critique my dex/con/int assassin trapper

[voodoogroves]

Yeah - totally not redundant and probably out-right required on a finesse build for decent performance.

Smiting, Banishing, Disrupting are for the trash mobs who can be killed out-right. End-game giants, all dragons, any bosses you're going to need to DPS-down. Doing that on a finesse rogue without greater banes is an exercise in time-loss-theory. Constructs and undead, specifically, can't be sneak-attacked so you can't wail on them with deception and hope to get lucky either.

If you have space for the greater banes, anyone can benefit. A STR build needs them less, however, as the bane property makes up less of its total damage.

[Merrus]

Great Minds Thinking Alike (GMTA), what can I say

While an early responder said he didn't particular like dex builds, I have to admit that the strength build was sluggish and that's the big reason I wanted to switch back to a dex build. I ran her through shrouds and she was never a problem--I was once, made a big dumb mistake, but she was fine.

I haven't been in a situation yet where I missed PA, but I haven't tried to go after undead at level. In groups, there
are always places where some melee will have to bow out. Monks have to do the rusties and cubes in Rainbow, etc.

I wanted more con and the toughness to approach that 400. The only time she's croaked in a major fight is when we went off while one of our healers was still shrining. She had company in the death department. This one wasn't my fault and she had company in the "oh, look at the pretty stone" department

Are you leveling this your build? I am not and will have to redo this when I TR her 60+ shrouds from now.

Yes, this is my highest level character. The layout below reflects how he was actually built, up to his present level of 16, rather than how I would level him from scratch. Until recently, I focused on acquiring +6 ability stat items and +15 items for Rogue skills. He has 100% Fortification and Greater False Life, and is beginning to acquire some Greater Bane weapons.

He carries an Everbright staff for oozes etc. and another staff for undead. Not ideal, but I work with what I have. He has 284HP, without buffs, so is a bit squishy, and I try to find a meatshield to follow around, using Diplomacy as needed to shed aggro.

He suits my playstyle, and should be much better at lvl 20 and with better gear, Green Steel etc.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Merus 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Halfling Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 22
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            18                    28
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         14                    18
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               8                    33
Bluff                 1                    16
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy             3                    24
Disable Device        6                    28
Haggle               -1                     1
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                  8                    45
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  2                    18
Listen               -1                    13
Move Silently         8                    43
Open Lock             8                    33
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    28
Spot                  3                    24
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                6                    12
Use Magic Device      3                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II

[blametroi]

He suits my playstyle, and should be much better at lvl 20 and with better gear, Green Steel etc.

No GS for me yet, but I did make two sets of DT armor (actually vestments). I had runes to make a high int suit for trapping and a reasonable melee one with magma surge guard. Doesn't proc often but if I'm doing my job well, I don't take a lot of hits.

[Ookami007]

Let me ask you as question.... Why DEX? What is it that you really want from the DEX?

DEX only affect 1 "essential' rogue skill.... Open Locks. The other two essential skills (DD and Search are INT).

I HIGHLY recommend LR'ing into a STR build and going khopesh. Once you do that, you will NOT want to go back. I know... I've been there... I even LR'ed BACK to DEX to try it again and couldn't wait for the 7 days to be up so I go back to STR.

Here's why STR is better, IMO.

1st - DEX and weapon finese affects the attack bonus, but NOT the damage - whereas STR affects attack AND damage - so you get a two for one.

2nd - There are more items and ways to boost STR than there are to boost DEX. Your potential DEX will never be higher than your potential STR. With Titan's gloves, madstone, rage, cookies you can get a HUGE STR... not so with DEX.

3rd - STR gives you more damage when confronted with someone immune to sneak attacks, which is always our Achilles Heel.

4th - End game, you will be doing alot of epics. On epic, the main strategy is to mass hold/dance etc mobs. At that point, you'll be autocrit'ing. Khopeshes with STR are FAR superior to rapiers in autocrit situations.

For example

Rapier = 1d6 x2 (crit range is irrelevant in autocrits)
Khopesh = 1d8 x3

Str build = (16 + 5 levels + 2 tome + 6 item + 3 exceptional (ToD ring) + 2 rage + 2 madstone) = 34 STR (+12)
Dex build = (14 + 2 tome + 6 item + 3 exceptional (ToD ring) + 2 rage + 2 madstone) = 29 STR (+9)

So... for damage...

Rapier on DEX build
3.5 (base) + 5 (PA) + 9 (STR) = 17.5 avg x 2 (crit multiplier) = 35 pts

Khopesh on STR build
5 (base) + 5 (PA) + 12 (STR) = 22 avg x 3 (crit multiplier) = 66 pts

Now, those are not including any other numbers like bard song, GH, etc.... anything that adds to base damage gets multipled in so the numbers go high... but as you can see... the STR build is doing nearly TWICE the damage as a DEX build against end mobs.

Now, as far as skills go, with max ranks and a starting INT of 14, all you should really need (other than a GH) to get Epic traps is a +6 GS skill item... or even a +3 INT skill rune on Dragontouch. My assassin can get any trap (outside of Cabal) that he's run into on Epic. And if you want some extra umph, there's bardsong, skill pots and things lie ventilated bracers (stacking DD modifier).

I hope that helps you.





Rapier = base (3.5)

STR-based Khopesh bu

[blametroi]

Let me ask you as question.... Why DEX? What is it that you really want from the DEX?

DEX only affect 1 "essential' rogue skill.... Open Locks. The other two essential skills (DD and Search are INT).

I HIGHLY recommend LR'ing into a STR build and going khopesh. Once you do that, you will NOT want to go back. I know... I've been there... I even LR'ed BACK to DEX to try it again and couldn't wait for the 7 days to be up so I go back to STR.

Well, I didn't like the strength build. Halfling rogues seem to be all about dex, and since conventional wisdom seems to be that strength is the way to go, I of course have to go the other way

This toon started off as a big-effin-stick-build, LRed to dex, LRed to str, and now back to dex.

Dex helps with evasion and while her base damage isn't as high as strength, I can get a lot of dex using the halfling and rogue dex bumps. I've got DT armor for extra int when trapping, etc.

Anyway, I may try a strength build rogue sometime in the future, but this gal is gonna stay dex at this point. She's fine now.

[Ookami007]

Well, I didn't like the strength build. Halfling rogues seem to be all about dex, and since conventional wisdom seems to be that strength is the way to go, I of course have to go the other way

I can certainly respect that.

This toon started off as a big-effin-stick-build, LRed to dex, LRed to str, and now back to dex.

I started off the opposite: DEX to STR to DEX and now finally STR.

Dex helps with evasion and while her base damage isn't as high as strength, I can get a lot of dex using the halfling and rogue dex bumps. I've got DT armor for extra int when trapping, etc.

While I agree that DEX helps with evasion, you can still get a decently high DEX with the rogue/halfling enhancements PLUS have a good STR.

Anyway, I may try a strength build rogue sometime in the future, but this gal is gonna stay dex at this point. She's fine now.

The biggest thing is that you enjoy the toon and enjoy the game. I enjoy being the most valuable possible... that means top-notch dps, disarm any trap, UMD out the wazoo, knowing all the quest puzzles, etc.

It's all about your play style.

[blametroi]

I can certainly respect that.
The biggest thing is that you enjoy the toon and enjoy the game. I enjoy being the most valuable possible... that means top-notch dps, disarm any trap, UMD out the wazoo, knowing all the quest puzzles, etc.

It's all about your play style.

Yup.

I love UMD and miss it on my other toons. Scrolls are great, I just need more inventory space

In your original reply you mentioned kopesh with the strength build. Is that really worth a feat?

[Ookami007]

Oops... I forgot to calculate weapon bonus damage before...

For example, assuming +5 weapons (probably GS)

Rapier = 1d6 x2 (crit range is irrelevant in autocrits)
Khopesh = 1d8 x3

Str build = (16 + 5 levels + 2 tome + 6 item + 3 exceptional (ToD ring) + 2 rage + 2 madstone) = 34 STR (+12)
Dex build = (14 + 2 tome + 6 item + 3 exceptional (ToD ring) + 2 rage + 2 madstone) = 29 STR (+9)

So... for damage...

Rapier on DEX build
3.5 (base) + 5 (PA) + 9 (STR) + 5 (weapon enchament)= 22.5 avg x 2 (crit multiplier) = 45 pts

Khopesh on STR build
5 (base) + 5 (PA) + 12 (STR) + 5 (weapon enchament) = 27 avg x 3 (crit multiplier) = 81 pts

[RJBsComputer]

Strength vs Dex is more of a playing style choice then anything else. Strength builds like to get in there and mix it up with the big boys were as the Dex build is more of jump the crowd, kill casters and healers and then come back to steal the kills from the big boys.

I feel the most important feat a rogue can have is Improve Crit Hit. When you are swinging crit hit dependent weapons, get the ones that have the largest crit range.

[Ookami007]

Strength vs Dex is more of a playing style choice then anything else. Strength builds like to get in there and mix it up with the big boys were as the Dex build is more of jump the crowd, kill casters and healers and then come back to steal the kills from the big boys.

I feel the most important feat a rogue can have is Improve Crit Hit. When you are swinging crit hit dependent weapons, get the ones that have the largest crit range.

Look at my example above...

A STR rogue doing is 81 pts vs DEX doing 45. That's a difference of 36 pts per swing. In a round, you get about 6 swings. That's a difference of 216 pts a round... that's pretty significant.

And what is a rogue really giving up... 5 pts of DEX (level ups). That's a +2 to Reflex and +2 to DEX skills (tumble, balance, open lock, etc.)... I can't really see that as being worth it.

Even if you have a lower pt build and have to drop DEX to a 15 vs 16, that's still only a +3 to reflex save and DEX skills... vs 216 pts extra per round.

I really don't understand the argument against it. Not having played both ways... and in fact, I'm still waiting to LR one of my other level 20 rogues to STR.

[Merrus]

Oops... I forgot to calculate weapon bonus damage before...

For example, assuming +5 weapons (probably GS)

Rapier = 1d6 x2 (crit range is irrelevant in autocrits)
Khopesh = 1d8 x3

Str build = (16 + 5 levels + 2 tome + 6 item + 3 exceptional (ToD ring) + 2 rage + 2 madstone) = 34 STR (+12)
Dex build = (14 + 2 tome + 6 item + 3 exceptional (ToD ring) + 2 rage + 2 madstone) = 29 STR (+9)

So... for damage...

Rapier on DEX build
3.5 (base) + 5 (PA) + 9 (STR) + 5 (weapon enchament)= 22.5 avg x 2 (crit multiplier) = 45 pts

Khopesh on STR build
5 (base) + 5 (PA) + 12 (STR) + 5 (weapon enchament) = 27 avg x 3 (crit multiplier) = 81 pts

To accurately compare BUILDS, you must assume the same weapon for both builds, so lets do that. Your Str build will have 36 strength and your Dex build will have 29 strength (28 for damage purposes). That's a difference of 8 strength and 4 damage per hit.

You are ignoring "to hit" and assuming every hit is a critical, so lets do that.

With Rapiers that difference is 8 damage per crit, times 6 attacks per round, which is a difference of 48 damage per round.

With Kopeshes that difference is 12 damage per crit times 6 attacks per round, which is a difference of 72 damage per round.

So, with your assumptions of always hitting, and all hits being critical hits, the difference between the two BUILDS is 72 damage per round with Kopeshes or 48 with Rapiers. This is significant, but it is a lot less than 216.

Now lets compare the Dex build with Rapier to the Str build with Kopesh. Using your formula, that computes to 45 for the Dex build with Rapier and 82.5 for the Str build with Kopesh, for a total difference of 225 damage per 6 attack round. That is indeed impressive, and demonstrates the potential of the higher crit multiplier of the Kopesh, however ...

... lets remove your assumption of every hit being a critical, which seems more realistic, then the higher crit rate of the Rapier will narrow the difference. Also, the additional strength, and resulting damage, of rage, ring, and madstone emphasizes the difference, but may not be available to any given player/character. Removing one or more of these narrows the difference as well. Your example does a good job of showing the POTENTIAL (damage) advantage of a strength build with Kopesh, but the actual difference could be somewhat less for any given character. So, the superiority of the strength BUILD with Kopeshes may not be as dramatic as you think, for every player/character.

Also, a strength build (halfling) starting at 16 strength would require a sacrifice of points in dexterity and constitution or intelligence, and/or require a +2 tome to meet the 17 dex requirement for the Two Weapon Fighting feats. Not everyone is willing to make that sacrifice. It does appear that a strength build, using Kopeshes, may have superior damage potential, but at what price? Maybe a player doesn't play much and can't afford the "good" Kopeshes, and opts for the wider (and cheaper) weapon choices of a finess build, or values other stats over the additional damage from strength, or values "to hit" over damage while they are acquiring that uber gear.

For many of us there is more to consider when building a character than merely maximizing damage.

[karl_k0ch]

To accurately compare BUILDS, you must assume the same weapon for both builds, so lets do that.

So how do you compare a Horc Qstaff Acrobat/Kensai with a TR'd Str-based Rapierwielding Halfling and a 12 Ranger/7 Rogue/1 Monk, who attacks with his bare hands? You don't?

You can't force a Finesse build to wear Khopeshes, because these are not finessable. And why should you take a rapier when you are considering a build which took the Khopesh feat and IC: Slash?

The choice of the weapon is an essential part of a build. So assuming a different weapon does not give credit to the fact that the build may be optimized for that particular weapon choice.

But yes, the above calculation needs some love: The end str value should be 36, not 34. And assuming auto-crit is a bit of a stretch, indeed.

The Str-vs-Dex-Problem consists basically of two separate things:
1) Choice of Weapon. A rapier does worse DPS than a Khopesh, but a large part of a rogue's damage is luckily independent of the choice of weapon, because it is 17D6 + 12 on a naked lvl 20 assasin. You get more with a Halfling or items. This way, a Rapier remains a valid choice as a rogue weapon if you don't want to spend a feat on the khopesh, or if you need a finessable weapon.
2) Lack of Strength. As Ookami007 lines out, a Dex-based rogue will have a lower initial Str and misses the level up in Str, which is a lack of about 7 Str points, depending on your build. This way, you trade about 7 Damage per swing (both hands together, pre-crit) for a higher to-hit value, a better reflex save and a bonus to your skills. Again, this is not as worse as it would be like for Kensais since the main part of the damage comes from sneak attacks. And against SA-immune targets, most rogues just suck alike.

So in conclusion, Dex does less damage than Str, but the gap is not painfully large.

[Merrus]

So how do you compare a Horc Qstaff Acrobat/Kensai with a TR'd Str-based Rapierwielding Halfling and a 12 Ranger/7 Rogue/1 Monk, who attacks with his bare hands? You don't?

You can't force a Finesse build to wear Khopeshes, because these are not finessable. And why should you take a rapier when you are considering a build which took the Khopesh feat and IC: Slash?

The choice of the weapon is an essential part of a build. So assuming a different weapon does not give credit to the fact that the build may be optimized for that particular weapon choice.

But yes, the above calculation needs some love: The end str value should be 36, not 34. And assuming auto-crit is a bit of a stretch, indeed.

The Str-vs-Dex-Problem consists basically of two separate things:
1) Choice of Weapon. A rapier does worse DPS than a Khopesh, but a large part of a rogue's damage is luckily independent of the choice of weapon, because it is 17D6 + 12 on a naked lvl 20 assasin. You get more with a Halfling or items. This way, a Rapier remains a valid choice as a rogue weapon if you don't want to spend a feat on the khopesh, or if you need a finessable weapon.
2) Lack of Strength. As Ookami007 lines out, a Dex-based rogue will have a lower initial Str and misses the level up in Str, which is a lack of about 7 Str points, depending on your build. This way, you trade about 7 Damage per swing (both hands together, pre-crit) for a higher to-hit value, a better reflex save and a bonus to your skills. Again, this is not as worse as it would be like for Kensais since the main part of the damage comes from sneak attacks. And against SA-immune targets, most rogues just suck alike.

So in conclusion, Dex does less damage than Str, but the gap is not painfully large.

I agree ...

My purpose in separating the weapon from the "build" was to show that the perceived advantage of str over dex is not just the extra damage from strength, but also in the higher crit multiplier of the Kopesh. As a side note, I have seen strength builds that use Rapiers.

[karl_k0ch]

As a side note, I have seen strength builds that use Rapiers.

Yes, me too, which is why I wrote the first paragraph in a fashion which is essentially independent of a "Finesse or no Finesse?" question. A TR'd Halfling (with past life rogue) cannot afford the Exotic Weapon Feat, because there is simply not enough room.

[Ookami007]

To accurately compare BUILDS, you must assume the same weapon for both builds, so lets do that. Your Str build will have 36 strength and your Dex build will have 29 strength (28 for damage purposes). That's a difference of 8 strength and 4 damage per hit.

You are ignoring "to hit" and assuming every hit is a critical, so lets do that.

With Rapiers that difference is 8 damage per crit, times 6 attacks per round, which is a difference of 48 damage per round.

With Kopeshes that difference is 12 damage per crit times 6 attacks per round, which is a difference of 72 damage per round.

So, with your assumptions of always hitting, and all hits being critical hits, the difference between the two BUILDS is 72 damage per round with Kopeshes or 48 with Rapiers. This is significant, but it is a lot less than 216.

Now lets compare the Dex build with Rapier to the Str build with Kopesh. Using your formula, that computes to 45 for the Dex build with Rapier and 82.5 for the Str build with Kopesh, for a total difference of 225 damage per 6 attack round. That is indeed impressive, and demonstrates the potential of the higher crit multiplier of the Kopesh, however ...

... lets remove your assumption of every hit being a critical, which seems more realistic, then the higher crit rate of the Rapier will narrow the difference. Also, the additional strength, and resulting damage, of rage, ring, and madstone emphasizes the difference, but may not be available to any given player/character. Removing one or more of these narrows the difference as well. Your example does a good job of showing the POTENTIAL (damage) advantage of a strength build with Kopesh, but the actual difference could be somewhat less for any given character. So, the superiority of the strength BUILD with Kopeshes may not be as dramatic as you think, for every player/character.

Also, a strength build (halfling) starting at 16 strength would require a sacrifice of points in dexterity and constitution or intelligence, and/or require a +2 tome to meet the 17 dex requirement for the Two Weapon Fighting feats. Not everyone is willing to make that sacrifice. It does appear that a strength build, using Kopeshes, may have superior damage potential, but at what price? Maybe a player doesn't play much and can't afford the "good" Kopeshes, and opts for the wider (and cheaper) weapon choices of a finess build, or values other stats over the additional damage from strength, or values "to hit" over damage while they are acquiring that uber gear.

For many of us there is more to consider when building a character than merely maximizing damage.

I'm assuming end game... in Epic, most of the time - except end fights - you're going to have mass holds and you'll be beating on held mobs, so every swing (except 1) will hit and every one will be a crit. So it's a valid assumption if you want to see how you will do end game. Even in non-endgame, a khopesh user will do more damage ALL the time, since their higher STR will be give them extra damage vs non-crit-able creatures.

Also keep in mind, that I was using VERY base numbers... anything that adds to damage that's multiplied in a crit will increase the gap between rapier and khopesh.... so ToD rings, set bonuses, guild bonuses, etc. that add to damage will be multiplied.

As far as weapon choice, if you can't afford khopeshes, there's nothing to say you can't go full out STR and still use rapiers until you get the money to buy the ones you want or find the ones you want. And it becomes moot once you get into Vale and have a choice of what GS to make. At that point, you go with the weapon you plan to use end game.... trust me... it's a pain in the butt to have to go back and make a 2nd set of MinII and RadII khopeshes when you see the truth.

Again... as I pointed out, playstyles are unique... some prefer form over function. I did, until I decided I wanted to contribute as much as possible to my guild raids.

But it's a personal decision. To gimp... or not to gimp.

[Merrus]

I'm assuming end game... in Epic, most of the time - except end fights - you're going to have mass holds and you'll be beating on held mobs, so every swing (except 1) will hit and every one will be a crit. So it's a valid assumption if you want to see how you will do end game. Even in non-endgame, a khopesh user will do more damage ALL the time, since their higher STR will be give them extra damage vs non-crit-able creatures.

Also keep in mind, that I was using VERY base numbers... anything that adds to damage that's multiplied in a crit will increase the gap between rapier and khopesh.... so ToD rings, set bonuses, guild bonuses, etc. that add to damage will be multiplied.

As far as weapon choice, if you can't afford khopeshes, there's nothing to say you can't go full out STR and still use rapiers until you get the money to buy the ones you want or find the ones you want. And it becomes moot once you get into Vale and have a choice of what GS to make. At that point, you go with the weapon you plan to use end game.... trust me... it's a pain in the butt to have to go back and make a 2nd set of MinII and RadII khopeshes when you see the truth.

Again... as I pointed out, playstyles are unique... some prefer form over function. I did, until I decided I wanted to contribute as much as possible to my guild raids.

But it's a personal decision. To gimp... or not to gimp.

I am not disagreeing with you. In the situation where you always hit and every hit is a critical, Kopesh is the way to go, and if I find myself in that situation, I will respec for Kopesh. Meanwhile, I'll stick with the higher crit rate of the Rapier.

[Ookami007]

I am not disagreeing with you. In the situation where you always hit and every hit is a critical, Kopesh is the way to go, and if I find myself in that situation, I will respec for Kopesh. Meanwhile, I'll stick with the higher crit rate of the Rapier.

If you are a STR based rogue wielding rapiers, then khopesh beat rapiers by only a little. Remember, you crit MORE with a rapier, but you do more critical damage with a khopesh... the 20% better crit chance of the rapier vs the 50% more crit damage of the khopesh.

Regardless, either STR build will blow away a DEX/Finese build.... which was the point I was making.