

Assuming a 32 point build and both going with Two-Handed Weapons. Greataxe most likely.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

All signs point to Horc

[Jakarr]

Min/max....bigger numbers....etc etc Half-Orc is the winner.

Only thing that matters from the Dwarf line would be the +to axe damage(which the extra str and rage str beats out, not to mention the power attack and extra +4 to damage)
And 20 more health which on a barb...heh.


Also Half-orcs look better and they have the Haka...thats a win for me.

[Enfira]

If you want to know min/max damage then HORC is what everyone will say. Personally I think they are close enough though that its a flavor choice. My favor of the day is bearded lady dwarves. Who wants a lady with teeth sticking out of her mouth like those HORCs :P

[Forzah]

In terms of DPS half orcs always win. If you like to trade in some damage for +5 saves vs spells and a bit more hp, take dwarf. For THF I'd always recommend Horc though.

[Thrudh]

Half-orc definitely....

Not even a min/max comparison.

Dwarves get extra CON (talking another 40-50 hp), but barbarians don't really need that...

Dwarves get bonuses to tactics (stun, trip), but half-orcs get more STR which also apply to tactics... so that's a wash.

Dwarves get damage bonuses when using axes... Half-orcs get the same bonuses when using ANY two-handed weapon... Dwarves are slightly ahead of orcs when using TWF dwarven axes... (+2 extra damage)...

BUT half-orcs have 4 more STR (6 more really with Orcish Power Rage) which is equal to the +2 damage (+3 with Orcish Power Rage)...


So far, all dwarves have is more hps... Half-orcs do more damage than dwarves. both with THF and TWF...

AND half-orcs get Power Attack enhancements, so there's even more damage...

AND half-orcs get Great Weapon Aptitude, which is even more damage with THF.

Dwarves get bonuses to saves... That's about all they have to counteract the above...


For a barbarian, half-orcs are a clear winner.

[Cam_Neely]

Pound for pound which is the better of the two for a pure barbarian?

Dwarf, but he is about half the size. If you are looking for pure DPS my answer might change

[Battlehawke]

Pure DPS the 1/2 orc is better!!! Higher Procs and Str....

Battlehawke

[dragonlo]

between those 2 I would say HOrc all the way.

[NinjaNeed]

I have a 20 Dwarf Barb who I am planning on TR-ing into a H-Orc 20 Barb. I expect my dps to increase by a HUGE amount for the following reasons...

H-Orc will do more base damage than a Dwarf (from what I read here)
28 point build into a 34 point build!
Barb past life

All in all I think HOrc is the way to go.

[Dylvish]

Dwarf:

+ Saves vs all enchantments
+ Hps
The + damage from racial cancels Horc STR bonus.
+ Hit (we all know Horc will pick up the extra PA bonus, lowering the hit more)


Horc:

Higher STR (damage bonus makes it even, but STR will work with any weapon, not just axes)
THF enhancement (more procs on GBS)
PA enhancement (more PA damage, more PA hit penalty)
Rage bonus enhancement (cant remember what it does now)


If you want more pure damage, go Horc
If you want tougher go Dwarf

If you want to go with concept or something that tickles your fancy for looks, go with either, they both still rock.

[Thrudh]

they both still rock.

This part is true...

Nothing gimp at all about a dwarven barbarian...

But the numbers favor the half-orc when rolling up a new barbarian (again we're talking barbarians - half-orcs don't beat dwarves in all cases)

[Ungood]

I would like to add in that Dwarfs get Giant Dodger and Goblinoid Hatred, which kick in at around 5th level, With such wonderful quests like Irestone, (Yes, I know, you soloed it at 2nd level with your blah blah blah) and carry up to around 18th when GH starts to go out of style.

Now this adds to all weapons, for the Dwarf as well, abet, axes being their primary. Also, remember, you might need ranged, and the dwarf axe damage and to-hit apply to thrown axes as well. (Just putting that out there)

But I think I would still go with the 1/2 Orc for a barb build.

[Jrstevenson07]

my opinion is dwarf.

HO will def do more dps, but my 20barb that focuses on con is a monster. Has several hundred more hp than str based barbarians. What good is your dps and aggro going to do you if you can't handle the punishment?

Just my opinion.

[Thrudh]

my opinion is dwarf.

HO will def do more dps, but my 20barb that focuses on con is a monster. Has several hundred more hp than str based barbarians. What good is your dps and aggro going to do you if you can't handle the punishment?

Just my opinion.

Barbarians already get a lot of hps and have CON enhancements... They are the class that least need hps...

A barbarian with 700 hps can "handle the punishment" as well as a barbarian with 900 hps... There is a diminishing return to hit points once you get past a certain point.

[Jrstevenson07]

Barbarians already get a lot of hps and have CON enhancements... They are the class that least need hps...

A barbarian with 700 hps can "handle the punishment" as well as a barbarian with 900 hps... There is a diminishing return to hit points once you get past a certain point.

I'm just going by my experience as opposed to number crunching, and when you are surrounded getting gangraped with your 10ac and 2d3 damage every time you hit somone (not to mention spells hurt... a LOT) the hp helps. I've seen my str based counterparts bite the dust a lot more than my con based, and the dps difference isn't as huge as you would think.

I prefer the survivability rather than the bit of extra damage myself.

[Midgavia]

my Opinion Is Dwarf.

Ho Will Def Do More Dps, But My 20barb That Focuses On Con Is A Monster. Has Several Hundred More Hp Than Str Based Barbarians. What Good Is Your Dps And Aggro Going To Do You If You Can't Handle The Punishment?

Just My Opinion.

3/10.

[Uska]

split the diff and play a dork