Permadeath Arch-Mage 18wiz/2rog

[Talltale-Storyteller]

So let me preface this with a few statements.

1. This toon is going to be permadeath.
2. I am not overly concerned about end game as I do not think I will actually survive to level 20.
3. If I DO survive to level 20 I am not concerned with epics.
4. I have never played an arcane.
EDIT: I chose half-elf for party healing, not self healing.
EDIT: After readin other's suggestions, my starting Wis will be 12, and starting Cha will be 14 to exchange cleric dil for the Paladin feat.

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Rasheem The Balanced
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 176
Spell Points: 1211 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 17
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         18                    27
Wisdom               14                    14
Charisma             12                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     4
Bluff                 1                     1
Concentration         4                    20
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device        8                    31
Haggle                5                     7
Heal                  2                     2
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     1
Jump                  3                     3
Listen                2                     2
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock             3                     3
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                8                    12
Search                8                    31
Spot                  6                    25
Swim                  3                     3
Tumble                3                     3
Use Magic Device      5                    17

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Conjuration


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Force I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Force II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Arcane Blast
Enhancement: Arcane Bolt
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage I
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage II
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage III
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage IV
Enhancement: Archmage Mastery I: Evocation
Enhancement: Archmage Spell Mastery I: Enchantment
Enhancement: Archmage Spell Mastery II: Enchantment
Enhancement: Conjuration I - Grease
Enhancement: Conjuration II - Web
Enhancement: Enchantment I - Hypnotism
Enhancement: Evocation I - Magic Missle
Enhancement: Evocation II - Gust of Wind
Enhancement: Evocation III - Chain Missles

I chose Half-elf to be able to use cleric wands while levelling and before my UMD got to a decent level. I do not know how important concentration is, and/or where the max ranks I should put into UMD is. My main goal for the UMD is just to be able to raise and use heal scrolls.

Also the only tome I listed is a +1 int tome, because by selling collectibles I feel I have a decent chance of pulling a cheap one off of the AH by that level.

The idea is to have a PD toon that can fill multiple roles in the party (kind of) as we short man alot of content so this toon's goal was to be able to do the following:

1. Crowd Control
2. Arcane buffs
3. Arcane DPS
4. Full trap skills
5. UMD Raises and Heal scrolls
6. Have evasion


I think this build meets those parameters fairly well, but I'm sure there are things I could be doing more efficiently, especially my enhancements, again this is my first arcane.

Any feedback is very much appreciated!

[richieelias27]

Warforged with immunities and self repair makes a much much better permadeath wizard than half-elf with wands. Costs less to sustain as well.

[phalaeo]

Warforged with immunities and self repair makes a much much better permadeath wizard than half-elf with wands. Costs less to sustain as well.

Exactly- I assume you've got the 14 Wisdom for dilettante?
Dump the Wisdom, go WF, max out Int and Con....Especially if this is your first arcane and double especially if it's PD.

[Mangloid]

For an 18/2 it will be very tricky fitting in Arch Mage. Also (as pointed out buy a fellow guild member who recently TRd and tried leveling as a Arch mage) your damage from spells are a lot weaker at lower levels due to trying fulfill the pre's for Arch Mage.

I'd also suggest that you go WF, and that follow The Tinkerer build http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=205649

The above posted build also lists a link for a specific breakdown on what skills to take. Overall it's a very effective build that should fill your caster and rogue spot while giving you really good survivability.

[Archer001]

you get a wizard bonus feat at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20

[Talltale-Storyteller]

I should have also prefaced that I am racist towards WF arcanes

I do not solo often, so the half elf cleric feat is not to be able to heal ME, its to be able to heal my PARTY. I have only gotten this toon to level 3 so far, but already being able to wand whip those cleric wands has saved the day multiple times.

The UMD is to be able to heal scroll and raise other party members. Basically so my guy can do both the Rogue AND the arcanes job, but also in a pinch can throw some heals and raise dead.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

For an 18/2 it will be very tricky fitting in Arch Mage. Also (as pointed out buy a fellow guild member who recently TRd and tried leveling as a Arch mage) your damage from spells are a lot weaker at lower levels due to trying fulfill the pre's for Arch Mage.

I'd also suggest that you go WF, and that follow The Tinkerer build http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=205649

The above posted build also lists a link for a specific breakdown on what skills to take. Overall it's a very effective build that should fill your caster and rogue spot while giving you really good survivability.

Two notes:

1. Thanks for linking the Tinkerer build, it does look solid. However one of my goals for the build is to be able to UMD heal scrolls and raise scrolls - The Tinkerer does not meet that parameter.

2. The enhancements WERE very tight, however I made them fit (see planner export in OP) I'm not sure if in terms of casting I made the best decisions with my enhancements. I tried to emphasis fire and ice (for polar ray and fire wall etc.) and force (arcane bolt etc and magic and chain missles) for damage and Enchantment for DCs.

However I do not know if the enhancements were done well or not.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Exactly- I assume you've got the 14 Wisdom for dilettante?
Dump the Wisdom, go WF, max out Int and Con....Especially if this is your first arcane and double especially if it's PD.

I do have the wisdom req (see OP) and also the Wisdom is to help with spot since I only play PD and have not seen alot of content beyond GH.

Also the half elf feat is not for self healing, but party healing while my UMD is getting to useful levels.

[Mangloid]

Two notes:

1. Thanks for linking the Tinkerer build, it does look solid. However one of my goals for the build is to be able to UMD heal scrolls and raise scrolls - The Tinkerer does not meet that parameter.

Actually The Tinkerer DOES meet those parameters or i would not have suggested it. My guess is that you failed to fully look at the accompanying link in the build that outlined the skills.

Below is the end result if you follow the suggested skill selection:
Balance 6 ranks
Concentration 23 ranks
Disable Device 23 ranks
Open Lock 4 ranks
Search 23 ranks
Spot 7.5 ranks
Use Magic Device 23 ranks
Plus 6 other skills at 4 ranks each.

23 ranks into UMD is more than adequate to accomplish your stated goals, so I fail to see how you deem this as not meeting the stated "parameter"

The ability to wand whip a few low level wands (while novel as low levels) isn't enough to justify choosing a suboptimal race for a perma death group that allows the use of raise dead scrolls. The WF innate immunities and their ability to self heal far quicker than a fleshling can save a group from a otherwise catastrophic situation many more times than ability to perform a simple wand whip ever could. Not to mention that with UMD the WF will also be able to wand whip if need be.

In the end, you just choose to put on your blinders and not fully look at all the aspects due to your admitted

I am racist towards WF arcanes

[Ainimache]

Actually The Tinkerer DOES meet those parameters or i would not have suggested it. My guess is that you failed to fully look at the accompanying link in the build that outlined the skills.

Below is the end result if you follow the suggested skill selection:
Balance 6 ranks
Concentration 23 ranks
Disable Device 23 ranks
Open Lock 4 ranks
Search 23 ranks
Spot 7.5 ranks
Use Magic Device 23 ranks
Plus 6 other skills at 4 ranks each.

23 ranks into UMD is more than adequate to accomplish your stated goals, so I fail to see how you deem this as not meeting the stated "parameter"

I think he didn't like it because that 23 UMD is at level 20, and he needs to be able to use healing wands/scrolls at much lower levels.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

@Mangloid

I apologize for not clarifying, the half-elf feat lets me use healing wands at the earliest stages of the game, enabling the group to not worry quite so much if a cleric or fvs is not available. While the Tinkerer build does have the UMD, and in fact has HIGHER UMD than my build at level 20, it does not help me GET to level 20. Also dumping spot is not an option for a PD rogue, as most of us in my guild ONLY play PD and so do not know where al the traps in various quests are beyond say GH for example.

I know it may seem like not going WF is giving up alot, and at end game it probably is, but in the early levels this half elf cleric feat is HUGE. My wizard was the healer for an entire catacombs run, as well as a few follow on quests. Honestly going WF for self-healing for me does not outwiegh giving up my ability to heal the party at lower levels.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

I think he didn't like it because that 23 UMD is at level 20, and he needs to be able to use healing wands/scrolls at much lower levels.

This is it exactly. Having the half-elf feat has prevented at least 3 guildies from rerolling.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Actually The Tinkerer DOES meet those parameters or i would not have suggested it. My guess is that you failed to fully look at the accompanying link in the build that outlined the skills.

Below is the end result if you follow the suggested skill selection:
Balance 6 ranks
Concentration 23 ranks
Disable Device 23 ranks
Open Lock 4 ranks
Search 23 ranks
Spot 7.5 ranks
Use Magic Device 23 ranks
Plus 6 other skills at 4 ranks each.

23 ranks into UMD is more than adequate to accomplish your stated goals, so I fail to see how you deem this as not meeting the stated "parameter"

The ability to wand whip a few low level wands (while novel as low levels) isn't enough to justify choosing a suboptimal race for a perma death group that allows the use of raise dead scrolls. The WF innate immunities and their ability to self heal far quicker than a fleshling can save a group from a otherwise catastrophic situation many more times than ability to perform a simple wand whip ever could. Not to mention that with UMD the WF will also be able to wand whip if need be.

In the end, you just choose to put on your blinders and not fully look at all the aspects due to your admitted

Do you play permadeath?

[Mangloid]

@Mangloid

I apologize for not clarifying, the half-elf feat lets me use healing wands at the earliest stages of the game, enabling the group to not worry quite so much if a cleric or fvs is not available. While the Tinkerer build does have the UMD, and in fact has HIGHER UMD than my build at level 20, it does not help me GET to level 20. Also dumping spot is not an option for a PD rogue, as most of us in my guild ONLY play PD and so do not know where al the traps in various quests are beyond say GH for example.

I know it may seem like not going WF is giving up alot, and at end game it probably is, but in the early levels this half elf cleric feat is HUGE. My wizard was the healer for an entire catacombs run, as well as a few follow on quests. Honestly going WF for self-healing for me does not outwiegh giving up my ability to heal the party at lower levels.

OK, I can understand the not wanting to give up spot, but you have to give up something if you you are going to try and play both rogue and caster. You won't have anymore skill points than The Tinkerer build has. You can't give up concentration, if you do you'll be interrupted and can't cast. You can't give up Disable or well, you can't take down tarps. You can't give up search or you'll never find the trap box. Open lock is as low as you can go. You want UMD for scrolls. So you tell me, what skill do you skimp on since there's no way to get more?

If you're a static group like most PD groups are, it seems like you should be making that ranger (someone always plays one) spot.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Another problem I have with the tinker build is that it was made in 2009...

Archmage is new, and PM is fairly new as well, and so The Tinkerer build has neither. I have never played an arcane, but I believe that the enhancements I took, will cause me to do much more DPS than the tinkerer build, and additionally will make my build more mana effiicient. Simply because Thanimal's build was made prior to the release of these PREs.

Do you disagree? Don't just argue with me because I disagreed with you about the value of going half-elf over WF, actually look at my feat and enhancement selection, please. That is the main portion of the build I am trying to get feedback on.

Thanks!

[Mangloid]

Another problem I have with the tinker build is that it was made in 2009...

Archmage is new, and PM is fairly new as well, and so The Tinkerer build has neither. I have never played an arcane, but I believe that the enhancements I took, will cause me to do much more DPS than the tinkerer build, and additionally will make my build more mana effiicient. Simply because Thanimal's build was made prior to the release of these PREs.

Do you disagree? Don't just argue with me because I disagreed with you about the value of going half-elf over WF, actually look at my feat and enhancement selection, please. That is the main portion of the build I am trying to get feedback on.

Thanks!

Yes, his build was made prior to the new pre's. However since you are trying to cover TWO roles and not just one you'll need all the feats listed on that build to adequately fulfill BOTH roles. You simply can not fit in all the Arch Mage required feats while dropping two wizard levels. With two levels of Wiz missing spell pen becomes more desirable than any spell focus feat.

As I stated earlier, trying to fulfill the arch mage requirements at LOW levels (NOTICE I SAID LOW) actually causes a decrease in DPS. You're spells won't be amped up as high as they could be due to trying to fulfill the Arch Mage required enhancements.

If you're worried about maximizing DPS and being the best caster, then you should not be taking rogue levels. Adding rogue levels is all about adding extra utility to a group. There is always some give and take. You can't have everything :P

[Talltale-Storyteller]

OK, I can understand the not wanting to give up spot, but you have to give up something if you you are going to try and play both rogue and caster. You won't have anymore skill points than The Tinkerer build has. You can't give up concentration, if you do you'll be interrupted and can't cast. You can't give up Disable or well, you can't take down tarps. You can't give up search or you'll never find the trap box. Open lock is as low as you can go. You want UMD for scrolls. So you tell me, what skill do you skimp on since there's no way to get more?

If you're a static group like most PD groups are, it seems like you should be making that ranger (someone always plays one) spot.

This is not a static group toon, I play in a the PD guild listed in my sig.

If you look at my build you'll see I skimped out partly on UMD and partly on Conc. My UMD at lvl 20 (minus any gear bonuses) is 17 and my concentration is 20. I am not familiar with the umd costs of heal or raise, so I am hoping that is enough, especially after equipping VotM, cha item, and skill boosts. If you read the OP my first staement after the build was posted is why I took half-elf, and also a question asking for advice on what rank my umd needs to be to reach my stated goals.

[Garix]

Respeced my WF Wiz/Rog into the full Archmage line, 3 days later I then respeced out most of the AM levels. I found it just to expensive in AP's to keep the all the other enhancements I wanted but YMMV with it.

The only real thing I would change is move your 2nd rogue level to level 9, you want/need/pray for firewall as soon as possible.

No expert in PD play but would guess that a well specced CC mage will be a very welcome asset.

Good luck with your build

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Yes, his build was made prior to the new pre's. However since you are trying to cove TWO roles and not just one you'll need all the feats listed on that build to adequately fulfill BOTH roles. You simply can not fit in all the Arch Mage required feats while dropping two wizard levels. With two levels of Wiz missing spell pen becomes more desirable than any spell focus feat.

As I stated earlier, trying to fulfill the arch mage requirements at LOW levels (NOTICE I SAID LOW) actually causes a decrease in DPS. You're spells won't be amped up as high as they could be due to trying to fulfill the Arch Mage required enhancements.

If you're worried about maximizing DPS and being the best caster, then you should not be taking rogue levels. Adding rogue levels is all about adding extra utility to a group. There is always some give and take. You can't have everything :P

Ok so looking at my feat selection and enhancement selection what do you feel I have done wrong, and what would you recommend changing? Not to be argumentative, but its not constructive to have me look at an outdated build and then not make any statements regarding the build I actually posted.


As an aside, I definitely feel the reduced dps in my low levels - made even worse by the fact my first level was rogue, but at those levels I am focusing almost exclusively on crowd control and buffing.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Respeced my WF Wiz/Rog into the full Archmage line, 3 days later I then respeced out most of the AM levels. I found it just to expensive in AP's to keep the all the other enhancements I wanted but YMMV with it.

The only real thing I would change is move your 2nd rogue level to level 9, you want/need/pray for firewall as soon as possible.

No expert in PD play but would guess that a well specced CC mage will be a very welcome asset.

Good luck with your build

Thanks! I hadn't really thought of that as I was so focused on evasion! Will definitely be making that change.