level 20 ranger asking a 18/1/1 ranger for fom?

[NaturalHazard]

It took me aback a little in shroud to be asked by the level 20 pure AA ranger for FOM and neut poison. I asked him what level 4 spell he used instead of fom and he answered the summons? Apparently its crucial to his playstlye? Each to his own but I didnt understand why he didnt swap it out at the part 1 shrine for fom then put it back to the summons after the quest?

As a ranger I think of it as my duty to not only hand out the barkskin to the monks/ pallys/fighters with the ac builds. But to also hand out the neut poisen, resists, and fom if needed.

I got a bauble i can put fom bark neut and resists on the whole raid and still have a full sp bar even if I dont use the shrine.

[grodon9999]

The guy's an idiot, no ranger should be asking for these buffs ever.

[NaturalHazard]

well it kind of concerns me as this is not the only time its happened. Also in lower levels i get a little concerned witht the rangers who dont ever use bulls str or barkskin, i mean rams might. They always summon stuff that just immdiatly dies after causing problems as well. And these are often the people who run backwards at a rate of knots aggroing the whole map, and often have 6/8/10 con, and scream at you if you make a suggestion to stop telling them how to play and how they are sick of people telling them how to play ect ect. The flip side is after experiancing ranger players like this no one wants to have a ranger join their lfm.

[DrNuegebauer]

Neutralize poison pot lasts 7 minutes and is available at the vendor in Meridia.

Nobody should be asking for that as a buff while in the shroud - LET ALONE the guy who could not only pot it, but could cast it - or alternatively wand it!

[AylinIsAwesome]

Neutralize poison pot lasts 7 minutes and is available at the vendor in Meridia.

Nobody should be asking for that as a buff while in the shroud - LET ALONE the guy who could not only pot it, but could cast it - or alternatively wand it!

I'll never forget the Rogue with a Wizard level I met in Shroud once who yelled at me for not giving him Resist Poison when I solo-healed the raid for his guild on my FvS.

When I told him he should just drink pots, he said they were too expensive. So I sent him some.

Here's the response I got...

[StupendoThug]

Yeah Aylin. He sure told you where to put it. Also, a real healer spams Break Enchantment into the group ALONG WITH their mass heals/cures at all times because the meele should never have to remove their own curses.

[NaturalHazard]

I'll never forget the Rogue with a Wizard level I met in Shroud once who yelled at me for not giving him Resist Poison when I solo-healed the raid for his guild on my FvS.

When I told him he should just drink pots, he said they were too expensive. So I sent him some.

Here's the response I got...

Didnt he realise that your a fs so have a limmited spell selection? i never take anything for granted when it comes to fs and sorc buffing spells. I dont have any idea about how many spells you get at that level and what you get to choose from so have no idea. Pots =win cause you cant always count on someone having what you need or death or debuffs during quests.

[Aztek]

I have no problem with a ranger who does WIS as a dump stat to focus on STR, etc. and so cannot really put those buffs on the whole group, especially with multiclassed rangers (we're talking 6-12 levels or so).

However... even with 8 base WIS, you can put on a +6 WIS item to cast any ranger spell in the game (level 4 spells need 14 WIS) and should be at least able to buff yourself. Then switch out of the WIS item for something else after the spells are cast and the SP bar drops.

I get mad at myself when i dump components to make backpack space and forget to replace them before a quest where i need to cast jump or FOM, etc. I don't expect a ranger to put all the buffs ont he whole party but they should be at minimum be able to self-buff resists, jump, poison, FOM and wand whip remove disease if they don't load the spell. Heck they can use a poison wand if they don't want to carry the spell or components!

And yes, you are correct - there are tons of shrines in Shroud. No excuse to not be able to switch spells.

...Dex build TR pure ranger 17 with decent CON and STR.

[NaturalHazard]

I have no problem with a ranger who does WIS as a dump stat to focus on STR, etc. and so cannot really put those buffs on the whole group, especially with multiclassed rangers (we're talking 6-12 levels or so).

However... even with 8 base WIS, you can put on a +6 WIS item to cast any ranger spell in the game (level 4 spells need 14 WIS) and should be at least able to buff yourself. Then switch out of the WIS item for something else after the spells are cast and the SP bar drops.

I get mad at myself when i dump components to make backpack space and forget to replace them before a quest where i need to cast jump or FOM, etc. I don't expect a ranger to put all the buffs ont he whole party but they should be at minimum be able to self-buff resists, jump, poison, FOM and wand whip remove disease if they don't load the spell. Heck they can use a poison wand if they don't want to carry the spell or components!


...Dex build TR pure ranger 17 with decent CON and STR.

Fair enough it might be too much to ask for those rangers who dump wis to buff an entire party. I do it cause i can, i have 550 + sp cause of build and items. And rangers should be at least able to buff themselves with those spells. I also remmeber instances where mid level rangers where asking for resists, not cause they had no sp left but cause they put another spell into the slot.
And yes, you are correct - there are tons of shrines in Shroud. No excuse to not be able to switch spells.

[CaptainCameo]

I wouldn't expect them to have potions for neu. poison, but I would expect a ranger to have neu. poison as a spell, or at least a proof against poison item. But you know, if others are passing it out, why not let them pass it to you?

[hermespan]

in lower levels i get a little concerned witht the rangers who dont ever use bulls str or barkskin, i mean rams might.

Some people take 6 levels of ranger for Tempest I and free twf feats, and wisdom is a dump stat for their build since spells cast at level 6 ranger are useless at cap, outside of ram's might, which they'll have at cap anyway since their +6 wisdom item will get them to the minimum needed to cast spells.

For an end game target of Tempest I/Assassin II or kensei II or FB II or [whatever], no matter how you slice it, wisdom is a hair more important than a dump stat. That means no casting on this build til you get a high enough wisdom item to hit the threshold for casting. You put the extra points into STR and CON as well as INT for traps, search and Assassin PrE for a ranger/rogue dps build (as an example).

One of my pet peeves is people that think they know everything and try to tell you you are doing it wrong when they don't understand the build goals or the fact that I'll out DPS them in end game 2:1 or better. Unless you care to ask about the goals, dps and intent of the build, don't talk to anyone about their character because you don't know anything about where they are going with their end game build, therefore aren't qualified to comment on it or their lack of casting ability at low level.

That barkskin and bulls str cast at ranger level 6 is utterly useless at cap. Why do I care if I don't have it at level 7? Why do you care? All I want out of ranger casting is ram's might and I'll have that when I'm done. My dps is still better than most characters without it at that level. I'll have ITWF and OTWF, and khopesh feat by then.

If you don't first bother to ask about someone's end game build goals and what they are doing, you are wrong before you open your mouth to criticize them.

Someone's class icon says very little about where their build is going to be in end game, especially below level 12.

Of course you wouldn't know this. I can tell since you said what you said. It's ok, forums are here for us to learn something.

Ranger is a very good class to splash a PrE with. To most of us who multiclass, that's all we care about is the PrE, TWF feats, and ram's might, maybe evasion if it's a ranger/fighter, so there's a REALLY good chance that someone with 6 levels of ranger, mixed with fighter, barb, rogue or something else, won't be able to cast at levels 1-8 (for example). The casting ability is the least attractive part of ranger for a 6 level splash, so it's not a priority, though having ram's might in end game should be a goal of any tempest I build. +2 str that stacks with everything is not something you should pass up.

DDO (Indeed D&D) is a very complicated game, especially when it comes to multiclass builds. Very little is cut and dried. You will learn that most assumptions you make when you are starting out, _especially_ with regard to class descriptions, roles, etc, end up being proven wrong. Keep an open mind and ask questions.

Feel free to criticize when you have a thorough understanding of my build and why I made the choices I did. Til then, ask questions ;-)

[Glenalth]

It took me aback a little in shroud to be asked by the level 20 pure AA ranger for FOM and neut poison. I asked him what level 4 spell he used instead of fom and he answered the summons?

He's even dumber than that.

4th level spells...
Cure Serious, Freedom of Movement, Mass Longstrider, Summon Nature's Ally 4

Choose 4.

[shores11]

It took me aback a little in shroud to be asked by the level 20 pure AA ranger for FOM and neut poison. I asked him what level 4 spell he used instead of fom and he answered the summons? Apparently its crucial to his playstlye? Each to his own but I didnt understand why he didnt swap it out at the part 1 shrine for fom then put it back to the summons after the quest?

As a ranger I think of it as my duty to not only hand out the barkskin to the monks/ pallys/fighters with the ac builds. But to also hand out the neut poisen, resists, and fom if needed.

I got a bauble i can put fom bark neut and resists on the whole raid and still have a full sp bar even if I dont use the shrine.

I agree that it is borderline gimpy play for this player not to be prepared. I certainly carry all of these spells on my ranger and rarely ever ask for any buffs as I can buff myself just fine.

However I will counter one of your points that it is a rangers job to buff the party with the spells you mentioned above. Most ranger players will carry between 300-400 SP, I personally have approximately 340 or so. I will throw out a barkskin to the melee fighters or at least the ones that have a decent AC already as a character with 25 AC is not going to benefit from a barkskin. Because my SP is not all that great I will usually start a quest after buffing with a little less than half of my SP bar left. I use this for a quick heal or refresh buff if I havn't made it to another shrine just yet.

After all I did not roll up a ranger to buff a party although like I said I often help a little but I will never provide all the buffs you mentioned.

[Hadrian]

There are all sorts of builds out there. Try not to judge someone by what you expect from their icons.

Granted, it takes little effort to buff yourself with a few basic ranger spells, but we've all done stupid things like forget to buy components or switch spells when goofing off and forget to switch them back.

Also, sometimes people min/max to an extreme degree and might really only be built to do DPS. As long as they do fill their intended role well, I see no reason to give them a hard time about something trivial. It takes two seconds to cast FOM on someone, and I probably have 3-4 times as many SPs as he does. I can see if someone built purely for DPS wants to reserve his SPs for combat.

Think of him as a barbarian, and wait to give him a hard time until he fails at that.

[NaturalHazard]

There are all sorts of builds out there. Try not to judge someone by what you expect from their icons.

Granted, it takes little effort to buff yourself with a few basic ranger spells, but we've all done stupid things like forget to buy components or switch spells when goofing off and forget to switch them back.

Also, sometimes people min/max to an extreme degree and might really only be built to do DPS. As long as they do fill their intended role well, I see no reason to give them a hard time about something trivial. It takes two seconds to cast FOM on someone, and I probably have 3-4 times as many SPs as he does. I can see if someone built purely for DPS wants to reserve his SPs for combat.

Think of him as a barbarian, and wait to give him a hard time until he fails at that.

He was an AA, so he would have mental toughness yeah? And where would he use his sp for combate? hes not a paladin with dps boostig spells with short cool downs to ect to cast? componants where not the issue. Sure I dont mind heres your fom, but if you die get debuffed dont expect me to be able to recast it on you while we are in the thick of things. Thats the advantage of being able to do it yourself, and I dont think hes going to lose much by having FOM memorized in this case.

[Hadrian]

He was an AA, so he would have mental toughness yeah? And where would he use his sp for combate? hes not a paladin with dps boostig spells with short cool downs to ect to cast? componants where not the issue. Sure I dont mind heres your fom, but if you die get debuffed dont expect me to be able to recast it on you while we are in the think of things. Thats the advantage of being able to do it yourself, and I dont think hes going to lose much by having FOM memorized in this case.

It doesn't really matter. Some people are just out to have fun, and he's apparently one of them. I mean, I don't often expect an AA to be a contributing party member in the first place.

As long as he didn't cause a problem, it's probably best to just let him play how he wants. You'll enjoy PUGs a lot more if you just accept that you're going to see a lot of random builds and build ideas. Even if you *know* it's a bad idea, the quest isn't that hard in the first place and it's not worth the drama.

Maybe he was using his spell points to heal his pets. Sounds like the perfect use!

[NaturalHazard]

It doesn't really matter. Some people are just out to have fun, and he's apparently one of them. I mean, I don't often expect an AA to be a contributing party member in the first place.

As long as he didn't cause a problem, it's probably best to just let him play how he wants. You'll enjoy PUGs a lot more if you just accept that you're going to see a lot of random builds and build ideas. Even if you *know* it's a bad idea, the quest isn't that hard in the first place and it's not worth the drama.

Maybe he was using his spell points to heal his pets. Sounds like the perfect use!

Thank god he didnt summon any in part 2 and 3 lolz, oh well ok.

Dude im from khyber we live on drama...... or is it live for drama?

[Guilllotine]

It doesn't really matter. Some people are just out to have fun, and he's apparently one of them. I mean, I don't often expect an AA to be a contributing party member in the first place.

As long as he didn't cause a problem, it's probably best to just let him play how he wants. You'll enjoy PUGs a lot more if you just accept that you're going to see a lot of random builds and build ideas. Even if you *know* it's a bad idea, the quest isn't that hard in the first place and it's not worth the drama.

Maybe he was using his spell points to heal his pets. Sounds like the perfect use!

I agree with your thinking here, its a game, its a PUG, we are all here to have fun, cast it on him, "kindly inform" him of the issue you're having and be on your way to completion. done and done

[NaturalHazard]

Well I think of it as "my" key word being my duty to do that if asked, not every rangers duty, sorry i should of been clearer about that.

[jcTharin]

It took me aback a little in shroud to be asked by the level 20 pure AA ranger for FOM and neut poison. I asked him what level 4 spell he used instead of fom and he answered the summons? Apparently its crucial to his playstlye? Each to his own but I didnt understand why he didnt swap it out at the part 1 shrine for fom then put it back to the summons after the quest?

As a ranger I think of it as my duty to not only hand out the barkskin to the monks/ pallys/fighters with the ac builds. But to also hand out the neut poisen, resists, and fom if needed.

I got a bauble i can put fom bark neut and resists on the whole raid and still have a full sp bar even if I dont use the shrine.

...

Rangers at level 20 get 4 level 4 spell slots. There are only 4 level 4 ranger spells.

This confounds me. It can’t be because he doesn't have the wisdom to cast level 4 spells, he said he can use the summon.

Did he forget to fill that last spell slot? The game sends you a warning if you don't have all your spell slots filed.

Was he out of sp? That’s the only possible reason I can think of.