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  1. #1
    Community Member Rutabaga's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Virtuoso looking for some serious build feedback, end game in mind.

    Hey all, so I currently have a level 20, 28 point virtuoso bard. I started out wanting to play a spellsinger and CC with spells but as time went on, I found it was more beneficial to CC with my songs, saving my post buff mana for back up healing. At any rate, I will be TRing and would like to accomplish the same type of thing second time around.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Dotti Ark
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
    (20 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 222
    Spell Points: 837 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    16
    Dexterity            16                    18
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             16                    26
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    27
    Concentration         6                    25
    Haggle                7                    31
    Jump                  5                    25
    Perform               7                    37
    Use Magic Device      7                    31
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso II
    Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Perform I
    Enhancement: Improved Perform II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    The idea here is to dual wield 2x earthgrab heavy picks for the auto crit procs and x4 modifiers.

    My main concern is that I am spreading myself too thin to be viable end game. I was considering swapping OTWF to weapon finesse, changing the weapons to light picks and then spending some points in strength elsewhere. Once I say that though, I feel like I'd be better off just adding some tomes. The current build only requires a +1 dex tome at level 3, as I wanted to leave myself open to other options and have room for improvement.

    Really looking forward to everyone's input, and thanks in advance for your time.
    "Did you eat paint chips as a child?"
    "You mean wall candy?"

  2. #2
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    Keeping with your build concept -

    I would drop OTWF and pick up Quicken - it's really good if you want to main heal tougher content.

    I would swap Maximise with Empower Healing - gives you stronger heals.

    You need to pick up the healing line of enhancments.

    You can probably still get ok spell CC with starting charisma of 16 and level ups - but it will be very hit and miss (no level ups, no heighten, no feats), so you could consider dropping the charisma to 14 or so, and putting extra points into str/con, and level ups into str.

    This would leave you with a build that can:
    CC: well with songs. Not spells.
    Heal: well with Maximise, quicken, enhancements. Bit more limited in sp.
    DPS: Have a decent dps option.

    Put 1 rank into tumble.

    HTH
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  3. #3
    Community Member Gorbadoc's Avatar
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    Unless you definitely prefer the flavor of humans, play around with the numbers for a halfling build. The stats come out about the same, better if you don't mind starting with a lower strength. Each race has its advantages; pick the set of advantages that works best with your play style. I'll highlight what I think are some of the more important bits for your stated play style.

    Humans get the extra feat, Human Versatility (+skills for UMD checks, +attack/damage/AC as appropriate to a given melee encounter, etc.), extra skill points, and a slight strength advantage (it's slight, because your 16 starting dex is so much cheaper on a halfling).

    Halflings have nice team-play abilities. The sneak attack enhancements should work well with your stated Earthgrab tactic, and of course sneak attack is useful generally if you're partnering with a heavier-hitting tank. Heroic companion again plays into the sidekick function; the bonuses stack with everything so you throw HC on your tank buddy, and you rush into melee right behind him.

    You mentioned spreading yourself thin, and it's a good thing to worry about. Conventional wisdom says you should focus on your spell DCs or your melee DPS/survivability, but not both. I tend to agree. I think you'll find this build most rewarding if you start with roughly your listed stats (more on that later), but take strength instead of charisma at level up. If you really want the charisma, go all-out; start with 18, and get all those fancy Spell Focus and Heightening feats that are so popular among Spellsingers.

    Regarding initial stats, I personally would go halfling (because I love halflings) with 12 or 13 (MAYBE 14) base strength, and I would dump the spare points into Intelligence. With the extra skill points, I would pick up Hide and Move Silently (to about 15 ranks at level 20). That's my personal playstyle preference, mind you; if you share my tastes, it'll serve you well to follow the recommendations of this paragraph, but you definitely won't be gimped by having a different style.

    If you haven't already, play around with Invisibility, Stealth Mode, and Enthrallment. Once you get the hang of it, you'll start wondering why anyone doesn't play a bard.

    Oh, and listen to whatever Bobo says; he knows bards.
    Last edited by Gorbadoc; 11-03-2010 at 02:56 AM.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I would go STR-based: you haven't taken any DC-boosting feats and it sounds like you don't plan to focus on CC spells; in which case you don't need nearly so much CHA on a Virt, IMHO.

    So maybe something like this:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
    (20 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 272
    Spell Points: 612 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity            15                    17
    Constitution         14                    18
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             12                    16
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Bardic Dilettante
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers
    Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso II
    Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Improved Perform I
    Enhancement: Improved Perform II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

  5. #5
    Community Member Rutabaga's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
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    8

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    First off, thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. My responses to your comments are in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    Keeping with your build concept -

    I would drop OTWF and pick up Quicken - it's really good if you want to main heal tougher content.
    I wasn't really planning on main healing anything with my bard. However, I consider OTWF to be my expendable feat, so I can always swap it out later with my free exchange.

    I would swap Maximise with Empower Healing - gives you stronger heals.
    So, for some reason (brain fart), I was under the impression that these two feats give the same healing bonus, but that maximize worked with damage spells as well. I just revisited the compendium and agree, maximize > empower healing.

    You need to pick up the healing line of enhancments.
    Yeah, I was worried about not having them. The main problem/weakness of this build is that since I'm getting virtuoso though Extra Song IV instead of a feat, I'm a bit more limited on points.

    You could consider dropping the charisma to 14 or so, and putting extra points into str/con, and level ups into str.
    This would leave you with a build that can:
    CC: well with songs. Not spells.
    Heal: well with Maximise, quicken, enhancements. Bit more limited in sp.
    DPS: Have a decent dps option.
    I had put my level ups into charisma so that I'd have a larger mana pool, UMD concerns and I also wasn't sure how high of a preform I need.

    Put 1 rank into tumble.
    I did that in creation, but didn't bother listing the stat since it was just the 1 point.

    HTH

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbadoc View Post
    Unless you definitely prefer the flavor of humans, play around with the numbers for a halfling build. The stats come out about the same, better if you don't mind starting with a lower strength. Each race has its advantages; pick the set of advantages that works best with your play style. I'll highlight what I think are some of the more important bits for your stated play style.

    Humans get the extra feat, Human Versatility (+skills for UMD checks, +attack/damage/AC as appropriate to a given melee encounter, etc.), extra skill points, and a slight strength advantage (it's slight, because your 16 starting dex is so much cheaper on a halfling).

    Halflings have nice team-play abilities. The sneak attack enhancements should work well with your stated Earthgrab tactic, and of course sneak attack is useful generally if you're partnering with a heavier-hitting tank. Heroic companion again plays into the sidekick function; the bonuses stack with everything so you throw HC on your tank buddy, and you rush into melee right behind him.

    You mentioned spreading yourself thin, and it's a good thing to worry about. Conventional wisdom says you should focus on your spell DCs or your melee DPS/survivability, but not both. I tend to agree. I think you'll find this build most rewarding if you start with roughly your listed stats (more on that later), but take strength instead of charisma at level up. If you really want the charisma, go all-out; start with 18, and get all those fancy Spell Focus and Heightening feats that are so popular among Spellsingers.

    Regarding initial stats, I personally would go halfling (because I love halflings) with 12 or 13 (MAYBE 14) base strength, and I would dump the spare points into Intelligence. With the extra skill points, I would pick up Hide and Move Silently (to about 15 ranks at level 20). That's my personal playstyle preference, mind you; if you share my tastes, it'll serve you well to follow the recommendations of this paragraph, but you definitely won't be gimped by having a different style.

    If you haven't already, play around with Invisibility, Stealth Mode, and Enthrallment. Once you get the hang of it, you'll start wondering why anyone doesn't play a bard.

    Oh, and listen to whatever Bobo says; he knows bards.

    I prefer halflings as well, and my current bard is one. I'm picking human not so much because I like them but more for the extra feat, skill points, and because halflings have -1 to damage (I think).
    So it seems that the general consensus is to lower my starting charisma a bit and put more points and skill ups into strength and constitution. I worked around with that a bit and came up with this build. I added a + 1 tome of strength to end with even stats.


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Dotti Ark
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
    (20 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 252
    Spell Points: 721 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    22
    Dexterity            16                    18
    Constitution         15                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    27
    Concentration         6                    26
    Haggle                6                    27
    Jump                  6                    28
    Perform               6                    33
    Tumble                4                     5
    Use Magic Device      6                    27
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso II
    Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Improved Perform I
    Enhancement: Improved Perform II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    "Did you eat paint chips as a child?"
    "You mean wall candy?"

  6. #6
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    consider dropping 2 energy of music talents 7 ap for 40 hp is just to steep of a price imo.

    Consider dropping 1 damage enh saving another 3 ap totalling up to 10 ap wich you can use.. for. song magic 3 and 4 giving 20% increase to healing and maybe human imp recovery 10% healing amp giving you 1 ap left

    you can also consider dropping lingering song 4 lingering song 4 is just overkill and frees up 4 ap +1 =5 wich you can invest into imp human recovery II wich enh your inc heals by 20% and the last point you can put into the crit for heals

    If you want to melee its just nice that youre able to heal yourself to full when **** hits the fan pair this with maximise and youre and 12% crit youre looking at 160+ normal heals and 290+ crits its decent to keep yourself up wich is pretty important if you want to cc effectively.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post

    Consider dropping 1 damage enh saving another 3 ap totalling up to 10 ap wich you can use..
    Never drop the effectiveness of your songs - keep damage and attack maxed.

    I agree that the OP needs to max the healing line, so they should probably drop EOM 3+4 to make room for song magic.

    You are right, the OP could also drop lingering song 3and4 - 7AP to sing songs less often doesn't seem worth it to me. However, that probably depends on playstyle.
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  8. #8
    Hero Aashrym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartosy View Post
    Consider dropping 1 damage enh saving another 3 ap
    I agree with Bobo. Dropping inspire courage enhancements is pretty hard to justify looking at the alternatives.

    I have a hard time dropping lingering song too because it is a big impact to sustaining song (or spellsong vigor) benefits, but I would definitely look at that before inspire courage enhancements.

    Energy of the music is expensive for a few SP. I would drop all of it before dropping lingering song or inspired courage enhancements. That makes room for song magic.

    I would also consider dropping some human adaptability and racial toughness III. That becomes an expensive 10 hp. More wand and scroll would be helpful.

    So I think there is room in a few areas for some juggling outside of some of what I would consider more important enhancements.

  9. #9
    Community Member Rutabaga's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input everyone. This build was designed around trying to minimize tome usage to allow room for improvement. I ended up skipping out on the human adaptability and energy of music in favor of the upping my wand and healing %'s. If I don't get the tomes I need from questing I can just buy the ones I do once I get to 20- any extras will be icing on the cake.

    Anyhow this is what I ended up with. In my experience, in longer dungeons with only one rest shrine, having those few extra songs to use for CC because I didn't have to sing them to buff really helped out the group, so I opted to keep lingering song maxed. I'm not too terribly concerned with it since enhancements are easily changed.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Dotti Ark
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
    (20 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 242
    Spell Points: 681 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    22
    Dexterity            16                    18
    Constitution         15                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    27
    Concentration         6                    26
    Haggle                6                    27
    Jump                  6                    28
    Perform               6                    33
    Tumble                4                     5
    Use Magic Device      6                    27
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso II
    Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Perform I
    Enhancement: Improved Perform II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    "Did you eat paint chips as a child?"
    "You mean wall candy?"

  10. #10
    Hero Aashrym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
    Thanks for the input everyone. This build was designed around trying to minimize tome usage to allow room for improvement. I ended up skipping out on the human adaptability and energy of music in favor of the upping my wand and healing %'s. If I don't get the tomes I need from questing I can just buy the ones I do once I get to 20- any extras will be icing on the cake.

    Anyhow this is what I ended up with. In my experience, in longer dungeons with only one rest shrine, having those few extra songs to use for CC because I didn't have to sing them to buff really helped out the group, so I opted to keep lingering song maxed. I'm not too terribly concerned with it since enhancements are easily changed.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Dotti Ark
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
    (20 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 242
    Spell Points: 681 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    22
    Dexterity            16                    18
    Constitution         15                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    27
    Concentration         6                    26
    Haggle                6                    27
    Jump                  6                    28
    Perform               6                    33
    Tumble                4                     5
    Use Magic Device      6                    27
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
    Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso II
    Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Perform I
    Enhancement: Improved Perform II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    I like this much better. You could get away with removing lingering song IV for music of the dead and music of the maker if you want them. I think that would be worth it. Not a requirement but a possibility. Or your second tier energy of the music for music of the dead. Just a random thought.

  11. #11
    Community Member
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    Looks good.

    You can always fool around with your enhancements. As long as you are set on your starting stats and skills, and fairly set of your feats, you can experiment for low cost with the rest.
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  12. #12
    Community Member
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    Sep 2009
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    If you want to hit autocrit mobs all you need is Dreamspitter.

  13. #13
    Community Member Gorbadoc's Avatar
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    Feb 2008
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    Did we never address that "Halflings get -1 to damage" myth?

    Here's the deal: Halflings don't have a directly-coded -1 to damage. They get -2 to strength (6 is their minimum; it costs them as many points to get 14 strength as it costs a human to get 16 strength, etc.). Every two points of strength equals +1attack and +1 damage, hence -2 strength leads to -1 damage.

    However, when halfling is one of the preferred races for a build, it's because the build is not designed for strength alone. For example, suppose I want a TWF melee build, but I picked a class that needs to spread its stats (maybe it's a paladin in need of charisma, maybe it's a monk in need of wisdom). I have a +1 dex tome in the bank (base 16 dex and +1 tome unlocks ITWF and GTWF), and I'm choosing between Human, Halfling, and Elf.

    Human:
    14 str (costs 6)
    16 dex (costs 10)
    14 con (costs 6)

    Halfling:
    14 str (costs 10)
    16 dex (costs 6)
    14 con (costs 6)

    Elf:
    14 str (costs 6)
    16 dex (costs 6)
    14 con (costs 10)

    Three races, exact same starting physical stats, and because of the way the bonuses and penalties work out, they all cost the same number of ability score points. Now, obviously, this comparison would not work if I were willing to take 12 constitution; Elf would clearly win that comparison. And if I wanted to sacrifice some charisma to bump my strength up to 16, Human would be the preferred choice. Bard design is notorious for involving this balancing act; you have so many good options for your feats, APs, and ability score points, plus so many racial advantages to consider. You have the opportunity to fine-tune your character's strengths (and weaknesses) to match your play style.

    In short: Halflings do get -2 strength; however, it's disingenuous to say that this always translates into -1 damage.
    Last edited by Gorbadoc; 11-06-2010 at 12:40 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbadoc View Post
    Did we never address that "Halflings get -1 to damage" myth?
    Sssssshhhhhhhh. We don't want more people joining the ranks of the Halfling elite.
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

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