what can be done to balance melee and magic

[flynnjsw]

Well if you understood the super basic stuff and were prepared you could easily take him down on casual. The fact thta you got to zero stat alone says you do not know the basics and were not prepared.

And I'm sorry I gave you credit for the "yes I'm asking what could be done", I hadn't realized you didn't want that truely answered unless someone was going to answer the way you wanted.

He doesn't want help, he wants "balance". IOW the usual "I Win Easy Button".

[Lorien_the_First_One]

i see only one solution.

make casters slower.

it makes sense too. casters are nerds and wisearses. they don't have much muscle.

Nothing in D&D rules would agree with you here. You can for example have an 18 starting str caster. It's actually not uncommon at all for casters to have a good str score.

[Flavilandile]

i said this kiddo;

put blade barrier, run around, boss is dead.

how freaking easy is that?

this is unfair.

he doesn't need anything else, he doesn't need hireling, he doesn't need potions. all he has to do put a bb and run around.

do this, and %98 of all monsters pre-endgame is owned.

this is unfair.

they don't need pure good of ass smacking whateverness +5 and 19 other set of weapons.

and you think it's easy for the cleric until it reaches LVL 11 and get BB ?

I can tell you that It's definitely NOT easy...
I have let see... 1 LVL 20 Cleric, 1 LVL 16 Cleric, 1 LVL 11 Cleric ( just Got BB ), 1 LVL 10 Cleric and a 1 LVL 5 Cleric... ( yeah they finally came ashore from the refugee ship )
Game is not easy on Cleric... and until LVL 11 said cleric better has to have some target with him/her if (s)he wants to see the end of the quest.
It's worse for the wizards : they can't run around in full plate and are usually totally useless in melee because they are soooo squishy...
Ok, On the other hand they get Firewall at LVL 7 and can start kitting then.

So yes around mid game there's a shift between melee rule the playground to caster rule the playground... But it's the same thing in PnP... and even that shift has been toned down in DDO. ( Bigby anybody ? )

Oh, and while I'm at it... you really think that a Cleric with a BB can rule anything ? there's mob out there that just laught when they see a BB...

[Fejj]

Good times here, and for the icing on the cake - minimomo could you post your build / characters name?

I'm willing to bet your a dex based toon, and dumped str and con, then wonder why you can't hit anything and die ...

[minimomo]

Why the hell are you soloing in multiplayer focused game?
Its just a waste of your time, go and try some good single-player games, they'll fit your needs much more than any MMO on market.

i'm not soloing because i want to. but since everyone solo, i want to be able to solo too.

as simple as that.

since 3 months, i have seen only once, someone trying to put a litany party together.

why? because casters can easily solo it and that leaves melees to solo too.

problem is, they can do it easily, at higher difficulities. melees a lot harder, in casual mode.... buying **** weapon just to beat this 1 boss, and then buy another weapon just for this other boss. hireling, potions, etc. etc....

all i am saying is, either make it soloable for all classes or not at all. i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one.

[mobilemuppet]

"i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one"

Nail/head I believe

Back to WoW for you mate

MM

[minimomo]

Good times here, and for the icing on the cake - minimomo could you post your build / characters name?

I'm willing to bet your a dex based toon, and dumped str and con, then wonder why you can't hit anything and die ...

30 str, 26 dex, 26 con, 16 wis with items. +5 weapons.

stop this. really.

if anyone flagged litany and above level 17 they should know about dex and ****. not everyone learned about d&d with this game......

[Lord_WC]

i'm not soloing because i want to. but since everyone solo, i want to be able to solo too.

as simple as that.

You do realise that this means only you play melee toon on your server and everyone else is a divine/arcane caster?
I guess this is not true. And yeah, believe it when they say that with preparation (hell, we're talking about casual, so I'd say with your normal gear/consumables) EVERYONE can solo that boss.

[Xithos]

OP, although it is MUCH easier and faster to level on a caster once they get firewall or a divine after they get blade-barrier (you alluded to this yourself) as opposed to something like a no AC Barbarian, I just don't see that as a problem. DDO is not a balanced game, but I think it is a fun one and in endgame raids and epic quests melee have their place. Some classes/builds are better designed for soloing, but the emphasis in DDO is placed on working as a group.

[minimomo]

"i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one"

Nail/head I believe

Back to WoW for you mate

MM

))) pppp

omg omg...

and you go play mario.

hohohihih.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

problem is, they can do it easily, at higher difficulities. melees a lot harder, in casual mode.... buying **** weapon just to beat this 1 boss, and then buy another weapon just for this other boss. hireling, potions, etc. etc....

all i am saying is, either make it soloable for all classes or not at all. i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one.

See now you are saying the same wrong things again. Several people here have told you already that this quest is soloable by a melee and not only on casual. It is even faster on a melee!

But i guess you dont read these things anyway.

Now whos trolling?

[Jakarr]

all i am saying is, either make it soloable for all classes or not at all. i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one.

Then how do the melees flag for litany...oh nvm no melee characters do the abbot raid right....


LISTEN HERE WE ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU THAT LITANY IS SOLOABLE BY A MELEE CHARACTER, Naw you would rather just cry about it.

I have played multi Characters 1-20 from melee to casting and a bit of both....I find game balance to be very much towards Melee.


AGAIN PLAY TO 20 AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND.




P.s Caps lock is cruise control for cooool

[BlackSteel]

i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a **** quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.

a few points:

1) one you tried this quest on casual. I'm sorry but if you fail a quest on CASUAL you cant go boohooing to the forums. use your head for a minute and figure out why you died and what you can do to prevent that. It doesnt involve awesome gear or super build.

2) 4-5 hours a day is hardcore in my mind. Jeez my wife would likely divorce me if I played 4-5 every day. side note: 4-5 hours is enough time to flag for both litany and abbott. It sounds to me you're just new to the quests. Being unfamiliar with the content is more a detriment than gear. Expect most content to take awhile longer from here out if you're new (except inspired quarter, which was made with the servers young blood in mind).

3) killing that named skele with an arcane or divine (well maybe not now with radiant servant with clerics) is more of a pita than with a prepared high DPS melee. ALL of his attacks can be negated even on a no AC character. His damage is pitiful, its all special effects. If you come prepared he's a joke to solo, and even easier with a cleric hireling (hint hint)

4) a non geared caster will have just as much trouble as a melee in progressing solo in the game, granted this comes at different aspects of the game. A first life arcane will find it very hard to progress past the vale/amrath/reavers refuge if they're going solo and dont have the gear to augment their DC's and spell points. The first couple levels tend to favor the melee, and then casters rule all the midlevel content until you reach high levels again (excluding the inspired quarter which really should be more like lvl 15 content). Casters become support roles again in the high levels unless you have amazing gear. Whats necessary to be effective may have changed with the extra power level of archmage, but I cant really say as my melees tend to just solo reavers refuge and amrath.




FYI, my barbarian can solo this at level on elite without a single other person in group, not even a hireling. He may be twinked to the gills, but if I can do elite, theres no reason you cant get past casual or normal if you just stop for a minute and think about what buffs/potions you need.

[Jakarr]

a few points:

1) one you tried this quest on casual. I'm sorry but if you fail a quest on CASUAL you cant go boohooing to the forums. use your head for a minute and figure out why you died and what you can do to prevent that. It doesnt involve awesome gear or super build.

2) 4-5 hours a day is hardcore in my mind. Jeez my wife would likely divorce me if I played 4-5 every day. side note: 4-5 hours is enough time to flag for both litany and abbott. It sounds to me you're just new to the quests. Being unfamiliar with the content is more a detriment than gear. Expect most content to take awhile longer from here out if you're new (except inspired quarter, which was made with the servers young blood in mind).

3) killing that named skele with an arcane or divine (well maybe not now with radiant servant with clerics) is more of a pita than with a prepared high DPS melee. ALL of his attacks can be negated even on a no AC character. His damage is pitiful, its all special effects. If you come prepared he's a joke to solo, and even easier with a cleric hireling (hint hint)

4) a non geared caster will have just as much trouble as a melee in progressing solo in the game, granted this comes at different aspects of the game. A first life arcane will find it very hard to progress past the vale/amrath/reavers refuge if they're going solo and dont have the gear to augment their DC's and spell points. The first couple levels tend to favor the melee, and then casters rule all the midlevel content until you reach high levels again (excluding the inspired quarter which really should be more like lvl 15 content). Casters become support roles again in the high levels unless you have amazing gear. Whats necessary to be effective may have changed with the extra power level of archmage, but I cant really say as my melees tend to just solo reavers refuge and amrath.




FYI, my barbarian can solo this at level on elite without a single other person in group, not even a hireling. He may be twinked to the gills, but if I can do elite, theres no reason you cant get past casual or normal if you just stop for a minute and think about what buffs/potions you need.

Stop talking sense, he doesn't want to hear how your Melee can solo a quest on elite that he couldn't on casual with his melee.

[lucid8]

BTW what is that song on the crucible video its jammin.

[Flavilandile]

since 3 months, i have seen only once, someone trying to put a litany party together.

Maybe it has a tiny bit to do with the fact that Necropolis is not loved... and that at that level people prefer to run the vale and the shroud or hell, even the reaver's refuge quests instead of wasting time in the Orchard/Necropolis quests.

But that's just my two €-cents for the lack of LFM.

It doesn't change the fact that this quest can be soloed with any class as long as you are prepared.

[minimomo]

you know what i won't type anymore stuff. i said what i have to say and if any dev read this it's enough for me.

one last time; they should do something about bosses like that litany blackguard, so when a caster attempt to kite them, maybe he can switch to bow or something...

ummm, not went through the bb but go around it?


it is just stupid. put a bb and run around. i mean yeah, this is undead can be dumb. but all the creatures including elfs and humans tend to go through things. stay in the middle of firewall etc.

whatever...

[Lear_beta]

that's my point. the game is not balance for solo. it should be balanced. i hate this as a melee toon user. i'm letting devs know and caster users of course trying to prove me wrong because they like this imbalance which make them solo everything.

thanks for that! this game was never intended as a solo game. it used to be a mark of excellence to be able to solo e.g. litany, reaver or dq. now a days it's common as hell. I'd prefer they kick out dungeon scaling and make smaller groups work for it again.

Classes aren't balanced against each other, nor should they be. some quests a melee solo much better than a caster. at mid levels... I'd rather solo e.g. relic with a melee than my caster because it'll go much much faster that way.

if you need a caster to solo, bring a hireling. they help tons and are cheap as well.

have you tried to make your own lfm for litany, what were the results? even if you only got 2 other melee's why not grap 3 hirelings and trio it?

sadly, i know this are not what you intended, but you come across as a "I want to win, not to be challenged!" (and soloing even on a caster is still a challenge in other quests!) .

Many forum dwellers remember a time when getting through the first real quest in DDO killed most rogues and casters as they ran out of sp and couldn't melee, we adapted and has continued to adapt to the game and it's changes. give it time, try a caster or a cleric and see what it feels like.

there should never be balance between the classes imho.

[mobilemuppet]

I quote again

"i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one"

Learn how to play your melee correctly then and you will be able to solo!!

MM

[Farayon]

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

Since the other parts of your posts have been discussed and explained already, I'll step forward and express my surprise about that statement.

You call 4-5 hours of DDO per day not hardcore?

I get to play some 5 hrs per week and would call that above casual.

Maybe you should take a little break from playing to stop becoming so very upset about a small setback in the game. Take the time away from DDO to refine your strategies rather than calling for nerfs and game changes that nobody needs or wants.