Ddo Is Balanced!

[prowessss]

what most pvp haters cite is the lack of balance... But classes in DDO are balanced... They are balanced to work together, not balanced to fight 1v1..

For this reason, I think some kind of PvP system, such as a free-roam area where guilds/groups could compete for farming grounds, could be implemented for fun and intrigue.

[valorik]

ddo pvp is not balanced in groups, just like regular pvp, 12 warforged casters would destroy a balanced party.

[h4x0r1f1c]

My Balance is 40.

[prowessss]

ddo pvp is not balanced in groups, just like regular pvp, 12 warforged casters would destroy a balanced party.

I disagree! I think a well-balanced party would destroy a party of any class.

[Pape_27]

what most pvp haters cite is the lack of balance... But classes in DDO are balanced... They are balanced to work together, not balanced to fight 1v1..

For this reason, I think some kind of PvP system, such as a free-roam area where guilds/groups could compete for farming grounds, could be implemented for fun and intrigue.

such a place exists. form your pvp loving parties, go speak to jackson laws and have at it with each other in a private challenge instance. battle for kills or play capture the flag. so no need to change the game. what you want is already there.

_

[prowessss]

such a place exists. form your pvp loving parties, go speak to jackson laws and have at it with each other in a private challenge instance. battle for kills or play capture the flag. so no need to change the game. what you want is already there.

_

I disagree! I think the current PvP system is incomplete and lacks incentive.

[Pape_27]

<snip>... and lacks incentive.

and thats it, isn't it? PvP is broken/unfair because you don't get something for it? What do you want? A Chest? Renown? Tokens/Ingredients?

Not going to happen. PvP is inherently too open for abuse and exploitation. If thats what you want, i would respectfully suggest that you stop playing ddo and go play Guildwars. It seems to be the type of game that you are looking for.


_

[khaldan]

I disagree! I think a well-balanced party would destroy a party of any class.

Build me a well balanced party, just so we're on the same level, please.

[prowessss]

a well balanced party.

one caster, one ranged DPS (arcane archer or rogue mechanin), two melee DPS, one divine caster, and one wild card....

would have the grit and the versatility to beat a group of casters, for sure. Now of course there is no rule that says a balanced party will do better than a group of casters... It all really boils down to how coordinated the parties are and how skilled the players are... but if i were pugging for a pvp group i would definitely try to fill a balanced party.

[khaldan]

one caster, one ranged DPS (arcane archer or rogue mechanin), two melee DPS, one divine caster, and one wild card....

would have the grit and the versatility to beat a group of casters, for sure. Now of course there is no rule that says a balanced party will do better than a group of casters... It all really boils down to how coordinated the parties are and how skilled the players are... but if i were pugging for a pvp group i would definitely try to fill a balanced party.

How to murder said party:

First off, it's going to matter if it's an AA or a mechanic. If it's a mechanic(lolmechanic), 5 of the casters kill the other side's caster while the 6th goes and dances the divine. After that, clean up the other 4 via running backwards and MM/FM/meteor swarm.

At worst, you'll lose 1 to the other arcane. 2 if the other side picks well and nukes the dancing caster.

If it's an AA, 3 on AA, 2 on caster, 1 on divine. Clean up afterwards.

[prowessss]

How to murder said party:

First off, it's going to matter if it's an AA or a mechanic. If it's a mechanic(lolmechanic), 5 of the casters kill the other side's caster while the 6th goes and dances the divine. After that, clean up the other 4 via running backwards and MM/FM/meteor swarm.

At worst, you'll lose 1 to the other arcane. 2 if the other side picks well and nukes the dancing caster.

If it's an AA, 3 on AA, 2 on caster, 1 on divine. Clean up afterwards.

well, mechanics can build pretty good for PvP.. I'm not sure if you're aware that they can bypass 35% fortification if built to do so... one sneak attack on one of those casters that didn't target him because he's a non-issue or because hide works in PvP (lol) could change the entire flow of that battle... also you're assuming quite a bit about the start of the fight... Say the 6 casters don't know what they're going to be up against... say there are choke-points, tight hallways, LoS blocks, and multiple layers... In this uncertain climate, I, again, would put my money on the balanced party.

Edit--> but of course I recognize that it would be easy for a coordinated team of casters to form a plan to quickly dismantle ANY opposition... but in my 15+ years of pvp experience, a straight up fight where everything goes exactly how you planned it is rare.

Edit2--> also maybe every single person in this PvP encounter is wearing an Ioun... EVERY ONE OF THEM.

[aradelothion]

ddo pvp is not balanced in groups, just like regular pvp, 12 warforged casters would destroy a balanced party.

How about 12 Pale Masters?

[khaldan]

well, mechanics can build pretty good for PvP.. I'm not sure if you're aware that they can bypass 35% fortification if built to do so... one sneak attack on one of those casters that didn't target him because he's a non-issue or because hide works in PvP (lol) could change the entire flow of that battle... also you're assuming quite a bit about the start of the fight... Say the 6 casters don't know what they're going to be up against... say there are choke-points, tight hallways, LoS blocks, and multiple layers... In this uncertain climate, I, again, would put my money on the balanced party.

Edit--> but of course I recognize that it would be easy for a coordinated team of casters to form a plan to quickly dismantle ANY opposition... but in my 15+ years of pvp experience, a straight up fight where everything goes exactly how you planned it is rare.

WF pale master(yes, I know I didn't specify, but I am now) can get up to 225% fortification. The mechanic is a nonfactor in any fight, as are the melee unless every single gets out of position at the same time.

LoS really only helps the WF caster team, as they can just kite melee around a pillar through CC until it hits, then murder them. Choke points do the same.

As for not knowing what they're going up against: It's not hard to figure out what class someone is based on equipment.

[prowessss]

WF pale master(yes, I know I didn't specify, but I am now) can get up to 225% fortification. The mechanic is a nonfactor in any fight, as are the melee unless every single gets out of position at the same time.

LoS really only helps the WF caster team, as they can just kite melee around a pillar through CC until it hits, then murder them. Choke points do the same.

As for not knowing what they're going up against: It's not hard to figure out what class someone is based on equipment.

I'm not convinced :-P I think I'm still putting my money on the well-balanced party. And with new combat feats coming soon to fighters... and of course prestige lines filling out for all classes... WF casters aren't the end-all be-all...

[Superspeed_Hi5]

isnt claiming a thread and telling people to get out rude? seems that way to me and also I would agree with the guy rebutting you. PvP is fine as is with no rewards. After all this is a PVE game.

[prowessss]

The answer to your question, Pape, is in the OP, so you did not need to ask it. And notice that the OP was from me... making this MY thread.


I get it, carebears... no one is ever going to force you to pvp, I PROMISE!!! so none of you need to post in this thread.

My intentions with opening this thread was to discuss balance issues, not bicker about whether or not PvP should be implemented. again, NO ONE'S GOING TO MAKE YOU FIGHT! So go coddle a half-orc.

[Pape_27]

The answer to your question, Pape, is in the OP, so you did not need to ask it. And notice that the OP was from me... making this MY thread.


I get it, carebears... no one is ever going to force you to pvp, I PROMISE!!! so none of you need to post in this thread.

My intentions with opening this thread was to discuss balance issues, not bicker about whether or not PvP should be implemented. again, NO ONE'S GOING TO MAKE YOU FIGHT! So go coddle a half-orc.

if balance is what you wanted to talk about then that should have been in your op. But thats not what your op says.

and no, you didnt answer the question. You avoided it. Just like you did now. If you expect recieve something/anything from pvp (incentives - your words, remember?) How do you stop that from being exploited?

_

[prowessss]

what most pvp haters cite is the lack of balance... But classes in DDO are balanced... They are balanced to work together, not balanced to fight 1v1..

For this reason, I think some kind of PvP system, such as a free-roam area where guilds/groups could compete for farming grounds, could be implemented for fun and intrigue.

competition for farming grounds+fun and intrigue= incentives...

[prowessss]

if balance is what you wanted to talk about then that should have been in your op. But thats not what your op says.

and no, you didnt answer the question. You avoided it. Just like you did now. If you expect recieve something/anything from pvp (incentives - your words, remember?) How do you stop that from being exploited?

_

You obviously have a very limited understanding of what pvp is... Exploitation is encouraged in PvP... I don't expect to stop anything from being exploited... if a pvp area were to be implemented I expect the player base to rape the hell out of it as often as possible... exploit every last drop out of it. that's what PvP is all about...

[k1ngp1n]

Oh wow this is getting good.