what can be done to balance melee and magic

[minimomo]

i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a **** quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.

[Crystalizer]

but there are many other situations in ddo where a caster is useless compared to a melee, apart from having a huge pool of mana pots. casters have been so much nerfed in favor of melee classes, i dont think they deserve some more nerfs.

[Vellrad]

I think you don't know what are you talking about.
1st: this guy is blackbone, so he is 100% fire-resist. No FW, no meteors, no fireballs, no polar rays etc. He is carrying a lot of different weapons, and switching them in battle, just like players.
2nd: at endgame all casters are reduced to buffbots for meeles, and throwing 2 or 3 spells in whole dungeon (mass hold, firewall, dancing sphere). All other spells are almost useless.
3rd: its 100% OK that some of dungeons are made in way that 1 class got easier task that other. In some quests caster is king, in others he is waste in party slot.
4th: you're not going to finish this quest without spoilers/ another players anyway.

[minimomo]

just go youtube any quest name.

you will get 10,000 results like this;

- soloing "x quest" arcane
- soloing "y quest" cleric

and maybe a few very low level quest results where a straightforward melee (not a rogue sneak passing stuff) bashing things around...

i don't care if they have to nerf casters more or make melee stronger. i just want to solo things too...

[minimomo]

I think you don't know what are you talking about.
1st: this guy is blackbone, so he is 100% fire-resist. No FW, no meteors, no fireballs, no polar rays etc. He is carrying a lot of different weapons, and switching them in battle, just like players.

i have seen a youtube video where a cleric using blade barrier and killing him. i don't care if he has fire resist. firewall was just an example. i'm not a caster...

2nd: at endgame all casters are reduced to buffbots for meeles, and throwing 2 or 3 spells in whole dungeon (mass hold, firewall, dancing sphere). All other spells are almost useless.

i'm not talking about endgame though... you can't explain unfair with another. you just hang in there, keep sucking but try to hit 20. then you will rock? screw that.

3rd: its 100% OK that some of dungeons are made in way that 1 class got easier task that other. In some quests caster is king, in others he is waste in party slot.
4th: you're not going to finish this quest without spoilers/ another players anyway.

guess you are talking about endgame again.

[Flavilandile]

i just want to solo things too...

You know that it's not one of the basic tenet of D&D ( and DDO ) ?

This game is all about cooperation... Solo mode and Explorer areas were put in as an afterthought because a lot of
people asked for the possibility.

Yes a large portion of the content is soloable ( even on a melee... but you need the right build and the skills to use it correctly... ) but there's still a good portion of it that requires to be in a party cooperating with others.

[Vandas]

When my Strength drops to 0 on my Wizard/Rogue, I can't cast spells. I'm just as helpless as a Melee. The difference is, you can take more hits with your Melee Strength than I can with my Caster Strength.

The game is not balanced around solo play (assuming you are talking about solo - it's hard to follow).

Everything is fine.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Last time I was in there we melee'd him down with a rogue and a fighter so there is no problem dealing with him as a melee.

Besides which, D&D is based on grouping, the only balance should be at the group level. Group if you don't have the skills or equipment to solo.

[stoolcannon]

i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a **** quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.

Roll a wizard and go run amrath. You'll feel better about your melee toon.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

You want to beat him alone on a melee? Guess what? Its easy...i do that all the time.

Only thing you need is being immun to vorpal and use a cleric/FvS hireling to cast Heal on you to remove your stat damage from time to time.

Thats it.

[minimomo]

You know that it's not one of the basic tenet of D&D ( and DDO ) ?

This game is all about cooperation... Solo mode and Explorer areas were put in as an afterthought because a lot of
people asked for the possibility.

Yes a large portion of the content is soloable ( even on a melee... but you need the right build and the skills to use it correctly... ) but there's still a good portion of it that requires to be in a party cooperating with others.

if no one was able to solo any quest all by themselves, i wouldn't start this thread. i know what is D&D. it's more like this game doesn't know what it is. and no, unless like you have to use 3 different runes or have to be in 3 places at the same time, all the quests (don't know endgame stuff) soloable by casters...

this is not what i call cooperation.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS; because, say, a cleric can easily solo litany, you won't be able to find a healer. people just seeing this problem and converts to casters to solo things. which is wrong. the game indeed should be all about cooperation and force you to find a party.

[Xaxx]

I love that in your what.. (looks at forums join date)... 2 months of playing op that your already calling for *balances* aka nerfs.

Play some more classes, get past necro, and learn about the game first.. then come offer us your opinion, until then, back in the cage you go.

Just as an aside to the f2ps, we're well over a year into this f2p ddo with module 9.7 launching and 9.8 somewhere down the road (sorry i refuse to call them updates, every update from here on out is simply Module 9.x, if they ever release a massive update being worthy of being called a module then that shall be Module 10 and updates from then on will be 10.x).

Yet I still hear newer players (be they f2p, premiums, vips who started as f2p, or guys who just joined 2 weeks ago) moan and gripe about the treatment us vets give them. Now dont get me wrong ive met alot of great players who started out in f2p, but in general its posts like this that still leave a sour taste in a vets mouth. People with a join date 2 months old thinking they know everything about the game and ranting that this needs changed and that needs changed.

For every great unlimited player i've met, i see 10 of these froob posts/ingame people complaining about this or that or spells or a weapon or how trip works (its sad when you have to tell a level 15 fighter that they actually have to hit the trip icon to make trip work). They have no clue what they're talkinga bout but have to spout about how unfair something is.

So this is just a public service message, dont be like the OP, learn the game, then be free to complain about it, not the other way around.

[donfilibuster]

i don't care if they have to nerf casters more or make melee stronger. i just want to solo things too...

not gonna happen, there's no one man army in d&d, likewise there's going to be some quests casters can't solo.

[AyumiAmakusa]

This isn't your everyday MMO. I like how this game incorporates cooperation into gameplay. Magic is meant to be strong but they are limited by SP while Melee are meant to be sustainable damage and not nukers.

[minimomo]

When my Strength drops to 0 on my Wizard/Rogue, I can't cast spells. I'm just as helpless as a Melee. The difference is, you can take more hits with your Melee Strength than I can with my Caster Strength.

thing is you don't have to stand before him and wait till your any stat drop to zero...

The game is not balanced around solo play (assuming you are talking about solo - it's hard to follow). .

yes, and i'm asking what can be done. but as usual people just trying to teach me how to play.

Everything is fine.

not really, not at all.

[minimomo]

not gonna happen, there's no one man army in d&d, likewise there's going to be some quests casters can't solo.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...... there is. and they are casters. i don't care if they can't solo "all the quests" they can solo "most of them" i want that too.

i don't want to solo any quest a caster can't solo.

but i want to solo every quest a caster can solo.

[Jakarr]

I normally play hybrid casters my fav are my FvS and 16 sorc/2pal/2rog and I will tell you for most quest I will beat it np just melee'n the whole thing. Melees do great 1-7 then about 17 they gain that grp advantage back. Another thing is your gear up to date? Did you try using a Greater Undead Bane on him? Melees are shackled by what gear they have while casters have to deal with sp and what spells to pick(not to hard really).

Everytime I hear a melee cry about the balance I gotta turn and say hey maybe you should get a better weapon then that +1 flaming greatsword.

All in all play to 20 then tell us the balance.

[AyumiAmakusa]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...... there is. and they are casters. i don't care if they can't solo "all the quests" they can solo "most of them" i want that too.

i don't want to solo any quest a caster can't solo.

but i want to solo every quest a caster can solo.

That's life. You can't have everything you want.

Deal with it.

[English_Warrior]

whine

Arcanes are heavily backloaded...they get an easier time at higher levels because they are often so useless in the early levels..... its the nature of 3.5.

And overall the game is a lot more balanced than you realise. Stuff like Stat damage/antimagic fields/elemental resistance/deathward/good old fashioned high saves can even the odds considerably.

[Bobthesponge]

OP,

Casters and Clerics tend to solo a lot not because they have these great spells, but because they can HEAL THEMSLEVES. You need to either pump up your UMD to the point where you can scroll/wand heal yourself (i think Heal scroll is 39, but could be wrong) or invest in several stacks of cure pots and drink heavily in quest.

As for the specific example you cited you show a profound ignorance. Casters are less effective in that fight because of the blackbone's resistances. not totally, of course, because desintegrate and magic missle work just fine on him but it isn't a matter of firewall+running away. you need to have a stack of lesser restore on you to restore your stats during the fight as you beat him down. I have solo'd this quest on melee toons before and you just have to make like a boy scout and BE PREPARED. did you have deathward/deathblock on? he casts slay living too, you know. did you bring ghost touch weapons? lotsa wheeps/ghosts/wraiths/shadows in there. do you know the questions and answers for the black dragon? somehow i doubt it.

you need to ask yourself how you let your str and con get to 0 on casual. you should have plenty of indications that you are taking stat damage.

if you want to run a melee based quest at that level go run a few shrouds. for many groups casters are almost an afterthought in there. and no, shroud is not end game but the same level as the abbot raid.

to sum up, you came on the forums to whine about how hard life is when trying to solo a quest ON CASUAL. you weren't prepared and died to the suprise of nobody. if you are new to a quest and need to learn it then that is fine - there are many resources both online and ingame (vets/guildies) who can help you. but to whine and demand that the game change because you died is foolish and immature.