poor play

[DelScorcho]

I'm a little concerned that Khegeld is advocating being nice to people. Everything I know is wrong!

I don't think everyone else is advocating being mean to people (well maybe I am, but thats just how I roll). Most vets in the thread are saying read the lfm and don't join if you can't run that way. These threads always end the same way, with 90 per cent against the OP. This is a classic thread backfire, kind of like me complaining to my boss about my secretary interupting me while I'm trolling the DDO forums.

I don't think this is unneccesarily cruel. The OP is on timer; this is a teachable moment for him. Hopefully he will learn that if he wants to avoid the timer, don't join zerg and /death groups, or join them and actually /death. If he doesn't learn and doesn't follow the LFM, he will be that guy who no one wants in their groups.

[LordPiglet]

Bleh. I think blame here goes both ways. You are supposed to read an lfm and respect the party leaders wishes; on a zerg run you shouldn't later complain about the group moving fast.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have interpreted "zerg" and "/death at the end" as clerics are required to carry and use pots either, especially not in a Shroud. To me, zerg does not necessarily exempt a party leader from, y'know, actually lead.

You can zerg and give basic instructions. "Harry is down to 10%. You want to leave, recall /now/." - does not add any time to completion and is but minimum effort.

Honestly, the times I've been on these runs, the clerics didn't run out of mana.

They didn't waste it throwing out stuff that wasn't needed
Harry was down in the first round in pt 1
Harry down before madstone wears off in pt 5

The last time I was in a Zerg /death at the end grouping, the clerics had 1/2 bar of mana at the end.

Oh, and as a side benefit, these runs are actually more fun at least for me.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Ahem. It would still be the OPs fault. English isn't my native language either, doesn't stop me from reading/writing quite bit better than a lot of native speakers. Its just laziness, what you dont know, you google :P

Exactly, I have a few cheat sheets with Chinese on them and also have bookmarked portugese and italian online dictionaries to be able to do some basic communication as needed as we do have so many players from other parts of the world on Sarlona. If something is in the lfm, I look it up and decide to join or not join based on that. I prefer LFM's that have something typed in it, as it indicates to me the person is trying to communicate their wants/desires.

I join pugs often, and I read the lfm's and ask questions as needed, even if that means going to my online dictionary and figuring out what I need to ask and translating the reply.

In Roving Guns, if we are running the Shroud Raid, it will 90% of the time state /slash death at such and such %, and we verbally repeat this at the beginning of the raid, and again at the beginning of part 5. If we are the puggers in another's raid, we follow the raid leader's rules, even if it is not run how we want to run it.

If people don't read LFM's, I don't feel sorry for them, period. And yes way too many people do not read LFM's. Hopefully a lesson to read LFM's gets learned, or to ask if you don't understand something. Unfortunately, most of those that this occurs to, are like the OP and will seek to blame it on others rather than any shortcoming of, and therefore responsibility on their part.

Now this does not condone griefing, I remember a pug shroud I joined last month, was run by some Brazilian players. The raid leader said repeatedly and in English mind you, that do not hit the lfm as he and several others would be d door'ing out at the end. Well some turd hit the altar before 5 secs had past and right after the leader again reminded everyone while Harry was being killed not to touch it. Not cool in my book, and I wish I had seen who had done it so they could make the short list.

[Healsavant]

Nope, I hold no grudge, I was booted from an edq by kheg when uncle mah bowed out because there was someone he didn't want to run with, I was flagged and ready to roll. Now kheg is no doubt one of the most knowledge and capable people on sarlona, and has done a LOT for me over the years and I have learned a lot from him, and has always had my respect. That being said I'm still not gonna let him %#&$ on me. I feel I'm owed a simple yet sincere apology. And I have never quit a group on kheg, nor stolen anyone from his runs. But like anyone if I feel wronged I have the choice not to party with people until I'm satisfied the issue is resolved. Kheg miss ya bro, wish you were running with me, always an easier run to complete when your in the group.

[dior10276]

I understand zerg, but would you really want all of your healing to leave with 10% left? Would be quite funny if the group wiped with just a sliver left because all healers deathed/out of quest as to not finish. If I were party leader, I probably would ask healers about their plans, if the sorc or bard leaves or a tank, no worries, but the healer?

My 2 cents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vVAnjilaVv]

I don't know, this seems more like the typical lack of a cleric knowing how to push there weight around scenario.

Someone rushes my cleric....guess what...unless the other cleric(s) can fill my spot....they are wiping.....because I am no longer healing.

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!

If it comes between me drinking a mnemonic because people did not give me time to properly rest and me just saying to heck with it, they can die.......I'll still have all my potions as I recall out of the quest. And no I don't care about the rest of the party who had no call in the decision, because they are very capable of standing up to the leader and saying chill out while the cleric regens.

A speed zerg run doesn't mean a stupid, mindless run. Some things you still have to allow if you expect to be a competent leader people will listen to.

[iraiqat316]

To The LFM says it all, they take the risk of clerics not topping off they get what they get. Not a huge problem for me. Read the LFM if you don't like it don't join. Simple as a pimple.

I truly enjoy playing with everyone. I have besmirched a few players, (DMGPERSEC, Kehgeld, Intervention, and a few others) and have made apologies to them.

My advice is to play the game and enjoy it for what it is, a game.

Uncle Mahmood

[Zombiekenny]

I don't know, this seems more like the typical lack of a cleric knowing how to push there weight around scenario.

Someone rushes my cleric....guess what...unless the other cleric(s) can fill my spot....they are wiping.....because I am no longer healing.

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!

If it comes between me drinking a mnemonic because people did not give me time to properly rest and me just saying to heck with it, they can die.......I'll still have all my potions as I recall out of the quest.

You shouldn't have to drink pots if you are someone that should have clicked the clearly marked LFM.

[vVAnjilaVv]

You shouldn't have to drink pots if you are someone that should have clicked the clearly marked LFM.

From what I got out of it it said zerg run in the LFM...what does that have to do with not letting a cleric get their SP back.


My issue isn't with them not getting to recall out at the end. I personally always felt like being able to do that was kind of like cheating anyways LOL.

[Paleus]

Isn't the problem already fixed by the 'blacklist' method in any of a variety of possible scenarios?

The OP didn't want to join a shroud that zerged through and that may or may not have been in the LFM text. Now, after blacklisting the group he won't have to be part of those types of runs.

On the flip-side, the zerg group doesn't have to put up with someone who doesn't read LFM texts (if that is the case here) and isn't up to the challenge of healing a zerg group. Him not grouping with them is the same as them not grouping with him.

If, on the other hand, zerg /death wasn't clearly stated in the LFM and the raid leader did screw things up, then the OP doesn't have to group with people who don't spell out atypical expectations.

The only other scenario where I can see a problem is if the zerg group wasn't sufficient to the task of actually zerging and expected the healer to mana pot chug to carry them through it. In that case, as a healer, don't sp pot chug to carry a group through a quest they can't handle on their own unless you actually want to do that. Again, blacklist and problem solved.

So, in the end, blacklisting people or groups you don't like running with solves the problem of you telling them how to play and them telling you how to play. Each of you will eventually only be able to group with people who match your playstyle.

[TitoJ]

I don't know, this seems more like the typical lack of a cleric knowing how to push there weight around scenario.

Someone rushes my cleric....guess what...unless the other cleric(s) can fill my spot....they are wiping.....because I am no longer healing.

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!

Exactly why I made my own cleric lol...because the age old if you can't find someone who can...do it yourself is so true, especially with demanding, whiny, pouty clerics lol....wait...that's all in my bio isn't it?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Isn't the problem already fixed by the 'blacklist' method in any of a variety of possible scenarios?

The OP didn't want to join a shroud that zerged through and that may or may not have been in the LFM text. Now, after blacklisting the group he won't have to be part of those types of runs.

On the flip-side, the zerg group doesn't have to put up with someone who doesn't read LFM texts (if that is the case here) and isn't up to the challenge of healing a zerg group. Him not grouping with them is the same as them not grouping with him.

If, on the other hand, zerg /death wasn't clearly stated in the LFM and the raid leader did screw things up, then the OP doesn't have to group with people who don't spell out atypical expectations.

The only other scenario where I can see a problem is if the zerg group wasn't sufficient to the task of actually zerging and expected the healer to mana pot chug to carry them through it. In that case, as a healer, don't sp pot chug to carry a group through a quest they can't handle on their own unless you actually want to do that. Again, blacklist and problem solved.

So, in the end, blacklisting people or groups you don't like running with solves the problem of you telling them how to play and them telling you how to play. Each of you will eventually only be able to group with people who match your playstyle.

That's what I am saying.....the games social circles filter things out eventually. I try not to be overly sensitive to things neither, unless somebody does something really heinous I just let it roll of my shoulders......I also love squelching people....that really annoys the he** out of them when they are barking orders at you and you don't respond.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Exactly why I made my own cleric lol...because the age old if you can't find someone who can...do it yourself is so true, especially with demanding, whiny, pouty clerics lol....wait...that's all in my bio isn't it?

I think so.....I haven't read it in a while tho thanks for the refresh

[Chai]

Trying to get someone kicked from their guild is a beach move. The mentality is akin to calling the cops for someone winning a fight you started. "I dont like how you play so I am going to try to cause you as much suffering as possible." /barf

Put them on your noob list and move on.

Why farm everything but part 5 anyhow? Are you collecting tier 1 holy greensteel weapons, but only want to make one of them tier 3?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Trying to get someone kicked from their guild is a beach move. The mentality is akin to calling the cops for someone winning a fight you started. "I dont like how you play so I am going to try to cause you as much suffering as possible." /barf

Put them on your noob list and move on.

Why farm everything but part 5 anyhow? Are you collecting tier 1 holy greensteel weapons, but only want to make one of them tier 3?

There is nothing wrong with bringing something up to a guild leader if it's an actual important issue......sensitivities vary upon player tho soooo......personally I would rather do half the work....squelch and add them to my list and be done with it rather than having a pow wow with the guild as well.

I can think of one guild in particular that I absolutely hate and detest who happen to have one of my favorite players in it.

I have a question tho for the OP...were you one of the clerics or are you just speaking on their behalf, and if so did you know for a fact they were upset about the issue...sorry I haven't scanned the whole thread yet.

One thing I know for sure....it's never worth speaking on someone else's behalf because YOU think it's the right thing to do.

[mws2970]

Why farm everything but part 5 anyhow? Are you collecting tier 1 holy greensteel weapons, but only want to make one of them tier 3?

I see lots of LFM's up farming part 1 for the shard.

[TitoJ]

My final opinion would be that, given I haven't played them all to 20, I've played every class in the game to at least 14, aside from fvs and monk, and I've heard all the classic crying over every class. Throughout all that I have come across an immense amount more of clerics who demand you go slow, than zergers who demand you speed up.

If the lfm says Zerg, just do it man....we listen to you cry all the time, I listen to myself cry when I play my cleric, and I take the brunt of it when my healing does lousy in zergs too.

I think the least you can do is try to go as fast as you can blaze through, and try your doggone hardest to do everything you can to keep everyone healed, no matter what...if the lfm says Zerg. If you feel like you gotta drink an sp pot...just do it and shut up! I mean what else were you gonna do with that pot? Save it for later? Did you waste a lot of plat buying those things? I'm sorry, *** else were you gonna do with that plat? Pay your mortgage?

I mean I've stood back and watched noobs hack through mobs, when I could have been light years ahead of them, just because that's what the group wanted to stay together... give them zergers a break on their own lfm's yo!

[Gunga]

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!

Please understand that healers are not at such a premium that you can supercede the group leader and run the raid as you see fit.

It would be helpful for you to take notice that really good healers are difficult to keep up with. If you are lagging behind, deliberately taking your time to impose your will on the group, you might not be in the "really good healer" category. That would make your coup of the raid less dramatic and certainly earn you a place on DNG lists.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Once again, since when has the word zerg translated to Mnemonic pot usage required....I think this is a poor expectation......how long does it take to let a cleric top off their mana.....seriously...what were you gonna do with that extra 60 seconds of your life...save it for later?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Please understand that healers are not at such a premium that you can supercede the group leader and run the raid as you see fit.

It would be helpful for you to take notice that really good healers are difficult to keep up with. If you are lagging behind, deliberately taking your time to impose your will on the group, you might not be in the "really good healer" category. That would make your coup of the raid less dramatic and certainly earn you a place on DNG lists.

I by no means was talking about deliberately lagging behind and holding up the group...that's extremely lame for anyone to do.....I mean someone rushing me out of my normal playstyle to the point where I become spastik. If they push that hard then I WILL deliberatly start lagging behind just to annoy them. And yes...good clerics are at a such a premium that they can control the flow of things quite a bit....GOOD ones mind you...not clerics in general.

I think this is totally bordering on the it's all the clerics fault mentality if a group wipes.......a cleric does not have to be super speedy zerger to be good, and a lot of those so called "good fast clerics" are probably that way because they are forced to be to keep up with people who think they are all that and just wade into all their battles carelessly. I have stopped caring about such players a long time ago........you want success.....this is how it works...you follow the flow....not the leader.